God in hell?

[teachccd]

Understanding that God is omnipresent, does His existence encompass those in hell? This was a discussion that was raised in my confirmation class and I explained that God is omnipresent and sustains all of His creation. Even those in hell are sustained by God even though they will experience an eternal absence of His exstence. While those in hell are veiled (separated) from God by their own choice while on earth and remain that way for all eternity, God is still present among them. Any thoughts??

 

[LilyM]

Sounds right … although personally I tend to think that those in Hell are all-too-acutely aware of His presence rather than being veiled from it and, having rejected Him in life, find it simply intolerably painful in eternity.

 

[teachccd]

Sounds right … although personally I tend to think that those in Hell are all-too-acutely aware of His presence rather than being veiled from it and, having rejected Him in life, find it simply intolerably painful in eternity.

Good point!

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Well, I’m a former Confirmation student, and I must say it’s a really bad idea to teach Hell in class. I remember in my class, we were always talking about sex, suicide, death, Hell, and the Rosary…

Whether God is in Hell, I couldn’t say. We can assume that to feel “better” about Hell, or we can assume that He isn’t making us feel more confident about going to Heaven. The choice is yours and your students’ to make.

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood

 

[teachccd]

Well, I’m a former Confirmation student, and I must say it’s a really bad idea to teach Hell in class. I remember in my class, we were always talking about sex, suicide, death, Hell, and the Rosary…

Whether God is in Hell, I couldn’t say. We can assume that to feel “better” about Hell, or we can assume that He isn’t making us feel more confident about going to Heaven. The choice is yours and your students’ to make.

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood

Funny that Jesus spoke an awful lot about hell but I shouldn’t mention it in class. HMMM…

And referring to your second paragraph, my explaination never included anything that would make someone “feel better” about hell. Sorry that your confirmation experience wasn’t what you had expected but the topics that were covered seemed to be pretty relative to our faith…God Bless…teachccd

 

[teachccd]

Well, I’m a former Confirmation student, and I must say it’s a really bad idea to teach Hell in class.
Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood

One additional note: This was initiated by the students.

 

[tm30]

Consider Revelation 14:

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice: If any man shall adore the beast and his image, and receive his character in his forehead, or in his hand; 10 He also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mingled with pure wine in the cup of his wrath, and shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the sight of the holy angels, and in the sight of the Lamb.

The problem, as I see it, is that we all default to heaven and hell as “geographic” places. As if Hell is “down the hall and to the left”. The conundrum this creates is the notion that God, Who is everywhere, created a place He does not exist. That’s an impossibility. God, as was pointed out, is omnipresent.

But there is one thing associated with God, for both sinners and saints - and that’s fire. The same fire that tests and refines the saints, torments the wicked. One results in great comfort, the other results in eternal pain.

So, if the torments of the wicked are experienced in the presence of God and the angels, what does that say about hell being a “place” like we normally think of one? What would be an even greater torment to the wicked - not only to be under the judging gaze of God for all eternity, but in the presence of other humans who chose wisely during their lives and are experiencing the joy of the beatific vision instead of the glare of judgment? To know it can NEVER change - that their will be no salve for their wounds? What rage! What jealousy! What shame! What regret! What torment!

So the fire that punishes the wicked, will be the fire that soothes the saints. Over here, the fire of judgment. Over here, the fire of love. One is heaven. The other is hell.

 

[ateista]

So, if the torments of the wicked are experienced in the presence of God and the angels, what does that say about hell being a “place” like we normally think of one? What would be an even greater torment to the wicked - not only to be under the judging gaze of God for all eternity, but in the presence of other humans who chose wisely during their lives and are experiencing the joy of the beatific vision instead of the glare of judgment? To know it can NEVER change - that their will be no salve for their wounds? What rage! What jealousy! What shame! What regret! What torment!

What an “uplifting” picture!

How “loving” of God to create such a “place”. With “love” like that who needs hate? How “merciful” of God to mete out eternal punishment for a finite “sin”? And you guys are wondering why people do not believe in such a "loving, “caring” and “merciful” being? Why do we find it unacceptable when you say that “God is love”?

 

[Nickkname]

Understanding that God is omnipresent, does His existence encompass those in hell? This was a discussion that was raised in my confirmation class and I explained that God is omnipresent and sustains all of His creation. Even those in hell are sustained by God even though they will experience an eternal absence of His exstence. While those in hell are veiled (separated) from God by their own choice while on earth and remain that way for all eternity, God is still present among them. Any thoughts??

God is not in Hell. Hell is eternal seperation from God.

 

[twb1621]

What an “uplifting” picture!

How “loving” of God to create such a “place”. With “love” like that who needs hate? How “merciful” of God to mete out eternal punishment for a finite “sin”? And you guys are wondering why people do not believe in such a "loving, “caring” and “merciful” being? Why do we find it unacceptable when you say that “God is love”?

Keep in mind these are the views of each person based on their own life experiences and individual teachers presentations in life. No one knows for sure. God is a very loving God and wishes us a place in His kingdom. If you ask how can a God condemn someone to hell for sin if He loves us, ask rather how can a person sin against God if he or she loves Him. And yet, a person need only be sincerely repentant to be forgiven, regardless of the seriousness of the sin. Can you say you would be as forgiving to someone you loved and trusted if they betrayed you as we betray Him? And when it comes to condemnation, it is not God who condemns us, it is we who condemn ourselves. And if a person chooses to live a life of sin, of course there would be judgment…

 

[tm30]

What an “uplifting” picture!

How “loving” of God to create such a “place”. With “love” like that who needs hate? How “merciful” of God to mete out eternal punishment for a finite “sin”? And you guys are wondering why people do not believe in such a "loving, “caring” and “merciful” being? Why do we find it unacceptable when you say that “God is love”?

Sin is not finite to God. It is eternal. And the only way to remove it from God’s sight is through the mercy purchased by the blood of Christ.

Whether or not you believe in God does not change the Truth.

Perhaps you think justice is unfair? How would that make any sense? If we eliminated all justice from the world, you’d believe in God for the sake of hating Him for being so unmerciful as to leave us a world with no justice.

It’s a corner that atheists typically paint themselves into over and over again.

 

[Nickkname]

Keep in mind these are the views of each person based on their own life experiences and individual teachers presentations in life. No one knows for sure. God is a very loving God and wishes us a place in His kingdom. If you ask how can a God condemn someone to hell for sin if He loves us, ask rather how can a person sin against God if he or she loves Him. And yet, a person need only be sincerely repentant to be forgiven, regardless of the seriousness of the sin. Can you say you would be as forgiving to someone you loved and trusted if they betrayed you as we betray Him? And when it comes to condemnation, it is not God who condemns us, it is we who condemn ourselves. And if a person chooses to live a life of sin, of course there would be judgment…

Actually, outside of the Sacrament of Confession, a perfect act of contrition is required to received forgiveness. But within the Sacrament of Confession, an imperfect act of contrition is only required to received forgiveness.

But you’re correct about God condemning no one. By our own actions, we condemn ourselves, for sin separates us from God, and since Hell is eternal separation from God, where will we go if we persist in our sins?

 

[tm30]

What an “uplifting” picture!

If you want uplifting, I recommend a trip to the circus. If you want the Truth, seek God.

 

[tm30]

But you’re correct about God condemning no one. By our own actions, we condemn ourselves, for sin separates us from God, and since Hell is eternal separation from God, where will we go if we persist in our sins?

The greatest act of self-absorption is not self-love. The greatest act of self-absorption is self-hate. People willingingly go to Hell because they are consumed with themselves. Hence the gravity of suicide (though there are often mitigating circumstances in that instance).

 

[twb1621]

Actually, outside of the Sacrament of Confession, a perfect act of contrition is required to received forgiveness. But within the Sacrament of Confession, an imperfect act of contrition is only required to received forgiveness.

But you’re correct about God condemning no one. By our own actions, we condemn ourselves, for sin separates us from God, and since Hell is eternal separation from God, where will we go if we persist in our sins?

exactly…

 

[twb1621]

The greatest act of self-absorption is not self-love. The greatest act of self-absorption is self-hate. People willingingly go to Hell because they are consumed with themselves. Hence the gravity of suicide (though there are often mitigating circumstances in that instance).

Pride and ego

 

[ateista]

Keep in mind these are the views of each person based on their own life experiences and individual teachers presentations in life.

So what? They still keep blowing both hot and cold from their mouth.

No one knows for sure.

Absolutely. So all these are personal opinions - which is fine, except they are full of self-contradictions.

God is a very loving God and wishes us a place in His kingdom.

I have yet to see a sign of this “love”. The posts presented in this thread indicate the precise opposite.

If you ask how can a God condemn someone to hell for sin if He loves us, ask rather how can a person sin against God if he or she loves Him.

How could I love God if even his very existence is just an unsubstantiated belief?

And yet, a person need only be sincerely repentant to be forgiven, regardless of the seriousness of the sin.

I cannot “repent” if I am not sure that I “sinned” in the first place.

Can you say you would be as forgiving to someone you loved and trusted if they betrayed you as we betray Him?

I did not “betray” him.

And when it comes to condemnation, it is not God who condemns us, it is we who condemn ourselves.

Nonsense. No one will commit acts just so he can be tortured forever, and then demand to be allowed to go to hell.

And if a person chooses to live a life of sin, of course there would be judgment…

An unfair judgment. Pick you choice: God is either merciful or just. These are mutually exclusive categories.

 

[ateista]

If you want uplifting, I recommend a trip to the circus.

You mean this is not the circus??? (Just kidding.)

 

[twb1621]

So what? They still keep blowing both hot and cold from their mouth.

Absolutely. So all these are personal opinions - which is fine, except they are full of self-contradictions.

I have yet to see a sign of this “love”. The posts presented in this thread indicate the precise opposite.
See a sign? have you ever truly placed your trust in Him? Thats like saying you don’t see the love in a person for you that you past on the street but do not know to begin with. YOu have to get to know someone to have a relationship with them.

How could I love God if even his very existence is just an unsubstantiated belief?
again, to substantiate a belief, you must learn and know what you are speaking of.

I cannot “repent” if I am not sure that I “sinned” in the first place.
again. learning.

I did not “betray” him.

Whether you did or not is not up to me to determine.

Nonsense. No one will commit acts just so he can be tortured forever, and then demand to be allowed to go to hell.
there are those who knowing or selfishly choose wrong over right and refuse to seak to learn even when the idea is presented to them. Those who knowing do wrong ARE asking for it.

An unfair judgment. Pick you choice: God is either merciful or just. These are mutually exclusive categories.

if your spouse cheats on you but is not sorry and will not commit to you only, are you forgiving and accepting anyway or would you be forgiving if your spouse was sorry for hurting you and commits to dedication to you in a relationship? be realistic on this one.

 

[ateista]

See a sign? have you ever truly placed your trust in Him? Thats like saying you don’t see the love in a person for you that you past on the street but do not know to begin with. YOu have to get to know someone to have a relationship with them.

I am not sure what are you talking about. Do you mean if I ever jumped off of a high cliff, trusting God that he will save me? Or did I close my eyes on a winding road and drive blind, trusting God that he will direct me to my destination? Or did I quit my job, trusting God that he will provide? No, I did not do any of that. And I bet my life savings aginst a red cent that you did not do any of these either.

there are those who knowing or selfishly choose wrong over right and refuse to seak to learn even when the idea is presented to them. Those who knowing do wrong ARE asking for it.

Aha! There is the crux of the matter. “When the idea is presented to them”? By whom? God himself? That would carry weight, for sure. But he is notoriously silent. By you? Why on Earth should I accept that you speak for God? By the Catholic Church? It is just a human institution, created and maintained by fallible men, who do not speak for anyone, but themselves - whether they claim otherwise or not. The Bible? It is just an ancient book of superstitions, obviously written by barely educated people, full of nonsense. It is not an authority about God’s word.

if your spouse cheats on you but is not sorry and will not commit to you only, are you forgiving and accepting anyway or would you be forgiving if your spouse was sorry for hurting you and commits to dedication to you in a relationship? be realistic on this one.

How could I know? It never happened to me. But hypothetically speaking, if she cheated, I would ask myself if I did everything I could and I was supposed to do to earn her love. But responding to your question, if she did not want me any more, I would not punish her. I would let her go, and that would be the end of the story. Maybe my feelings would be hurt, but I would accept that my behavior was deficient.

As I said before, love must be earned, and it is the small things where you can see it. Like helping the ones in need, cure them when they are sick or feed them when they are hungry. Not “subcontracting” that caring to others - as God does.