God in timelss state cannot know what is the current time

[Bahman]

Here is the argument which prove God in timeless state cannot distinguish what is the current time:

1. Time is a concept related to occurrence of events with specific rate
2. There is time attached to series of events and now by definition is the time at which we experience events
3. There are a before and after for the events which means that time has a direction
4. Timeless mind state means, no events, there is no before and after so there is no sense of direction for time, there is no experience when there is no events so there no concept of now
5. God is in state of timeless means, he could not experience creation, he could not distinguish the direction of time, and he could not distinguish now

 

[lakotak]

Here is the argument which prove God in timeless state cannot distinguish what is the current time:

1. Time is a concept related to occurrence of events with specific rate
2. There is time attached to series of events and now by definition is the time at which we experience events
3. There are a before and after for the events which means that time has a direction
4. Timeless mind state means, no events, there is no before and after so there is no sense of direction for time, there is no experience when there is no events so there no concept of now
5. God is in state of timeless means, he could not experience creation, he could not distinguish the direction of time, and he could not distinguish now

So what you are basically trying to convey is that God is not all knowing in as much as he created time he has no control or knowledge of what he created?

“In the fullness of time, God sent His only Begotten Son” Gal. 4:4-5.

Seems to me like he had to know and be aware of time in order to send Jesus
at the right time. “In the fullness of time” seems to lend to the fact that God was waiting for the appropriate time to come, so He had to be aware of time.

Are these ideas coming from a written source or from yourself?

 

[Prodigal_Son]

You assume that experiences are necessary for the existence of a concept. What reason do you have to believe that this premise is true?

 

[inocente]

If you find a reel of movie film, from the days before mpeg, and lay it out so you can see all the frames at once, you still know the order of events from the order of the frames.

God sees your entire life as if it’s a movie laid out like that.

 

[Avila123]

Here is the argument which prove God in timeless state cannot distinguish what is the current time:

1. Time is a concept related to occurrence of events with specific rate
2. There is time attached to series of events and now by definition is the time at which we experience events
3. There are a before and after for the events which means that time has a direction
4. Timeless mind state means, no events, there is no before and after so there is no sense of direction for time, there is no experience when there is no events so there no concept of now
5. God is in state of timeless means, he could not experience creation, he could not distinguish the direction of time, and he could not distinguish now

No 1 to 3 applies to us up until we die. I don’t know where you got the idea that God is in a timeless state and therefore He cannot have a concept or experience of time? Have you read the Bible?

God completed one stage of creation, saw that it was good, then created again (from nothing) and again. Each time contemplating his action before He decided to rest. He spoke to people telling them what He would do in the near and distant future i.e. tells an old man with a wife well past the menopause that he will have many descendents. He also tells prophets about His displeasure at past and present sins.

God is not bound or restricted by time, but that doesn’t mean that He is unaware of how time passes for us. We can’t pigeonhole or restrict God to our very limited and flawed understandings.

Well that’s my view anyway.

 

[Bahman]

So what you are basically trying to convey is that God is not all knowing in as much as he created time he has no control or knowledge of what he created?

A God in state of timeless only is aware of initial state of creation and it is causally separated from the creation, so he neither know the current state of creation nor can interact with it.

Seems to me like he had to know and be aware of time in order to send Jesus
at the right time. “In the fullness of time” seems to lend to the fact that God was waiting for the appropriate time to come, so He had to be aware of time.

This is logically impossible for a God who is in state of timeless since there is no before and after for God in state of timeless whereas as you suggest God first create universe then send his son for salvation which means one event came after another which falsify the idea of timeless God.

Are these ideas coming from a written source or from yourself?

These are my own idea.

 

[Bahman]

You assume that experiences are necessary for the existence of a concept. What reason do you have to believe that this premise is true?

Yes I assume so. How possibly we could construct any knowledge/concept without experiencing it? A world with no experience is a dead world.

 

[Bahman]

No 1 to 3 applies to us up until we die. I don’t know where you got the idea that God is in a timeless state and therefore He cannot have a concept or experience of time?

There are many Catholics in this forum who believe so. The point they are making is as following, that time and things are part of creation and God is outside creation in another word in state of timeless. They however don’t notice that this lead to logical fallacy as it is explained in the argument.

 

[Avila123]

There are many Catholics in this forum who believe so. The point they are making is as following, that time and things are part of creation and God is outside creation in another word in state of timeless. They however don’t notice that this lead to logical fallacy as it is explained in the argument.

That seems odd to me as God spoke from a burning bush which would indicate that he was on the face of the earth. But there again he is not restricted to a physical body. I wonder if it boils down to our need to reason and rationalise even when we do not have the information or understanding to even get part way to the answer?

 

[JerryZ]

The only fallacy is your argument, that because God is outside of time He is somehow cut off from knowing about it.
That unfortunately makes assumptions that cannot be logically proven.

And most importantly you fail to realize that God, CREATED time as well as space and all the matter within it.
The Bible tells us that He can and does interact with us on a regular basis and has done so since the beginning.

–

 

[Dtmccameron]

A God in state of timeless only is aware of initial state of creation and it is causally separated from the creation, so he neither know the current state of creation nor can interact with it.

“Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.”

A world with no experience is a dead world.

What is a dead world? What are you counting as “experiences?”

Whence cometh this “Timeless mind state” and why have you attributed the condition to God?

How possibly we could construct any knowledge/concept without experiencing it?

How much experience have you had being outside of time? Enough to definitively say what it is like, what it must be like?

Enough then even to say that your experience of a thing is exactly how God must “experience (or not)” said thing?

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Yes I assume so. How possibly **we **could construct any knowledge/concept without experiencing it? A world with no experience is a dead world.

(1) Why would God’s knowledge be like ours? No theologian claims that it is.

(2) You assume that we always “construct” concepts. But these concepts are not, for all your saying, given to us in experience. What experience gives a person the concept of “four”? At the very least, you’re assuming that there is no a priori knowledge, which is quite controversial even among atheists.

 

[lakotak]

A God in state of timeless only is aware of initial state of creation and it is causally separated from the creation, so he neither know the current state of creation nor can interact with it.

So are you saying that once God created time, he was not aware of time after that, so therefore, it seems according to you that if he is not aware of time, then he is not aware of his creation, man, animals, plants either? So you are saying that God does not have the power or ability to come into our time and space. If that were so, then you would have to say that Jesus was not divine because He came into our time and space for 33 years. God chose the moment of time in which Jesus was to enter our time; he had to have an awareness of time in order to know the moment in which this was to occur.

This is logically impossible for a God who is in state of timeless since there is no before and after for God in state of timeless whereas as you suggest God first create universe then send his son for salvation which means one event came after another which falsify the idea of timeless God.

What you are essentially saying is that God does not have the power to enter the time and space he created, thus he is not all powerful.

These are my own idea.

 

[revert_jen]

Here is the argument which prove God in timeless state cannot distinguish what is the current time:

1. Time is a concept related to occurrence of events with specific rate
2. There is time attached to series of events and now by definition is the time at which we experience events
3. There are a before and after for the events which means that time has a direction
4. Timeless mind state means, no events, there is no before and after so there is no sense of direction for time, there is no experience when there is no events so there no concept of now
5. God is in state of timeless means, he could not experience creation, he could not distinguish the direction of time, and he could not distinguish now

I’m afraid it does’t prove anything. It has too many holes.

1. 
   *]Experientally, time is not merely a concept. It is true that we can only distinguish time by change, but “related to” is too vague a term to use to prove anything about time in a logical argument.
   *]#2 logically can only apply to those who are subject to time. The fact that we experience a “now” doesn’t mean that it is the only way to interact with time. If you put your hand in a river, you can put it it any place. You don’t have to be floating in the river in order to experience it. However a fish might not understand any other way of interacting with a river, since most other ways of interacting with it would mean the fish was dead.
   *]True, but irrelevant.
   *]God isn’t a being subject to time that merely fails to experience time. God’s existence is outside time–it is not a “mind state.” And it is possible to know of events without experiencing them. It is true that God does not experience a “now” in the same way that we do, but that doesn’t mean He is cut off from time altogether.
   *]This does not follow from your earlier points.
   
   Basically, you are trying to prove that God can’t experience time at all because He doesn’t experience it the way we do. In order to do that, you would have to prove logically that there is no way to experience time besides the one we’re familiar with. You haven’t done that, and I don’t think it would be possible. First, it’s notoriously difficult to prove a negative, and second, I don’t think it’s true.
   
   –Jen

 

[SugarMagnolia]

Perhaps we can all chip in and buy God a wristwatch.

Seriously though, God experienced time through the Incarnation.

 

[Zekariya]

Perhaps God, existing outside of time, could be spoken of having locally “traveled” to different points of his created, time. We know that God appeared to Moses in the burning bush. How God personally arrived at that point in “time” does not really matter. He “travelled” from his place outside of time [ie eternity] to that point in time and intervened.

God does not need personal experience to understand anything. He created all of mankind’s limits and understands them completely.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Here is the argument which prove God in timeless state cannot distinguish what is the current time:

1. Time is a concept related to occurrence of events with specific rate
2. There is time attached to series of events and now by definition is the time at which we experience events
3. There are a before and after for the events which means that time has a direction
4. Timeless mind state means, no events, there is no before and after so there is no sense of direction for time, there is no experience when there is no events so there no concept of now
5. God is in state of timeless means, he could not experience creation, he could not distinguish the direction of time, and he could not distinguish now

First, I think the Creator of Time would know well enough about Time, more than you surely.
As for the problem concerning Creation, God says, “Surely I, the LORD, do not
change” (Malachi 3:6a), so the Christian realization that God is a Tripartite God
helps make it logical that a timeless unchanging God is able to create.
As I understand, somebody correct me if I’m wrong:At the Will of the Father, the Son creates all, by the Power of the Holy Spirit.
Also, God entered into his Creation, into History, Time, and
became tabernacled in the flesh, as our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hope someone with more metaphysics can explain here.

 

[lakotak]

At Pentecost, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to dwell within us. The Holy Spirit is
the third Person of the Blessed Trinity-the one God. If he sent the Holy Spirit to
dwell within us, then, the third Person of the Trinity-God- has to be working within us, all of creation, in time because we are in time. So God does and is quite capable of entering our time and space.

 

[Regina_Love]

When people say that God exists outside of time. What they mean is God is not restricted to the moment of “Now” God can move within or outside of time, because it is a construct which He created.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Here is the argument which prove God in timeless state cannot distinguish what is the current time:

1. Time is a concept related to occurrence of events with specific rate
2. There is time attached to series of events and now by definition is the time at which we experience events
3. There are a before and after for the events which means that time has a direction
4. Timeless mind state means, no events, there is no before and after so there is no sense of direction for time, there is no experience when there is no events so there no concept of now
5. God is in state of timeless means, he could not experience creation, he could not distinguish the direction of time, and he could not distinguish now

What do you think God is? Some human in another timeless state.

The God who creates the universe out of NOTHING. (Yeah nothing at all)

Knows the time in every solar system galaxy and the universe.

He knows that you are reading this right now at a time given it by humans.

He knows what each cell in your body is doing right now.