God is a prankster playing with your salvation

[Singinbeauty]

We are not one faith: Christianity is not a faith: it is a place holder.

Protestants have stretched the word beyond belief, as they have the words faith and belief.

As for the rest, you need to read more church history to get some facts:

Edwin knows a lot about it.

I am sorry you can’t see that we are one Faith.

See, that is what I don’t understand. We have the basics down. We believe in Christ, His sacrifice, His atonement for OUR sins, and the fact that He came to this world of a virgin and died on the Cross. What Faith do you belong to? I belong to Christ.

Oh, I got the facts honey. And they ain’t pretty. Both sides have done HORRENDOUS things in the name of Christ (*shiver) that have given christianity a BAD name. I think you need to take your blinders off. We are talking about HUMAN men doing God’s work. Sometimes they listen to God and sometimes they listen to their own greed and misgivings. It’s bound to happen.

 

[jmcrae]

Christ started HIS church. The Church of His followers. He never named the church …

That’s true, He never named it - which is why we have to do a little bit of detective work.

We see that Jesus placed Peter at the head of His Church, in John 21:15-19. He also promised that His Church would last until the end of time, in Matthew 16:18-19. These are just two of many clues that will tell us which of the hundreds of churches out there are the one that Jesus founded. All we need to do is ask ourselves, “Which of the Churches existing today claims to have had Peter as its first leader?” There is, of course, only one - the Catholic Church.

Of course, then we look into history to see whether these claims are accurate, and we easily find with a quick Google search that the Catholic Church traces its Popes in an unbroken line all the way back to Peter.

See how simple that was?

 

[Palladio]

I am sorry you can’t see that we are one Faith.

See, that is what I don’t understand. We have the basics down. We believe in Christ, His sacrifice, His atonement for OUR sins, and the fact that He came to this world of a virgin and died on the Cross. What Faith do you belong to? I belong to Christ.

Oh, I got the facts honey. And they ain’t pretty. Both sides have done HORRENDOUS things in the name of Christ (*shiver) that have given christianity a BAD name. I think you need to take your blinders off. We are talking about HUMAN men doing God’s work. Sometimes they listen to God and sometimes they listen to their own greed and misgivings. It’s bound to happen.

Child, please don’t call me honey.

Please don’t impute to me the blindness–historical, theological, philosophical–that you suffer from.

Your so-called faith does not concern me. In your abuse of the term, anything goes so long as there is that undefined ‘belief in Christ’ business: sorry, that’s the point of the op: Protestants saying what they want when they want on the basis of that bad palaver leads to the contradictory and self-contradictory claims of the many sects of Protestantism.

Address the op, please.

 

[Singinbeauty]

That’s true, He never named it - which is why we have to do a little bit of detective work.

We see that Jesus placed Peter at the head of His Church, in John 21:15-19. He also promised that His Church would last until the end of time, in Matthew 16:18-19. These are just two of many clues that will tell us which of the hundreds of churches out there are the one that Jesus founded. All we need to do is ask ourselves, “Which of the Churches existing today claims to have had Peter as its first leader?” There is, of course, only one - the Catholic Church.

Of course, then we look into history to see whether these claims are accurate, and we easily find with a quick Google search that the Catholic Church traces its Popes in an unbroken line all the way back to Peter.

See how simple that was?

Kind of funny how you bring this up…

Not funny (ha ha) but funny (interesting). Think of it this way. I, too, can put my religious roots in with the Church that Christ started because I follow the teaching of Christ, Peter, Paul, well you get the point. So, my belief system falls within that line too. Christ’s church HAS survived even though men have tried to destroy it for years - either from within or outside of it.

 

[NotWorthy]

NotWorthy;2629868:

Let’s remember that you can’t group all Protestant theology into one group, as you can with Roman Catholicism.
QUOTE]

I think I see what you’re saying, NW, but we have to keep in mind that there are differing theologies within RCism. Yes, the major league stuff, we’re together, but we’ve got conservative RCs, liberal RC, and everything inbetween.

But you’re not putting a distinction between what the Church authoritatively teaches, and what individuals teach that may be inconsistent with Church Doctrine.

But a good point when put up agains the **thousands **

of protestant theologies.

 

[Singinbeauty]

Child, please don’t call me honey.

Ok cupcake… Sorry, couldn’t resist… LOL

Please don’t impute to me the blindness–historical, theological, philosophical–that you suffer from.

Then why are you here on the NON CATHOLIC forum if you don’t want to hear our side of things?

Your so-called faith does not concern me. In your abuse of the term, anything goes so long as there is that undefined ‘belief in Christ’ business: sorry, that’s the point of the op: Protestants saying what they want when they want on the basis of that bad palaver leads to the contradictory and self-contradictory claims of the many sects of Protestantism.

If you believe that my Faith is wrong then it should ‘concern’ you. Why get all uppity? Telling me that I have no faith brings the conversation to a halt don’t ya think? You aren’t God and you don’t know my heart. But I believe that you mean these things with love but are going about it the wrong way. I forgive you my friend.

Address the op, please.

I thought I did and I was… Have I missed something?

 

[Palladio]

Actually, I put the op in Apologetics this morning, and have asked to have it put back it there again.

I’m not interested in hearing Protestants out on this one, much less in preaching to or offending them.

If they come this way, that’s another matter.

I did not say you have no faith: God knows. I cannot judge you, just your posts.

It is rather that you have the wrong notion of faith, which raises the question of the op itself, but does not address it.

God bless you and yours.

 

[Singinbeauty]

Actually, I put the op in Apologetics this morning, and have asked to have it put back it there again.

I’m not interested in hearing Protestants out on this one, much less in preaching to or offending them.

But how can you start a thread about protestants and their ‘so called faith’ (as you refer to it) but then exclude them from your discussion and not value their (name removed by moderator)ut? It is their FAITH that you are speaking of and grossly misinterpreting.

If they come this way, that’s another matter.

Why? It’s not like I went looking for this conversation. I just came this way and found it. So why, all of a sudden, do you not want my (a protestant) opinion? Seems you want to complain about us but not give us the opportunity to see our side of things.

I did not say you have no faith: God knows. I cannot judge you, just your posts.

Saying that I have a ‘so called’ faith indicates that you think it is fake and has no validity. Hence why I view that statement a little odd because now all of a sudden you are saying that I DO have faith. Consistancy would be a good thing to possess.

Also, just as a warning, please be wary of judging people’s posts because it is hard to get the right sense of what they are driving at on the internet. Just an FYI.

It is rather that you have the wrong notion of faith, which raises the question of the op itself, but does not address it.

I think that it has part of what the OP is about. You talk about protestant faiths and how they lead people astray but then you don’t want to hear the protestant side of it. I see that you just want to keep your views and by not listening to anyone else shows me that you don’t want those views to even budge. That’s ok. Glad you are here and I hope your heart softens to your brothers and sisters in Christ!

God bless you and yours.

And yours my friend…

 

[jmcrae]

Kind of funny how you bring this up…

Not funny (ha ha) but funny (interesting). Think of it this way. I, too, can put my religious roots in with the Church that Christ started because I follow the teaching of Christ, Peter, Paul, well you get the point. So, my belief system falls within that line too.

How so? At best, your pastor’s ordination goes back to Martin Luther (who was not ordained a Bishop, meaning he had no authority to ordain anybody, in the Catholic Church; he ordained himself to that office after being excommunicated from the Church; therefore, Martin Luther does not trace back to anyone except himself), in 1524.

It is more likely that your pastor’s ordination traces back to someone who split off from another church and then ordained himself as the leader of a new church, within the last century or two.

Christ’s church HAS survived even though men have tried to destroy it for years - either from within or outside of it.

That’s true. Today, the Catholic Church holds a membership of 1.06 billion people around the world, and this is in spite of all manner of persecution and propaganda from Islam, Communism, Evangelical Protestantism, etc.

The only thing larger than the Catholic Church is the population of Asia.

 

[mgrfin]

Neither do even the most “happy go lucky” Protestant churches - they just centre their core doctrines elsewhere than in the Gospel.
QUOTE]

Is “disfellowshipping” like excommunication?

peace

 

[Singinbeauty]

How so? At best, your pastor’s ordination goes back to Martin Luther (who was not ordained a Bishop, meaning he had no authority to ordain anybody, in the Catholic Church; he ordained himself to that office after being excommunicated from the Church; therefore, Martin Luther does not trace back to anyone except himself), in 1524.

It is more likely that your pastor’s ordination traces back to someone who split off from another church and then ordained himself as the leader of a new church, within the last century or two.

Ahhhh but we still follow the teachings of the apostles and Christ Himself. So in essence my version of Christ’s church does make sense. I don’t follow Martin Luther. Never heard of him until I got here.

That’s true. Today, the Catholic Church holds a membership of 1.06 billion people around the world, and this is in spite of all manner of persecution and propaganda from Islam, Communism, Evangelical Protestantism, etc.

The only thing larger than the Catholic Church is the population of Asia.

And that is GREAT. I believe that both catholics and protestants follow the same God and Christ. Do you not?

 

[jmcrae]

jmcrae;2631544:

Neither do even the most “happy go lucky” Protestant churches - they just centre their core doctrines elsewhere than in the Gospel.
QUOTE]

Is “disfellowshipping” like excommunication?

peace

No. Excommunication means that you can’t participate in the Sacraments, but you are still a Catholic.

Disfellowshipping (which the Catholic Church does not do) means that you are no longer a member of that religion, and no longer welcome to come to services at their church.

Protestants tend to disfellowship rather than excommunicate.

 

[jmcrae]

Ahhhh but we still follow the teachings of the apostles and Christ Himself.

How can you be certain of that? Especially if you never heard of Martin Luther - if you don’t know whether Martin Luther retained the Apostolic Tradition and passed it on intact to your ancestors, or not, then how do you know it made it safely into your church without being altered in some way?

I believe that both catholics and protestants follow the same God and Christ. Do you not?

No. On the surface, they do look very similar, but the Protestants seem to have actually formed a brand new religion in the mid-1500s. They have developed totally different ideas about God and Jesus than were ever heard of before that time, other than in groups that were known to be heretical.

 

[Singinbeauty]

mgrfin;2632373:

No. Excommunication means that you can’t participate in the Sacraments, but you are still a Catholic.

Disfellowshipping (which the Catholic Church does not do) means that you are no longer a member of that religion, and no longer welcome to come to services at their church.

Protestants tend to disfellowship rather than excommunicate.

I have never even heard of disfellowshipping.

 

[Singinbeauty]

How can you be certain of that? Especially if you never heard of Martin Luther - if you don’t know whether Martin Luther retained the Apostolic Tradition and passed it on intact to your ancestors, or not, then how do you know it made it safely into your church without being altered in some way?

Well since you think that my Christ and my God is false I see no need in furthering our conversation… how sad I feel for you.

No. On the surface, they do look very similar, but the Protestants seem to have actually formed a brand new religion in the mid-1500s. They have developed totally different ideas about God and Jesus than were ever heard of before that time, other than in groups that were known to be heretical.

I will pray for your heart to be softened…

 

[jmcrae]

I have never even heard of disfellowshipping.

You normally wouldn’t, unless it were to happen to you or someone you know quite well. It’s not the sort of thing that gets advertised when it happens.

 

[mgrfin]

Ok cupcake…

Then why are you here on the NON CATHOLIC forum if you don’t want to hear our side of things?
QUOTE]

I THOUGHT THIS WAS A CATHOLIC SITE. It is called “Forums.catholic”.

Sorry, “Cupcake” (I couldn’t resist).

peace

 

[Singinbeauty]

Singinbeauty;2632283:

Ok cupcake…

Then why are you here on the NON CATHOLIC forum if you don’t want to hear our side of things?

I THOUGHT THIS WAS A CATHOLIC SITE. It is called “Forums.catholic”.

Sorry, “Cupcake” (I couldn’t resist).

peace

It IS a catholic site but the question is on the NON CATHOLIC forum of that site… I did not know that it was moved from it’s original forum…

If you thought the term ‘cupcake’ would somehow offend me, it didn’t. I find the term endearing… So thanx!

 

[thechrismyster]

if Protestantism is true. (I know it is false: I would like you to consider the following, which I’ve tried earlier.)

If Protestantism is true, the number of its denominations or sects is extremely high: some say 100, some 500, some tens of thousands.

Consider what a high number would be, on the assumption you are a non-believer trying to decide.

Two would give you a fifty-fifty chance of being right.

Six would be a roll of the die.

Twelve of the dice.

Greater than that and you are in a lottery.

Which is the present situation.

Therefore, God is a prankster–worse than a craps shooter!–less interested in mankind than a Greek or Roman God. He allows anywhere from a 1/100 to a 1/30,000 chance of your salvation.

*But God is neither a dice roller nor a lottery maker. Therefore, Protestants must be wrong.
*

Yet, what is an undecided believer up against?

A Protestant-made Christian lottery Christian in name only: atoms whirring in disordered fragments, every man his own interpreter, his own minister, the Bible open to all…

Lottery or the RCC: that’s the choice.

Jesus left the one true Church to us. Man divided it.

that would make us the gamblers. He’s just the bookie, we make the bets.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

No, I am saying it is a non-believer–atheist or agnostic, as you will–whose commonsense would dictate rejecting the lottery for the RCC: if you want, on a Catholic website, for me to exclude all other religions, too, that would take a few threads, or to prove the truth of the RCC, that would be beside the point, that would take a few more. I am a Catholic because I am convinced that the RCC is true, not because I am simply assuming a perspective, and it would be no small matter, though no very great one, to convince others of this. Some perspective clarify, others do not and can never do so.

The mature etc. person you’ve described is a strawman: you underestimate the ignorance that is so rife it seems a part of the nature of homo Americanus. But to even this strawman I would say: so, you are sure that, breaking away from the RCC directly or indirectly, yours is the protestant sect which is the one true church Christ wanted, even as your very raison d’etre, as a protestant, is to protest, and even as your sect by definition has broken with another sect and thus is in some disagreement with it? You are so sure of it that you can say in good conscience you’ve won the lottery with a 1/100 to 1/30,000 chance of winning?

You seem to assume that protestantism is Catholicism with a difference or two: a gentleman’s religion it is too polite to mention the grotesque shortcomings and works of even as it alligns itself with abortion and gay marriage. These are precisely the kind of by their works you shall know them events that lead Protestants out of the lottery and into the RCC and that lead them to see that they were among the most diverse and numerous culturally determined bunch in Christendom.

Lottery: the odds are, whatever else they represent, not God’s odds, and cannot be.

OK, you misunderstood me: I am not equating Protestantism with Catholicism. I am saying that, to a non-Catholic, the RCC is just another denomination. Thus, to him, there may be no inherent tendency to see the RCC as containing any more fullness of truth than any other denomination.

Thus, your premise is flawed. You can’t assume that all sane people will see the RCC as the only logical choice because of the “lottery effect” that you have concocted.

Peace,
Dante