M
magdelaine
Guest
This is what my sister said to me today. I did have a response for her, but I am wondering what you all have to say to this? How would you respond?
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LilyM
Guest
Umm, yeah, God is always present in my heart, like my parents are. They still do like me to visit them at their house occasionally though, even if I can talk to them without doing so. And so does He.
Nowhere else but in a tabernacle is Jesus still PHYSICALLY and LITERALLY present among us - that is the unique gift he gave us at the Last Supper. And that’s the main way he fulfils his promise at the end of Matthew’s Gospel to be with us always, even to the end of the world.
G
Genesis315
Guest
Well, if you refuse to go to Mass you expell the Holy Spirit from within you.
Second God wants you to go to Mass.
Third, Jesus is present in the flesh at Mass.
Fourth, God grants His graces through the sacraments so you have to go to Mass to receive grace.
Fifth, you exercise the royal priesthood bestowed on all believers when you participate in the Sacrifice of the Mass in union with the ordained Priest.
Need I go on
Second God wants you to go to Mass.
Third, Jesus is present in the flesh at Mass.
Fourth, God grants His graces through the sacraments so you have to go to Mass to receive grace.
Fifth, you exercise the royal priesthood bestowed on all believers when you participate in the Sacrifice of the Mass in union with the ordained Priest.
Need I go on
M
magdelaine
Guest
I think that she has been poorly catechized. I also think that she is the victim of relativistic/new age/liberal ideologies.
In that sense, she is a Catholic in name only. I am trying to come up with arguments that would pierce through this faulty thinking…
I like pointing out that she is participating in the royal priesthood when she attends Mass. That has some resonance with me; I was considering that maybe S. Hahn’s The Lamb’s Supper may be a good book for her.
In that sense, she is a Catholic in name only. I am trying to come up with arguments that would pierce through this faulty thinking…
I like pointing out that she is participating in the royal priesthood when she attends Mass. That has some resonance with me; I was considering that maybe S. Hahn’s The Lamb’s Supper may be a good book for her.
T
teachccd
Guest
While I am a great fan of Scott Hahn, I’m not sure that that might be a starter book for your sister. Does she recognize the Bible as the inspired word of God? See Hebrews 10:25.
If she sees the Bible as inspired then perhaps many here can find useful references for attending Mass. I can but will hold off in the case that she doesn’t use Scripture in which case we would have to regress to the point where she feels comfortable and go from there. God Bless and she will be in my prayers…
V
VociMike
Guest
Nevermind need, she should want to meet God at Mass.
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Nicene
Guest
Scripture does not look favorably n those who “neglect to meet together”
Heb 10:25: not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
We are expected to walk as he walked:
1 Jn 2:6: he who says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
And his habit on the sabbath was:
Lk 4:16: And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up; and he went to the synagogue, as his custom was, on the sabbath day. And he stood up to read;
And since the curtain was torn we now enter into Mount Zion:
Heb 12:22: But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering,
23: and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24: and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel.
25: See that you do not refuse him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less shall we escape if we reject him who warns from heaven.
And worship with all those on the earth and in heaven:
Rev 5:6: And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders, I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth;
7: and he went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who was seated on the throne.
8: And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints;
9: and they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy art thou to take the scroll and to open its seals, for thou wast slain and by thy blood didst ransom men for God from every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10: and hast made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on earth.”
11: Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands,
12: saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!”
13: And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all therein, saying, “To him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might for ever and ever!”
14: And the four living creatures said, “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshiped.
Nuff said.
Peace and God Bless
Nicene
Heb 10:25: not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
We are expected to walk as he walked:
1 Jn 2:6: he who says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
And his habit on the sabbath was:
Lk 4:16: And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up; and he went to the synagogue, as his custom was, on the sabbath day. And he stood up to read;
And since the curtain was torn we now enter into Mount Zion:
Heb 12:22: But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering,
23: and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24: and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel.
25: See that you do not refuse him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less shall we escape if we reject him who warns from heaven.
And worship with all those on the earth and in heaven:
Rev 5:6: And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders, I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth;
7: and he went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who was seated on the throne.
8: And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints;
9: and they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy art thou to take the scroll and to open its seals, for thou wast slain and by thy blood didst ransom men for God from every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10: and hast made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on earth.”
11: Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands,
12: saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!”
13: And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all therein, saying, “To him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might for ever and ever!”
14: And the four living creatures said, “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshiped.
Nuff said.
Peace and God Bless
Nicene
W
water
Guest
B
Baraq
Guest
In the Reformed tradition, we consider it a duty and responsibility of a believer to attend Church. It is a vital part of how we honor the sabbath. An act contrary is rebellion.
From the Belgic Confession
Article 28: That every one is bound to join himself to the true Church.
We believe, since this holy congregation is an assembly of those who are saved, and that out of it there is no salvation, that no person of whatsoever state or condition he may be, ought to withdraw himself, to live in a separate state from it; but that all men are in duty bound to join and unite themselves with it; maintaining the unity of the Church; submitting themselves to the doctrine and discipline thereof; bowing their necks under the yoke of Jesus Christ; and as mutual members of the same body, serving to the edification of the brethren, according to the talents God has given them. And that this may be the more effectually observed, it is the duty of all believers, according to the word of God, to separate themselves from all those who do not belong to the Church, and to join themselves to this congregation, wheresoever God hath established it, even though the magistrates and edicts of princes were against it, yea, though they should suffer death or any other corporal punishment. Therefore all those, who separate themselves from the same, or do not join themselves to it, act contrary to the ordinance of God.
From the Heidleberg Catechism
What doth God require in the fourth commandment?
Answer. First, that the ministry of the gospel and the schools be [a] maintained; and that I, especially on the sabbath, ** that is, on the day of rest, [c] diligently frequent [d] the church of God, to hear his word, to use the sacraments, [e] publicly to call upon the Lord, and contribute to the relief of the [f] poor, as becomes a christian. Secondly, that all the days of my life I cease from my evil works, and yield myself to the Lord, to work by his Holy Spirit in me: and thus [g] begin in this life the eternal sabbath.
[a]: Deut. 12:19; Tit. 1:5; 1Tim. 3:14,15; 1Cor. 9:11; 2Tim. 2:2; 1Tim. 3:15
: Lev. 23:3
[c]: Acts 2:42,46; 1Cor. 14:19,29,31
[d]: 1Cor. 11:33
[e]: 1Tim. 2:1
[f]: 1Cor. 16:2
[g]: Isa. 66:23**
From the Belgic Confession
Article 28: That every one is bound to join himself to the true Church.
We believe, since this holy congregation is an assembly of those who are saved, and that out of it there is no salvation, that no person of whatsoever state or condition he may be, ought to withdraw himself, to live in a separate state from it; but that all men are in duty bound to join and unite themselves with it; maintaining the unity of the Church; submitting themselves to the doctrine and discipline thereof; bowing their necks under the yoke of Jesus Christ; and as mutual members of the same body, serving to the edification of the brethren, according to the talents God has given them. And that this may be the more effectually observed, it is the duty of all believers, according to the word of God, to separate themselves from all those who do not belong to the Church, and to join themselves to this congregation, wheresoever God hath established it, even though the magistrates and edicts of princes were against it, yea, though they should suffer death or any other corporal punishment. Therefore all those, who separate themselves from the same, or do not join themselves to it, act contrary to the ordinance of God.
From the Heidleberg Catechism
What doth God require in the fourth commandment?
Answer. First, that the ministry of the gospel and the schools be [a] maintained; and that I, especially on the sabbath, ** that is, on the day of rest, [c] diligently frequent [d] the church of God, to hear his word, to use the sacraments, [e] publicly to call upon the Lord, and contribute to the relief of the [f] poor, as becomes a christian. Secondly, that all the days of my life I cease from my evil works, and yield myself to the Lord, to work by his Holy Spirit in me: and thus [g] begin in this life the eternal sabbath.
[a]: Deut. 12:19; Tit. 1:5; 1Tim. 3:14,15; 1Cor. 9:11; 2Tim. 2:2; 1Tim. 3:15
: Lev. 23:3
[c]: Acts 2:42,46; 1Cor. 14:19,29,31
[d]: 1Cor. 11:33
[e]: 1Tim. 2:1
[f]: 1Cor. 16:2
[g]: Isa. 66:23**
G
Gamera
Guest
Sure, God is always with us — but is he pleased with us, or mad at us? If you sin by skipping Mass without a good reason, God is “with you” and He’s not happy!
R
rwoehmke
Guest
I would wager dollars to donuts that this sister is at least on the fringe of those New Agers who have all sorts of strange beliefs about God. When you are part of the One, you believe that god resides within and to seek Him elsewhere is silly. I say this because the New Age clap trap is very popular in the Southwest.
M
magdelaine
Guest
Awesome article…this is just perfect for her!
S
SPH1
Guest
In Matt 18:20 Christ said that where two or three are gathered in His name, he is in their midst. This is a presence over and above what one has when alone.
Now, the ultimate means of gathering in Christ’s name is the Mass, the only thing he specifically said by which he was to be remembered. I think that in Matt 18:20 Christ was specifically looking forward to the Mass.
God is present in all Sacraments in a unique, real way. Like Moses before the burning bush. Could Moses turn away from the burning bush to go more “direct” to God?
Finally, I don’t think that God is with her nearly to the extent she claims. If at all.
Now, the ultimate means of gathering in Christ’s name is the Mass, the only thing he specifically said by which he was to be remembered. I think that in Matt 18:20 Christ was specifically looking forward to the Mass.
God is present in all Sacraments in a unique, real way. Like Moses before the burning bush. Could Moses turn away from the burning bush to go more “direct” to God?
Finally, I don’t think that God is with her nearly to the extent she claims. If at all.
M
magdelaine
Guest
Yes, I think this is true of her general philosophy, although I wasn’t aware to what extent it had a hold on her until our conversation today. She also believes that humans are harmful to the planet and that there is an “overpopulation crisis” around the corner.
There is population crisis looming, but of the exact opposite nature to what she is thinking; the West is contracepting itself out of existence.
Why is talking to your family about matters of faith so darn hard?
By the way, we are both converts to Catholicism; she five years before me.
M
magdelaine
Guest
M
magdelaine
Guest
Yeah, that’s what I pointed out to her. That is why I go to Mass, why I get up at 4:30 in the morning on a Saturday to sit for an hour with the Blessed Sacrament. I love Him. I want to be with him. (And boy howdy does he ever have lessons for me in those early hours before the dawn!)
If God is nothing more than a cosmic presence, though, doing that must look a little ridiculous. Kind of like “wherever you go, there you are”. “However you worship, you worship the Godhead”.
D
dessert
Guest
Actually i think it might be a good book or something more by him. I am a cradel Catholic Revert and I watched him on EWTN alot at first and love the journey home and saw the truths and witnesses from others, it may take a non family member to get through to her as it did me and my aunts death. Hopefully no one will have to die in her case but I have a sisin law that I want to bring back so I need to make myself available to her to bring her back to mass and I think she will listen and maybe emplore her to haelp me sometimes if you make her seems like she can teach you something she may feel like she is giving back to you. Ask her to read a scripture and tell you what she thinks it means it will get her memory activated again. The memory is there just reinvigorating it again. You know there is a verse that says God ENABLES us to have faith, you know that word from AA can be used as you are enabling her but the Holy Spirit will still have to speak to her and she hear Him. God Bless you for caring so much but it may take an outside person so let her get on the forum too when she visits. Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Dessert
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mlchance
Guest
Jesus tells us to do a great deal for other people. He tells us to one thing for him: “Do this in memory of me.” And what is “this”? To receive him in the Eucharist, which is accomplished while attending Mass.
– Mark L. Chance.
– Mark L. Chance.
J
Jerry-Jet
Guest
If one chooses not to go to Mass they’ll die in a state of mortal sin and go to Hell. It really is that simple.
D
dessert
Guest
I did not think I was in any great sin ither when first returning until I came face to face with the Eucharist did the Holy Spirit work on me. Thank the Lord no one said to me you can’t be here as you have not been to confession, as I still did not think I needed that. When I first went to recieve the Sacrament of Reconciliation I was embarrassed and in fact I didn’t even know what to confess as i had not killed anyone lately. That is just pride speaking but the more often I was in church like the article does say it is a group thing too, I realized these people didn’t kill anyone ither lately and they were all going so I felt part of the group to go and then the Spirit started to work on me and my nice poor priest, I look back, he had to suffer with me through 40 years of sin that I was to bring back was how can he understand but he was a patient soul. So give her some space and let God work with her and it may take a year so be prepared for a lot of pride to pop up and she will say things she doesn’t mean. She may have to disconnect from these friends or you may have to disonnect from her. Don’t let her pull you into the trap as I can tell it is begining to be a struggle for you and being a sister is going to be not a piece of cake. It is from pride that we stop praying so ask her if you can say the Our Father with her just once a day and see if the power of the Holy Spirit is working on her hard heart. I also will pray for her and you. God Bless you too Dessert
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