God is an Atheist

[AgnosTheist]

an atheist, or a human for that matter, who BELIEVES he has the highest intelligence is not only arrogant, but is stupid…arrogance and stupidity is the worse match a human can have … a human who cannot even realize that he does not have the intelligence to understand himself yet brags of believing he got the highest intelligence is simply pathetic.

it is arrogant. but it would only be stupid if you can show this atheist that there is in fact another race of beings (or being) that is more intelligent than the human race.

yes i deny because Jesus does believe in a higher power to whom He is subordinate , which is the Father from Whom the Word proceeds, but who is One with His Word.

lets upgrade the question then…do you deny that the ‘Father’ negatively believes in a higher power than him?

 

[inJESUS]

why not?

An atheist is someone who seeks answers as to whether there is a higher power or not. God does not.

This is not an accusation. Its in your bible which gives the message that the Father is the one and only God.

 

[justinthemartyr]

An atheist is someone who does not believe in a higher power.

This is the same point of view held by that character which Christians call ‘God’.

But Christians would argue that God cant be an atheist since God believes that he is God.

The same Christians who say that for the Atheist, he becomes God in his own eyes.

The only difference between the YHWH Atheist and the human atheist is that the former allegedly created the latter. But for the YHWH character nobody created him. That still makes him an Atheist in his class.

I cannot wait to see you after you have had enough of worshiping your reason. It is your religion.

 

[inJESUS]

it is arrogant. but it would only be stupid if you can show this atheist that there is in fact another race of beings (or being) that is more intelligent than the human race.

i do not need to prove anything to the atheist if he cannot see for himself the limitations of his own intelligence in terms of the universe he lives in…in terms of his own body even…so whomever created this universe is surely much more intelligent than the atheist. If your reply is : but the atheist does not believe someone created this universe in the first place, well my answer is : can he prove it ? the answer is no. So it becomes an argument from silence.

lets upgrade the question then…do you deny that the ‘Father’ negatively believes in a higher power than him?

 

[AgnosTheist]

Agnos, you hardly do yourself or your position any favors here with this bit of sophistry. If we define a theist as one who believes in a higher power, then yes, God must be an atheist because there is no higher power than God (definitionally) and by definition God does not believe in anything, he knows.

Thanks for recognizing the logic of it, at least.

However, a theist is simply one that believes in God. For God himself, such labels as theist and atheist are meaningless and in fact serve no purpose other than trying to remake God in our own image.

Why would it be meaningless? The Bible itself portrays God in our own image. Portrayed as having the same emotions as we do. On many issues the same way of thinking as we do. The same needs as we do (the need to be appreciated and the desire to use servants). And on some rare occassions, even walks the land as we do.

In practice we describe God the way we describe each other. We use the golden rule on him : like “what would Jesus do”?

• God is a King
• God is a Father
• God is a Friend
  etc, etc,

and suddenly it becomes meaningless when it comes to his theistic opinions?

• God is a King
• God is a Father
• God is a Friend
• God is an Atheist

 

[mchale]

The Atheist believes he is God. According to christians and some atheists.

But the statement is not reversable. An insane man might think he is actually a woman. That doesn’t mean that women are insane for thinking they are a woman.

–
Bill

 

[AgnosTheist]

But the statement is not reversable. An insane man might think he is actually a woman. That doesn’t mean that women are insane for thinking they are a woman.

That is true. But that does not contradict the issue i’ve raised.

 

[mchale]

careful. that applies to jesus.

Just a point, but the Catholic Church does believe that Jesus’s human nature was in fact created. It is his divine nature that is eternal.

3000 years ago people have no problem believing that Gods are created. Its just a matter of changing perspectives.

3000 years ago some people might not have had a problem with that, and I imagine that pagans today still might not have a problem with it. That being said, Christians, Jews and Muslims are all pretty much in agreement that God is an uncreated being.

–
Bill

 

[AgnosTheist]

Just a point, but the Catholic Church does believe that Jesus’s human nature was in fact created. It is his divine nature that is eternal.

you said its stupid for a person to think nobody created him. that point of view would apply to YHWH/Jesus.

3000 years ago some people might not have had a problem with that, and I imagine that pagans today still might not have a problem with it. That being said, Christians, Jews and Muslims are all pretty much in agreement that God is an uncreated being.

of course. just saying the fact that it also makes sense to believe that gods are created.

 

[mchale]

you said its stupid for a person to think nobody created him. that point of view would apply to YHWH/Jesus.

Actually not. A human, any human, has a defined beginning. That person has parent’s they can identify and a basic knowledge of biology is all that is necessary to understand that one is a created being.

In contrast, God existing outside of time, has no defined beginning. Almost by definition, it makes the notion of being created a contradiction in terms.

of course. just saying the fact that it also makes sense to believe that gods are created.

The problem here is that such a god is too small. Such gods by definition do not transcend their creation. In most respects they are simply really powerful beings. Bringing such an argument up is pretty much a bait and switch because they do not meet (or even come close to) the Christian/Jewish/Islamic definition of God.

–
Bill

 

[AgnosTheist]

Actually not. A human, any human, has a defined beginning. That person has parent’s they can identify and a basic knowledge of biology is all that is necessary to understand that one is a created being.

its really just a saying, which christians love to accuse atheists with…and atheists would play along. Seriously nobody but the clinically insane would actually believe that he/she are gods.

In contrast, God existing outside of time

“existing outside of time” - its a christian construct that they themselves dont understand. like the trinity. things you wont find as being described in the bible.

The problem here is that such a god is too small. Such gods by definition do not transcend their creation. In most respects they are simply really powerful beings. Bringing such an argument up is pretty much a bait and switch because they do not meet (or even come close to) the Christian/Jewish/Islamic definition of God.

why should it matter? when it comes down to it, the only real thing that matters is what YOU get. Self preservation. Happiness. “Eternal Life”. These things can be granted by a Being powerful enough.

 

[justinthemartyr]

Thanks for recognizing the logic of it, at least.

Why would it be meaningless? The Bible itself portrays God in our own image. Portrayed as having the same emotions as we do. On many issues the same way of thinking as we do. The same needs as we do (the need to be appreciated and the desire to use servants). And on some rare occassions, even walks the land as we do.

In practice we describe God the way we describe each other. We use the golden rule on him : like “what would Jesus do”?

• God is a King
• God is a Father
• God is a Friend
  etc, etc,

and suddenly it becomes meaningless when it comes to his theistic opinions?

• God is a King
• God is a Father
• God is a Friend
• God is an Atheist

God IS, and that is all.

He was before there was anything, therefore God does not answer to anyone concerning anything, especially an issue that does not apply to him.

God IS.

I find it interesting that your “god”(reason) tries to figure a way out of believing in the inevitable. You will either believe in God before you leave this life, OR… the fact that God IS, and does exist, will be more than evident after your life on this earth has ended, and hopefully you will be going where the grace of God still exists.

 

[justinthemartyr]

self preservation, happiness and eternal life?

Is that what you think christianity is all about? that’s a very western world, selfish view of Christianity.

Christianity is about SERVING and LOVING God and others, unselfishly, expecting nothing in return and hoping for eternal life.

 

[AgnosTheist]

self preservation, happiness and eternal life?

Is that what you think christianity is all about? that’s a very western world, selfish view of Christianity.

Christianity is about SERVING and LOVING God and others, unselfishly, expecting nothing in return and hoping for eternal life.

so whats up with scaring people with hellfire? even judaism doesnt believe in that nonsense called ‘hell’. judaism doesnt care about making gentiles serve god. its not a part of the 7 noahide laws.

christianity is all about self-preservation under the guise of ‘love’.

 

[justinthemartyr]

who scared you with hellfire?

if you are going to be in theological discussions in a forum, the topic of heaven and hell, yes HELL, will come up. It is a reality from basic reason. But since your god of reason lacks wisdom, you probably wouldn’t understand.

Are you sensitive agnos?

speaking the Truth, in love can be very bothersome, especially when the person being spoken to does not want to live within the permaters of the authority behind the Truth.

 

[AgnosTheist]

who scared you with hellfire?

oh quite a lot of catholics & born again christians. hell is a favorite christian scare tactic. afterall its you guys who popularized the phrase “BURN IN HELL!”

even pascal’s wager is in effect a wager for not burning in hell.

 

[justinthemartyr]

your whole god of “reason” is all about you, and that is selfish self preservation. all humans have self preservation, it goes against the nature of human beings to not be self protective to a degree.
There is healthy self preservation which includes putting others first, and then there is your self preservation, apparently.

 

[AgnosTheist]

your whole god of “reason” is all about you, and that is selfish self preservation.

all humans have self preservation, it goes against the nature of human beings to not be self protective to a degree.

very true.

There is healthy self preservation which includes putting others first, and then there is your self preservation, apparently.

I agree. Christianity’s offer of self-preservation comes in with the healthy requirement of being nice to other people.

I was just pointing out that a very powerful being can still offer you these things and more. You dont have to exaggerate God.

 

[justinthemartyr]

define “a powerful being”

if you are implying that anything merely human can offer what god can, then you would be sadly mistaken and have not experienced the love, the power and the forgiveness of God.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

so whats up with scaring people with hellfire? even judaism doesnt believe in that nonsense called ‘hell’. judaism doesnt care about making gentiles serve god. its not a part of the 7 noahide laws.

How does that make any sense. If Noahide comes from God to Noah as Jews say, and Gentiles are expected to follow it, then of course Gentiles are following God by following Noahide.

Some Jews don’t believe in Hell. Others believe in like a Purgatory, and Lake of Fire for only the worst of people.

Hell is a place of fire where sinners are punished after they die. Certain classes of people who deny religion receive eternal punishment there (Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Teshuvah 3:5-6), but most sinners are punished there for only (up to) a year (Mishnah Eduyos 2:9; Talmud Shabbos 33a).

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