God is good

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NoelFitz

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Is God good or will be allow some to suffer for all eternity? Yes, God is good and he made creation which is good. Adam sinned but a greater than Adam made recompense for sin. Thus God in Christ is more powerful than sin, and the incarnation, life, death and resurrection has made up for sin. Hence all creation is saved. Simple isn’t it.

Origin believed in universalism, as do many Catholics now. If anyone is left in pain, agony and misery for all eternity, then God, who is all powerful, cannot be called good?

The idea of universal salvation is stressed by Paul.
for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ. (1 Cor 15:22).
Listen, I will tell you a mystery! We will not all die, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed (1 Cor 15:51,52).
As regards the gospel they are enemies of God for your sake; but as regards election they are beloved, for the sake of their ancestors; for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Just as you were once disobedient to God but have now received mercy because of their disobedience, so they have now been disobedient in order that, by the mercy shown to you, they too may now receive mercy. For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all (Rom 11:28-32).
 
Yab Yum

You say God is not a bean counter.

I am trying to move away from the Catholicism I learned in school.

One strike and you’re out.

As hell was very crowded a man was forced to share accommodation with another man who said “My name is Adolf and I am here because I killed 7 million Jews. Why are you here?” The man replied “Because I ate a sausage one Friday fifty years ago”.

We used to have a hymn
By my sins I have deserved death and endless misery,
Hell with all its fire and torments, and for all eternity.
 
Yab Yum

You say God is not a bean counter.

I am trying to move away from the Catholicism I learned in school.

One strike and you’re out.

As hell was very crowded a man was forced to share accommodation with another man who said “My name is Adolf and I am here because I killed 7 million Jews. Why are you here?” The man replied “Because I ate a sausage one Friday fifty years ago”.

We used to have a hymn
Maybe you learned incorrectly?

Was everything you learned about Catholicism wrong?

Are you sure that all you learned was what was truly taught, and that you didn’t misinterpret it?

I’m sorry but as a 50 something cradle Catholic (and the product of an elementary education with the Sisters of Mercy in the 1960s in Philadelphia), neither the Baltimore catechism nor any other religious education teaching for me came anywhere close to the teachings you’re presenting as YOUR Catholic education.

So. . .was I lucky? And you unlucky?

Did I consistently learn correctly and you incorrectly?

Are you actually remembering what really happened, or what you ‘think’ happened which has been colored by heaven knows how many years of reinforcement of something incorrect so that any truth has been buried too deeply or twisted too far?

Can you show me some of your old notes from religion class with all these cute anecdotes above?

I, OTOH, have some of my old copybooks with “God made me” and angel stamps (2nd grade), drawings of the old ‘venial sin smudge on the milk bottle’, etc. Funny how instead of having been given ‘one strike and you’re out’ I seem to have been taught that sin is an offense against God **but **we have Christ who intercedes for us, Mary who prays for us, angels to guide and guard us, confession to make things ‘right’ again, prayers to help us to grow in things like fortitude and temperance, the Holy Spirit and His gifts, Scripture to strengthen us, etc. etc.

I have a feeling that you have resolutely set your face to consider only one facet which you mistakenly think is the sum total of Christianity, and that everything you do or say or think is colored by that view in spite of the fact that you have so many people and so many resources available that actually DO give the fullness of truth and teaching.

Did you ever read The Chronicles of Narnia, The Last Battle?
(spoiler alert)

The Dwarves (who refused to believe in Aslan and not only did not help the children but actually helped their enemies instead), on their death were brought into "the stable’ which contained the entire world, the universe, in all its beauty. The children were able to see all this but the dwarves only ‘saw’ a dark, dank stable. When they were given food and drink of surpassing taste and glory, they only ‘saw’ thistles and dirt. When they heard Aslan roar and pass by them, they only ‘heard’ annoying noise and light. They had all the capacity to see, hear, feel, taste and touch, but they refused to use that capacity and insisted on only seeing, hearing, etc. what THEY determined ‘reality’ to be.
 
Yab Yum

You say God is not a bean counter.

I am trying to move away from the Catholicism I learned in school.

One strike and you’re out.

As hell was very crowded a man was forced to share accommodation with another man who said “My name is Adolf and I am here because I killed 7 million Jews. Why are you here?” The man replied “Because I ate a sausage one Friday fifty years ago”.

We used to have a hymn
Thought # 1: Presumably the hell of sausage eaters is less intense than the hell of an unrepentant genocidal killer by a factor of several bazillion bazillions.

Thought # 2: Hell is the inability to repent. When does this “one strike and you’re out” refusal of repentance happen? Does it take place here on earth only? In some post-mortem police station (You’ll never take me alive coppers versus Ya got me, I did it)? Or does my soul, when seen in its entirety (by God), indicate whether I was a repentant person?

Thought # 3: I am also a Universalist. **However **- a period of infinite time out minus one infinitesimal moment … is still, potentially, a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, **very **long time. In fact, even though we might say that a bazillion years of punishment is “finite” - it is so long that “finite” and “infinite” lose all meaning relevant to how to conceptualize these issues.

Thought # 4: Our God is a just God whom we can trust to do what is genuinely, truly right.
 
YY

Many thanks

#1 The pains of hell are worse than anything we can imagine here on earth - “the flames dieth not”.

#2 All sins against the 6th and 9th commandments are grave matter. One act of masturbation condemns one to hell for all eternity. Jews and Protestants have one commandment against sex, we have two, 20% of the total. If you miss Mass once, without a valid reason, you may go to hell for ever.

#3 Even if one is in hell for a Brazilian years (as Pres Bush referred to a long time) compared to infinity this is less than a blink of the eye.

#4 When you say God is just you mean he makes people whom from before all ages he knew would suffer the extreme pangs of hell for eternity. This means he is not good.

By the way all the world loves a dictator. Hitler, Stalin etc were all loved by their people, otherwise one ended up in a concentration camp or a gulag. If you do not love God you end up in hell. To love God is not a choice it is an obligation.
You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. Deu 6:5
But this discussion is about a God who loves us and died for us. He is almighty and our Savior. He is almighty and came to save sinners.
 
Tantum Ergo,

As a young person, you were educated after Vat II (1962-65). I was educated beforer Vat II.

I would refer you to Ott Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma (1955).

You really make my point. God is good and he came to save us. His death merits more than Adam’s sin condemns. Jesus is our Savior and the creator and Lord of all things. We are a resurrection people.

You wrote
I have a feeling that you have resolutely set your face to consider only one facet which you mistakenly think is the sum total of Christianity,
I believe in a God of Love who out of love created a world which he considered good and he made us a little less than the angels.

In the catechism in school in the 40s I learned God made us to know, love and serve him here on earth and by this means to be happy with him for ever in heaven. That was his purpose. He is almighty, thus what he wants he gets.

We may continue this discussion when both of us are in God’s presence in a few years time.
 
YY

Many thanks

#1 The pains of hell are worse than anything we can imagine here on earth - “the flames dieth not”.

#2 All sins against the 6th and 9th commandments are grave matter. One act of masturbation condemns one to hell for all eternity. Jews and Protestants have one commandment against sex, we have two, 20% of the total. If you miss Mass once, without a valid reason, you may go to hell for ever.

#3 Even if one is in hell for a Brazilian years (as Pres Bush referred to a long time) compared to infinity this is less than a blink of the eye.

#4 When you say God is just you mean he makes people whom from before all ages he knew would suffer the extreme pangs of hell for eternity. This means he is not good.

By the way all the world loves a dictator. Hitler, Stalin etc were all loved by their people, otherwise one ended up in a concentration camp or a gulag. If you do not love God you end up in hell. To love God is not a choice it is an obligation.

But this discussion is about a God who loves us and died for us. He is almighty and our Savior. He is almighty and came to save sinners.
You sound mad.

😛
 
Tantum Ergo,

As a young person, you were educated after Vat II (1962-65). I was educated beforer Vat II.

I would refer you to Ott Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma (1955).

You really make my point. God is good and he came to save us. His death merits more than Adam’s sin condemns. Jesus is our Savior and the creator and Lord of all things. We are a resurrection people.

You wrote

I believe in a God of Love who out of love created a world which he considered good and he made us a little less than the angels.

In the catechism in school in the 40s I learned God made us to know, love and serve him here on earth and by this means to be happy with him for ever in heaven. That was his purpose. He is almighty, thus what he wants he gets.

We may continue this discussion when both of us are in God’s presence in a few years time.
So that I do not misunderstand your position are you saying that a person dying in a state of unrepented mortal sin might still have a chance after death to be saved??
 
YY

Thank you for your clinical pstychiatric diagnosis of me, that I am mad.

Am I mad becaues I wonder will God save all or because I fear so many of us will end up in hell?

I read in Mt 13:40-42
Just as the weeds are collected and burned up with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, and they will throw them into the furnace of fire, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth
.

I raised this issue with a number of priests and at some international biblical conferences. I was told this is a metaphor and also that Jesus used hyperbole and hebraisms. Some Opus Dei priest told me that some will end up in hell, by their own choice, not by God’s decision. It seems odd to me that on our own we can do evil, but not good, for which we need grace.

Basically if God allows anyone to end up in hell I cannot see how he can be called good.
 
YY

Thank you for your clinical pstychiatric diagnosis of me, that I am mad.

Am I mad becaues I wonder will God save all or because I fear so many of us will end up in hell?

I read in Mt 13:40-42
.

I raised this issue with a number of priests and at some international biblical conferences. I was told this is a metaphor and also that Jesus used hyperbole and hebraisms. Some Opus Dei priest told me that some will end up in hell, by their own choice, not by God’s decision. It seems odd to me that on our own we can do evil, but not good, for which we need grace.

Basically if God allows anyone to end up in hell I cannot see how he can be called good.
Mad as in angry.

Ultimately we just need to gather the data then decide what it means.

:rolleyes:
 
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