God is love...?

[englishredrose]

A convenient platitude that does not answer my question.
Suffering is not love. Especially for an innocent 7 yr old boy. It simply cannot be.
If God were just, I would be suffering instead.
Another platitude to try and explain the suffering of the innocent, which *cannot *be explained.
What possible “joy” can this innocent soul be having?
Not for me. It just infuriates me and drives me further away from God.
You mean like the inhuman suffering of this innocent child and his parents?
Who could possibly understand their suffering?
Where is the “love?”
Be honest, 2+2=4 and God does not care who suffers or why.
Both are clearly evident. There is no way around it.

I can’t cope managing all the quotes so bear with me please no worries if you want to understand what I have said as platitudes. I can rest assure you however they are not platitudes in themselves from my own postings to you as I 100% mean what I said using the English Language as what we know it. May be I could find better words but they are the best I have to answer you as best I could Platitudes, they aren’t. They are genuine answers from me of what I experience for myself.

Where is the “love”? The love is in your heart when you are in the presence of God. Its that simple. honestly May be you find it hard to accept simple love as that what it is. Nothing scientific or clever about it. You don’t need to be rich or healthy or anyone in particular to access this love. You just need to access it by being in the presence of God and once you felt that love you have everything and it might sound all like ready given words and answers but you would actually understand better if you can feel his presence. Presence may be a better word the love. I couldn’t have talked about this about 5 month ago even with 25 + years church attendence. I clicked on this year with help and it is so simple and this presence and it is wholesome being in his presence or do you guys say awesome? Nothing platitude-ness about it I can assure you having taken 25+ to find my way of simply being in his presence. ()

 

[packermann]

I’m always reading/hearing believers assert that “God is love.” To me this is a pretty wishy-washy statement, and I’ve never seen a good explanation of what it means.

I understand that it’s a philosophical statement rather than straight word substitution or empirical hypothesis, so I don’t expect anybody to be able to demonstrate that it’s true (although given that it’s so often used when defending a truth claim, it should be).

But in precisely what sense is God = Love? And what is the “logic” behind the assertion?

I think you are presuming that this is the same as saying that Love is God, which is definitely a wishy-washy statement.

It is based on a quote from St John his hist first letter where he wrote that God is Love.

Note, it is not just that God loves. It is that God IS love. Within this statement is the asumption of the Trinity. Within God there is love - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Love existed within the Godhead before anything was ever created.

Also, it means that God is the source of all love. Any love we have towards our spouses or our friends come from God. God gives this gift of love to all, even those who reject Him.

But if we continue to reject God, when we die, then God will take away all capacity to love and to receive love. This is the essence of hell. Hell is loveless, because it is without God. If we say that we can do without God, God will grant to us what we want for all eternity.But no more love at all. If you reject God, you are without love for all eternity. There is nothing wishy-washy about that!

 

[tonyrey]

I think you are presuming that this is the same as saying that Love is God, which is definitely a wishy-washy statement.

It is based on a quote from St John his hist first letter where he wrote that God is Love.

Note, it is not just that God loves. It is that God IS love. Within this statement is the assumption of the Trinity. Within God there is love - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Love existed within the Godhead before anything was ever created.

Also, it means that God is the source of all love. Any love we have towards our spouses or our friends come from God. God gives this gift of love to all, even those who reject Him.

But if we continue to reject God, when we die, then God will take away all capacity to love and to receive love. This is the essence of hell. Hell is loveless, because it is without God. If we say that we can do without God, God will grant to us what we want for all eternity.But no more love at all. If you reject God, you are without love for all eternity. There is nothing wishy-washy about that!

There is definitely precision in your statements!

 

[Ben_Quincy]

Let’s stop the bickering and get back to the topic. Otherwise the thread will be closed and infractions will be issued.

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[JDaniel]

A convenient platitude that does not answer my question.

Suffering is not love. Especially for an innocent 7 yr old boy. It simply cannot be.

If God were just, I would be suffering instead.

Reconman:

What a strange post, for a Catholic. But, I’ll accept your POV. What is also strange is that, like everyone else, I was once 7 years old. I went through two, painful surgeries, one at 6 and one at 10. In neither instance did I ever consider that I was per se suffering. I knew that I was in pain, but also knew that that was as it had to be to fix a couple of old herniations, that, themselves, caused seeming eons of pain. But never once did I place blame on God, or my parents. The thought of unnecessary suffering never entered my mind. I think you are projecting your not-well-thought-out "adult " notions, in this case.

But you might say, “Let’s forget about the 7 year old. Let’s postulate this for an adult, one who can surely rationalize the pain, and also, place blame.” Again, I think it’s a “projection.” I’m now more than a tad older than 6 or 10, and am inhabited by pain each and every day. Still, it is not the same “pain” that those who are prone to project project.

I will tell you that it was never more than I could bear. And, even as a kid, I stood up to it, with rarely a tear.

Another platitude to try and explain the suffering of the innocent, which *cannot *be explained.

And, another projection.

What possible “joy” can this innocent soul be having?

I don’t know - I must be insane or something. Funny, my pain has never stopped my “joys!”

Not for me. It just infuriates me and drives me further away from God.

It’s time to think this through.

Who could possibly understand their suffering?

Me.

Where is the “love?”

I never lost that awareness. Ultimately, I became atheistic, but for so-called ‘rational reasons’, not because of any endurable pain. (As you can see, I’m back home.)

Be honest, 2+2=4 and God does not care who suffers or why.

Yes he does. You are plainly wrong.

Both are clearly evident. There is no way around it.

Shall we reiterate this conversation again? (You might try to locate the book I recommend below and read it.)

God bless,
jd

 

[JDaniel]

There is definitely precision in your statements!

And in yours!

God bless,
jd

 

[englishredrose]

*and talking about children experience of pain and suffering etc.

I had open heart surgery operation when I was about 7/8 and I can hand on heart (oops no pun intended) state I was not suffering. Yeh I missed things and tired quickly etc. It was the old style surgery then aswell not what you get today I haven’t once blamed God then or now for any health issue or any life issue. I have been angry with God at times but never blamed him *God is Love.

 

[jochoa]

I’m always reading/hearing believers assert that “God is love.” To me this is a pretty wishy-washy statement, and I’ve never seen a good explanation of what it means.

I understand that it’s a philosophical statement rather than straight word substitution or empirical hypothesis, so I don’t expect anybody to be able to demonstrate that it’s true (although given that it’s so often used when defending a truth claim, it should be).

But in precisely what sense is God = Love? And what is the “logic” behind the assertion?

Hello again, my friend! I had one other thought regarding the logic assertion behind God = Love. Please consider the following Logic:

God can initially be defined as that which is most important to an entity.

In human living we make the experiences of happiness without losing peace most important, therefore, initially God is happiness without losing peace.

As we make mastering patience and kindness the most important (God), we will experience greater happiness and sustained peace.

When, given nothing, one makes the experience of happiness without any loss of peace in all relationships and self through the powers of perfect patience and kindness the most important (God), one will understand the Teachings of Jesus Christ.

When pondering, given absolutely nothing other than a single celled body, one makes the experience of a limitless happiness without any loss of peace through the powers of patience and kindness the most important (God), one will learn the Mysteries of Faith.

 

[FurtherSuntime]

Exactly.

Yes, the assailant is not excluded. The disorder is part of God’s order.

As it should. You’ve made me see again.

You have figured out a way to do just that. Thank you for sharing it.

God bless,
jd

Your too kind and thank-you on a mysterious matter to begin with. I think many try to grasp an idea and were all different . I feel a sense of freedom in this eventful relay and return same in the good wonder of it all… good days ahead to be sure,

 

[cc42]

Wanstronian:

If somebody has already stated this then forgive me.

The reason why God is love and not some other emotion is because love is the strongest and highest emotion. God being the greatest being is best encapsulated by the strongest emotion and feeling. So God can’t be hate or envy etc. because other emotions are higher and then God wouldn’t be the ultimte being.

 

[aragonjohn1]

God loves all existing things. For all existing things, in so far as they exist, are good, since the existence of a thing is itself a good; and likewise, whatever perfection it possesses. Now it has been shown above (Question 19, Article 4) that God’s will is the cause of all things. It must needs be, therefore, that a thing has existence, or any kind of good, only inasmuch as it is willed by God. To every existing thing, then, God wills some good. Hence, since to love anything is nothing else than to will good to that thing, it is manifest that God loves everything that exists. Yet not as we love. Because since our will is not the cause of the goodness of things, but is moved by it as by its object, our love, whereby we will good to anything, is not the cause of its goodness; but conversely its goodness, whether real or imaginary, calls forth our love, by which we will that it should preserve the good it has, and receive besides the good it has not, and to this end we direct our actions: whereas the love of God infuses and creates goodness.

• newadvent.org/summa/1020.htm

Shalom
Hope that answers
God Bless you!

 

[tonyrey]

God loves all existing things. For all existing things, in so far as they exist, are good, since the existence of a thing is itself a good; and likewise, whatever perfection it possesses. Now it has been shown above (Question 19, Article 4) that God’s will is the cause of all things. It must needs be, therefore, that a thing has existence, or any kind of good, only inasmuch as it is willed by God. To every existing thing, then, God wills some good. Hence, since to love anything is nothing else than to will good to that thing, it is manifest that God loves everything that exists. Yet not as we love. Because since our will is not the cause of the goodness of things, but is moved by it as by its object, our love, whereby we will good to anything, is not the cause of its goodness; but conversely its goodness, whether real or imaginary, calls forth our love, by which we will that it should preserve the good it has, and receive besides the good it has not, and to this end we direct our actions: whereas the love of God infuses and creates goodness.

• newadvent.org/summa/1020.htm

Absolutely superb!

 

[JDaniel]

Your too kind and thank-you on a mysterious matter to begin with. I think many try to grasp an idea and were all different . I feel a sense of freedom in this eventful relay and return same in the good wonder of it all… good days ahead to be sure,

FurtherSuntime:

To be sure!

God bless,
jd

 

[tonyrey]

I can’t cope managing all the quotes so bear with me please no worries if you want to understand what I have said as platitudes. I can rest assure you however they are not platitudes in themselves from my own postings to you as I 100% mean what I said using the English Language as what we know it. May be I could find better words but they are the best I have to answer you as best I could Platitudes, they aren’t. They are genuine answers from me of what I experience for myself.

Where is the “love”? The love is in your heart when you are in the presence of God. Its that simple. honestly May be you find it hard to accept simple love as that what it is. Nothing scientific or clever about it. You don’t need to be rich or healthy or anyone in particular to access this love. You just need to access it by being in the presence of God and once you felt that love you have everything and it might sound all like ready given words and answers but you would actually understand better if you can feel his presence. Presence may be a better word the love. I couldn’t have talked about this about 5 month ago even with 25 + years church attendence. I clicked on this year with help and it is so simple and this presence and it is wholesome being in his presence or do you guys say awesome? Nothing platitude-ness about it I can assure you having taken 25+ to find my way of simply being in his presence. ()

This and your previous post are superb. Jesus told us not to cast pearls before swine…

 

[englishredrose]

This and your previous post are superb. Jesus told us not to cast pearls before swine…

speaking from the heart it did sadly or joyfully take me 25 years to learn and with the right priest at the right time too. Its so simple once we have been shown how by others who take time to reach us? Too simple for many of us to really appreciate and want to build layers on it or something but its literally the simplist ‘thing’ we can do just being in Gods Presence. Some find that so hard. Me, I find worded/intercessionary prayer very hard but I can be in the Presence of God at any time though some times its harder for me to accept that Peace and Love

 

[aragonjohn1]

Absolutely superb!

Thanks : )

God’s love is amazing!!!