God is Love...

[Amazon]

First and foremost I am still New to Catholicism, so please don’t judge me and scream blasphemy, if anything I still need to be conditioned for the proper view of what the teachings of the Catholic Church are. If anything help me, please.
~
God is Love….
That’s what started it all, what got my RCIA director all mad at me, cause after 2 years of RCIA. She asked me what I thought of it, so I said this: “If God is Love then why did in the OT he go and kill people and the flood and all that?” She was like, “WHAT?” Then asked me what I thought of it, and I said, maybe when God was in his infancy when he first created Mankind he didn’t get everything right. “WHAT?” (guess who said that). I mean cause we were made in his image and his likeness. She says that God is Love, and nothing else. I had to correct her and say that God is a Jealous God (Exodus 20:5). Still looking at me in a disappointed look, I said, "Well if we are made in his likeness then it’s safe to assume that the emotions we have, God too must have, so yes God is Love, but God can be angered just like us, so then God is Wrathful, and God is Love. (I’m beginning to think that we are both seeing this in different Contexts, but not sure as to how to explain it to her.) Then I said, that God sent Jesus to learn the Human Condition. Then she says, NO, God is all Knowledgeable, that he doesn’t Learn, he is Perfect.

But my RCIA director says that my view on this disagrees with the Teachings of the Catholic Church.

She said that God was never an Infant, to which I replied, “Baby Jesus”. To which she said that’s different, he was still born with perfect knowledge and all things Perfect.

I said that, nobody understands what God is, and everything that is written on him is based on Interpretation and Inspiration, so I’m giving my Assumption of the matter cause I haven’t been told differently.

I know that Out of Love, God created the World and Us.
She asks me, so why did he create us for? I said, I guess cause he was bored and wanted some entertainment. Kind of like if I’m bored, I will go out and try to do something constructive, again emphasizing that we are made in God’s likeness.

But I am given the disappointed look and told that I’m wrong.
So I am told I am wrong on all accounts and that she’s going to pray for me.
I then said, I sometimes think our windpipe and esophagus should’ve had different pipes, so the chances of asphyxiating on blocked food wouldn’t happen, and that could have been improved on. She told me to chew my food slower.

So am I in error here? How can I better understand this? I mean using my Bible references as listed above am I in error of understanding that God is Love, or is there another way of interpreting this?

 

[BellsMom]

“God is Love…”

To be honest I don’t even know what that’s supposed to mean. It sound nice but seems sort of meaningless to me.

Anyway, good luck in your search for understanding.

 

[david_patrick]

hi, well this is a challenging post…no i wont’ scream nor say bad words because…God is love…(the holy spirit is proof too that God is love)

well that love infuses into my behavior; i chose to do the behavior in free will…free will is a challenging topic/even, Jesus must have lead by his free will to execution; not before, he prays, They will be done… there is a bench mark in the crusicifixion, notice the horizontal wood is criss cross with teh vertical post…could this be perhaps when God and man also meet; human and divine? correct meiif wrong-but it goes to figure that the corpus, image of jesus, in sculpture: does jesus have his eyes open or closed, by the way? if closed-once and it is over…maybe there is a static time ‘photographed’ as a still shot , adn so there is to be observed one sacrifice for the salvation of mankind/ i suppose what might be confusing to me sometimes is the word sacrifice, as in teh old testement to put a bull on an alter, for God…today, 'to sacrifice an animal is not an american thing…wonder waht happed though as to change human history that ‘we’ stopped it all…?

yet i am not antagonist to God…i was thinking just the other day-if to redesign some human conditon…(forgot my evidence of need-i think it has to do with the libedo) couldn’t God have made better designs to avoid seems th root cause of most human-living hells on earth/ but that is going to far then how could i ever be a protagonist to God’s kingdom?

my mind is a labyrynth of solutions and states of being and identities…my sight still dim.
maybe to off set the RCIA issue…if i were there-all i could do is say:“I love Jesus.”

public statements -that i remember i have made…that got a church person to challenge me…was…" God is a monster, if my childhood was difficult…sometiems i feel like a broken clay vessel…" that said in public…in a room full of catholics-did not go over too well…i used to just blurt things out…seemed fair enough in the logic…So, …and i remember another…My RCIA sponsor said if she only had a magic wand, to form a different my opinion…still i remember that i loved to pray before the crusifix…maybe in teh long run -it is the answer despite my own ideas…my eyes are somewhat dim-jesus eyes have clarity…

 

[RinoaHeartilly]

I’m no apologist, but I’ll try my best to explain some points proposed in your post.

God is indeed Love, as in He loves us with all His (infinite) might and being and is quick to forgive if we are truly sorry. We are indeed made in His image and likeness, but we are also a fallen species due to Adam and Eve’s sin, so He does not possess all the qualities or traits and none of the faults that we have, because as your RCIA director said He is perfect. Yes, He can get angered and also become jealous (because He wants our love, and many people in the time of the O.T. were pagans and worshipped other gods or even statues) just like us, but He isn’t wrathful. He is just and won’t do anything out of pure rage without any logic or reason behind it.

In the O.T… I personally don’t take all the stories literally. The Church has specified that the only literal parts in the O.T. is the existence of Adam of Eve (hence the creation of Original Sin), the life of Abraham (the founder of Judaism) and the life of Moses. Theologians have proposed that many of the O.T. stories are metaphors or allegories. The story with the Tree of Knowledge and the Forbidden Fruit is just to show you that Adam and Eve sinned greatly against God, and He wasn’t too thrilled about it. The flood has been theorized to represent the creation of baptism (waters cleansing the people and all that), and the Book of Job (another controversial O.T. book) is said to just be a metaphor of why we should remain pious in the face of hardship, because our worship of God shouldn’t be parallel with our happiness. God wants (well-deserved) love and appreciation, and we should give it to Him regardless of how we feel. Would you deny your Father a ‘thank you’ for something He did just because you’re not in the mood?

God did not send Jesus to ‘learn’ the human condition. He is all-knowing and Jesus was born all-knowing. He sent Jesus so that we could relate more to God on all levels. He knows what it’s like to be sad, He knows what it’s like to be angry, He knows what it’s like to stub your toe, be tempted by the devil, work hard, get a cold, etc. He’s been there, He’s done that.

God didn’t create the world ‘because He was bored’. God exists outside of time, so He isn’t aware of how minutes and seconds pass by like in our dimension, so He can’t get bored, because that requires passing time. He created us because He wanted love and to love someone (well, a lot of someones). Isn’t that why anyone has children?

As for the location of your esophagus, no matter what part of the body you change, the body will always be subject to death. We are meant to die. We’re biological beings that will eventually stop functioning, and it has always been that way, but death actually brings us closer to God. Even St. Augustine (a theologian from the fifth century) proposed that Adam and Even were probably born with already mortal bodies, which would make sense. If we were pure spirits with no body, we’d be angels, not humans.

I hope this clarified some things you were wondering about, but again I’m no apologist and you might be able to find someone else to explain things better to you.

Good luck and praying for you and your RCIA director.

 

[Amazon]

If God is all Love, why create in the first place, why make existence, why go thru the experience, why not just keep it all bottled up, why release it? Apart from God we do not exist, so why create something outside himself so that it can love him back?
Is this “the Mystery of Faith”, that I am referenced to every time the question cannot be answered?

And how do we know the Mind of God, that he cannot be bored?
I don’t think we can. But, is this a teaching of the Catholic Church?
That’s what I need to be saying, are my interpretations in disagreement with the teachings of the Catholic Church?

I believe that if I can conquer doubt, my Faith will increase.
Matthew 14:31 (Jesus and Peter walking on Water)
Jesus immediately reached out his hand and caught him, saying to him, “O man of little faith, why did you doubt?”

 

[RinoaHeartilly]

If God is all Love, why create in the first place, why make existence, why go thru the experience, why not just keep it all bottled up, why release it? Apart from God we do not exist, so why create something outside himself so that it can love him back?

God is Love in the sense that He only has love for us, not that he is the physical embodiment of love. He wanted love, and that is why He released this desire to create existence, kind of like why someone would have a child so the child can love the parent back. You can’t experience being loved by another person by being the only One in existence, just like you can’t experience laughter if someone telling a joke keeps it to themselves.

Is this “the Mystery of Faith”, that I am referenced to every time the question cannot be answered?

I was always led to believe that ‘The Mystery of Faith’ is how we can believe what we believe wholeheartedly (I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but our faith involves some pretty crazy beliefs ), not a fall-back answer when someone can’t answer a question. Whoever is giving you that answer when unable to answer your question should probably pick up a few apologetics books

And how do we know the Mind of God, that he cannot be bored?
I don’t think we can. But, is this a teaching of the Catholic Church?

No, we cannot fully understand the Mind of God, unless He Himself reveals It to us (pretty sure this is a teaching but I cannot give you a reference). The Church teaches that God is outside of time, so He can’t get bored if He isn’t aware of how much time is going by, just like you can’t get bored when you’re unconscious, asleep or otherwise unaware of the passing moments.

That’s what I need to be saying, are my interpretations in disagreement with the teachings of the Catholic Church?

Some of your interpretations are is disagreement with the Church (like God being wrathful and not getting everything right when He made us), but most of it is just a misunderstanding of teachings and a desire for true knowledge.

 

[RinoaHeartilly]

I believe that if I can conquer doubt, my Faith will increase.
Matthew 14:31 (Jesus and Peter walking on Water)
Jesus immediately reached out his hand and caught him, saying to him, “O man of little faith, why did you doubt?”

Your faith will grow when you overcome this. I went through a looong period of doubt last year. I studied and researched and eventually grew in my beliefs. I’m even more strong in my beliefs now then I was before I doubted.

 

[christus_vincit]

If God is all Love, why create in the first place, why make existence, why go thru the experience, why not just keep it all bottled up, why release it? Apart from God we do not exist, so why create something outside himself so that it can love him back?

God did not have to create us. The love present in the trinity between Father, Son, and Spirit was sufficient. However, here we are. This can only be a testament to his great love. He loves us so much that he created us in his own image and gave us his only Son to redeem us of our sins. He loves us so much that every single one of us is invited to share in the divine Sonship of Christ. His love is boundless. It is immeasurable. He didn’t even have to create us, yet he extends to us a share in his very nature. Love can’t get any better than that.

 

[zz912]

First and foremost I am still New to Catholicism, so please don’t judge me and scream blasphemy,

BLASPHEMY!! (sorry, just having fun)

if anything I still need to be conditioned for the proper view of what the teachings of the Catholic Church are. If anything help me, please.

We will help in what ways we can. And you are to be commended for being willing to keep and open mind, ask questions, and try to learn more!

God is Love….

Absolutely! But let’s be REAL clear what we mean by “love”. This is NOT the emotion of infatuation we call love. The “love” referred here is the sacrificial giving of yourself to others. And God is exactly that. Jesus gave everything for us. His entire life.

That’s what started it all, what got my RCIA director all mad at me, cause after 2 years of RCIA. She asked me what I thought of it, so I said this: “If God is Love then why did in the OT he go and kill people and the flood and all that?” She was like, “WHAT?”

You are confusing the emotion of infatuation with love. True love also demands true justice. The people who were punished in the OT and the NT were people who were guilty of great evils. Also, God created all of us out of nothing, and He owes us nothing. We have no legal claim against Him. So if God decides that He will let us be judged for our sins, we have nothing to complain about. We are being justly punished for evil we have done.

Then asked me what I thought of it, and I said, maybe when God was in his infancy when he first created Mankind he didn’t get everything right. “WHAT?” (guess who said that).

This is a major error that many people make. We sometimes think of God as a bigger version of ourselves, and this is completely incorrect. God is infinite and etenal. He doesn’t grow up, and in His divine nature is never young or old. He never tires, nor runs out of energy.

Here is a good example to consider. In just your body, there are approximately 7,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms. God continously, and actively wills the continued existence of every single one of those atoms. He didn’t build you one day, and then stop building you. No, He has to actively will you to exist at all times. Every single one of those atoms is “on His mind”. If He were to ever stop “thinking” about one of them, they would simply pop out of existence. And that is just YOU. Look around and begin to be amazed at how infinite God must be to actively will the existince of everything, continuously.

I mean cause we were made in his image and his likeness. She says that God is Love, and nothing else.

She goes overboard when saying “nothing else”.

I had to correct her and say that God is a Jealous God (Exodus 20:5).

This is not meant in how we understand jealousy today. When the Bible says God is jealous, what it means is that God doesn’t want just a piece of us. He wants ALL of us. He was willing to go on the cross and die for us. He wants us completely. And if we refuse to give our all to Him, it is a rejection of Him because we want to be in control. Plus if something else is taking some of our focus, then we elevate that other something to the status that only belongs to God.

Still looking at me in a disappointed look, I said, "Well if we are made in his likeness then it’s safe to assume that the emotions we have, God too must have, so yes God is Love, but God can be angered just like us, so then God is Wrathful, and God is Love.

Jesus certainly experienced human emotions in his human nature. But God in His divine nature does not change. He IS. So be careful not to make God a bigger version of ourselves. We were made in His image, He was not made in our image.

(I’m beginning to think that we are both seeing this in different Contexts, but not sure as to how to explain it to her.) Then I said, that God sent Jesus to learn the Human Condition. Then she says, NO, God is all Knowledgeable, that he doesn’t Learn, he is Perfect.

Jesus in His divine nature cannot learn anything, as He is omniscient and knows everything. Jesus’s human nature could learn, so that is why He was able to be born a baby who had to learn how to talk/walk/etc. The hypostatic union of Jesus’s divine nature and human nature is a mystery we will never fully comprehend.

But my RCIA director says that my view on this disagrees with the Teachings of the Catholic Church.

In some areas. And I applaud you again for being open minded and bringing your questions and topics here for a lively discussion.

 

[zz912]

She said that God was never an Infant, to which I replied, “Baby Jesus”. To which she said that’s different, he was still born with perfect knowledge and all things Perfect.

She is correct, in that His divine nature had complete knowledge. But His human nature did need to learn.

I said that, nobody understands what God is, and everything that is written on him is based on Interpretation and Inspiration, so I’m giving my Assumption of the matter cause I haven’t been told differently.

True, no one comprehends the fullness of God. We never could. But we can understand some things about Him. And Jesus built us a Church, and sent the Holy Spirit to guide the Church, so that we can begin to understand these things.

I know that Out of Love, God created the World and Us.

Absolutely!

She asks me, so why did he create us for? I said, I guess cause he was bored and wanted some entertainment. Kind of like if I’m bored, I will go out and try to do something constructive, again emphasizing that we are made in God’s likeness.

This is making God a bigger version of yourself. Don’t do that. God was completely sufficient without us, and has no need for us. He made us because He loves us, and wishes us to love Him back. God doesn’t get bored, tired, lonely, etc.

But I am given the disappointed look and told that I’m wrong.
So I am told I am wrong on all accounts and that she’s going to pray for me.
I then said, I sometimes think our windpipe and esophagus should’ve had different pipes, so the chances of asphyxiating on blocked food wouldn’t happen, and that could have been improved on. She told me to chew my food slower.

So am I in error here? How can I better understand this? I mean using my Bible references as listed above am I in error of understanding that God is Love, or is there another way of interpreting this?

Listen to the Church, pray, spend some time with the Blessed Sacrament, read some of the wonderful saints, and listen to the Church. I would also read up on the writings of Pope Benedict XVI, especially his 3 part books on Jesus. He is a world-class theologian and a brilliant mind for teaching.

 

[david_patrick]

God did not have to create us. The love present in the trinity between Father, Son, and Spirit was sufficient. However, here we are. This can only be a testament to his great love. He loves us so much that he created us in his own image and gave us his only Son to redeem us of our sins. He loves us so much that every single one of us is invited to share in the divine Sonship of Christ. His love is boundless. It is immeasurable. He didn’t even have to create us, yet he extends to us a share in his very nature. Love can’t get any better than that.

i like the last sentence/ i was trying to understand the OP/ well all fair is a question that leads to eternal life…that i love in the moment…expand the idea of love by example, well what about love between man and women-same vein of thought-that is love born-a child is born…so consider, the hail mary:" Blessed by the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus." so who was the Father of Jesus? you know the answer, and love’s quandries solved and prophet’s words full filled…the hope of profets, Jesus.
Our future of our time on earth is and will not be easy…but, in that ‘Holy fruit of the womb’ at that moment-God would bend time, itself. Now that is esoteric/ when the angel talks to Mary, the servant of God-that moment changes time, in that, usually the clock on the wall shows , once it happens it is all over/ however, imagine time-itself-bending by the creator’s love for sinners…so, no longer-is time once it happens-being all over , per a specific event-consider time of the event via the angel and Mary-time jumps forward, so to speak; Mother Mary , then, has a title-Full of Grace…i can ask her for anything-i meditate on the first mystery, and i know she is Mother of God (eternally); the art of asking is intuitive-simply recall, remember to ask-she will give it-your deepest need…investigate diving into the goodness of the human being that you are…to sin no more is the desire, while the reality is our sorrow…but dive into mystery…soon by your baptism - if the diving board be argument and answer now leads to confusion/ later there is a loving promise that peace awaits in the waters of baptism-DIVE then!!!/ God loves you…

 

[ccmcmg]

I can’t resist:

ZZ!

:clapping::tiphat::extrahappy:

 

[Phalanx]

If God is all Love, why create in the first place, why make existence, why go thru the experience…** Is this “the Mystery of Faith”?**

And how do we know the Mind of God, that he cannot be bored?
I don’t think we can. But, is this a teaching of the Catholic Church?

Without life there is no death,
without love there is no hate,
without joy there is no pain.
And so on…

From all that i have been learning of our faith since I joined this forum, its best to take a laidback and approach to the church (here wo go…npatrol. Dont take all the mysterious and supernatural things so seriously. At least not at first. Just take in the awesomeness of our lord Jesus’s teachings. What he did and said. Thats the key.

When I try to invest myself further it does me more harm than good. Some of us are just not made to go the advanced course. Im most definetly not, i leave the old testament for people who care.

I dont know if any of this has been helpfull, its been awhile since i’ve posted

Bless!

 

[zz912]

I can’t resist:

ZZ!

:clapping::tiphat::extrahappy:

:tiphat:

 

[TMC]

First and foremost I am still New to Catholicism, so please don’t judge me and scream blasphemy, if anything I still need to be conditioned for the proper view of what the teachings of the Catholic Church are. If anything help me, please.
~
God is Love….
That’s what started it all, what got my RCIA director all mad at me, cause after 2 years of RCIA. She asked me what I thought of it, so I said this: “If God is Love then why did in the OT he go and kill people and the flood and all that?” She was like, “WHAT?” Then asked me what I thought of it, and I said, maybe when God was in his infancy when he first created Mankind he didn’t get everything right. “WHAT?” (guess who said that). I mean cause we were made in his image and his likeness. She says that God is Love, and nothing else. I had to correct her and say that God is a Jealous God (Exodus 20:5). Still looking at me in a disappointed look, I said, "Well if we are made in his likeness then it’s safe to assume that the emotions we have, God too must have, so yes God is Love, but God can be angered just like us, so then God is Wrathful, and God is Love. (I’m beginning to think that we are both seeing this in different Contexts, but not sure as to how to explain it to her.) Then I said, that God sent Jesus to learn the Human Condition. Then she says, NO, God is all Knowledgeable, that he doesn’t Learn, he is Perfect.

But my RCIA director says that my view on this disagrees with the Teachings of the Catholic Church.

She said that God was never an Infant, to which I replied, “Baby Jesus”. To which she said that’s different, he was still born with perfect knowledge and all things Perfect.

I said that, nobody understands what God is, and everything that is written on him is based on Interpretation and Inspiration, so I’m giving my Assumption of the matter cause I haven’t been told differently.

I know that Out of Love, God created the World and Us.
She asks me, so why did he create us for? I said, I guess cause he was bored and wanted some entertainment. Kind of like if I’m bored, I will go out and try to do something constructive, again emphasizing that we are made in God’s likeness.

But I am given the disappointed look and told that I’m wrong.
So I am told I am wrong on all accounts and that she’s going to pray for me.
I then said, I sometimes think our windpipe and esophagus should’ve had different pipes, so the chances of asphyxiating on blocked food wouldn’t happen, and that could have been improved on. She told me to chew my food slower.

So am I in error here? How can I better understand this? I mean using my Bible references as listed above am I in error of understanding that God is Love, or is there another way of interpreting this?

You are asking a lot of difficult questions - questions that saints and sinners alike have asked for thousands of years. Don’t worry about not having all the answers, no one does. Faith is not about knowing the right answers about everything. Just knowing some of the right **questions **is a pretty big accomplishment.

If these worries haunt you, go back and read Matthew 25:31-46. Jesus told us there would be a test at the end, but its not a theology test. Understanding it all is neither possible nor required.