God is NOT as concerned with Individuals as people want to think

[excaliber]

There are some man made Ideas that are popular among Christians,
but are not true.
One Idea is that 100 percent of christianity is in the bible…it sounds good but is not true.

Another Idea is that Almighty God is Concerned with individuals. Sounds Good but is not true.

Sola scripture has caused Christianity to break up into thousands of denominations.

And the Idea that God is equaly concerned with every individual.Has caused athiests…and also people to act as if they have some protection from God…when in truth they do not. Then when things happen to them they are confused.

The point is that popular Ideas that are not true are harmfull.

For example the teaching on gardian angels comes partly from scripture…that part is true…but then man adds all this stuff about talking to them and that they care about you and just all this extra stuff that was never there.

The fact is that God is concerned with HIS will being acomplished, and he is concerned with his people as a group…NOT EVERY INDIVIDUAL PERSON.

This can be proven from scripture.
And by everyday life,and the use of our God given reason.

I hear athiests at my job say…if there was a God why did he let this or that happen…why dosent he do something about this or that evil. And I always hear athiests say that if God gave them a sign then they will believe.

My thinking is that God dose not stop all the evil unless it directly effects Gods will or unless its in the way of something he wants done. He won’t stop it on acount of the individuals effected…simply because he is not concerned with them.

God is also perfectly able to give the athiest a sign to believe…but probably will chose not to…because even I can’t see how this person is of any importance to GOD…so to put it bluntly…Almighty God could probably care less about that one individual.

If we look at scripture we can see that God favored people that he wanted to favor. It would normaly however be a leader…david…joshua…moses… apostle…prophet…not every individual isrealite…not every individual christian.

If people want to believe things that make them feel good, I guess that’s what they will do.

But its not true…why do people ask The Holy Virgin Mary to pray for them…she is closer to God…she is Important to God, and so If she makes a request he probably will grant it.
But if the individual asks without Mary helping God may not grant the request. Now if God Loved every individual soooo much, He would grant a request without a saint also asking him, simply because he cared for that individual.

The truth hurts, But God is concerned with his will being acomplished. Why would he care about you or me as individuals?

 

[Conservative]

Dear excalibur -
I understand the thought process you explained. But God created us - INDIVIDUALLY. And He has a Plan for each one of us - Yes, to carry out His Divine Will - but He has given us “free will”, which means that when we use it (sometimes not for the better) we don’t do His Will. He hasn’t created a cookie-cutter human being, and He cares enough for us that He sent His Son to save us (and undo the mess we made with our own free will - starting with Adam and Eve). If He created / looked at us as one big mass group of humans, then why the individuality (in appearance, personality, mannerisms, trains of thought, health issues, GRACES, etc.)?

Does God care for each one of us? Remember when Jesus hung on the Cross and the “Good Thief” admitted he deserved to be there but not Jesus? When the thief said, “Remember me when You come into Your Kingdom” - Jesus didn’t say, I’ll remember you and every thief who repents (while we know those who repent will be forgiven)…But Jesus was specific. “This day, Thou shalt be with Me in Paradise.”

Atheists? God creates souls - not atheism - though He may send them into a family where they are either taught or later develop an atheistic theory. I don’t know His ways. God doesn’t love the theory. But He still loves the soul He created. And He waits, and He watches, and He offers countless opportunities for souls to come to Him - and, yes, to do HIS DIVINE WILL. How can you think otherwise, when we’re told that at the moment of death, souls are given a final choice - where we’re asked three times to repent (I believe it’s in St. Faustina’s book). We don’t all die at one time. God takes the time - to speak to each of us - to bless and grace us - individually. How does a parent just love a bevy of children as a whole without having special feelings for each one?

If God loved everyone as one big bundle, then why would some saints (like Padre Pio) have the stigmata - and some not at all? Why do some have greater graces or crosses than the next? God has ordained something specific and individual for each of us - and I believe He loves us EQUALLY, watches over us/blesses us individually, and as the degrees of Heaven, Hell and Purgatory evidence by what we’re taught, He rewards or punishes individually, as well. But, as God, He doesn’t need to do it the way we would have to - keeping track of a large family of children scurrying about, for instance. He has His Divine Ways. He knows all. How can we possibly guess or understand Him - aside from knowing He is our Creator, and our Loving Father.

And who’s to make the determinations about Guardian Angels. Maybe they’re God’s Assigned Babysitters (no disrespect meant to my Holy Guardian Angel) - but isn’t that what a parent would do? Who’s to say how much more trouble we’d be in - without a Guardian Angel? These are things we will not know or understand until we die. “Blessed are they who have not seen, but believe.”

God loves us - with infinite powers that we are unable to perceive. And while I agree that He puts us here to do His Divine Will and glorify Him, His Love is for each - not just all - of us. He hears each prayer - and we don’t understand why some are seemingly heard/answered more than others - but God does understand.

I’m no theologian - and my words are long but simple. But I hope in some way I have explained what I believe is the Greatest Gift we have - Our Father in Heaven, His Son, Jesus, The Holy Spirit - watching out for each one of us - and sharing the Blessed Mother WITH us.

 

[beckycmarie]

The truth hurts, But God is concerned with his will being acomplished. Why would he care about you or me as individuals?

What you are saying here is not the truth. How sad that you think God doesn’t care for you individually, especially when God Himself says otherwise.

WHO YOU ARE IN CHRIST
from Victory Over the Darkness: Realizing the Power of Your Identity in Christ
by Neil T. Anderson

Understanding your identity in Christ is absolutely essential to your success at living the victorious Christian life.

I am accepted…

I am God’s child ~ John 1:12

As a disciple, I am a friend of Jesus Christ ~ John 15:15

I have been justified ~ Romans 5:1

I am united with the Lord, and I am one with Him in spirit ~ 1 Corin. 6:17

I have been bought with a price, and I belong to God ~ 1 Corin. 6:19-20

I am a member of Christ’s body ~ 1 Corin. 12:27

I have been chosen by God and adopted as His child ~ Ephesians 1:3-8

I have been redeemed and forgiven of all my sins ~ Colossians 1:13-14

I am complete in Christ ~ Colossians 2:9-10

I have direct access to the throne of grace through Jesus Christ ~ Hebrews 4:14-16

I am secure…

I am free from condemnation ~ Romans 8:1-2

I am assured that God works for my good in all circumstances ~ Romans 8:28

I am free from any condemnation brought against me, and I cannot be separated from the love of God ~ Romans 8:31-39

I have been established, anointed, and sealed by God ~ 2 Corin. 1:21-22

I am hidden with Christ in God ~ Colossians 3:1-4

I am confident that God will complete the good work He started in me ~ Philippians 1:6

I am a citizen of Heaven ~ Philippians 3:20

I have not been given the spirit of fear but of power, love, and a sound mind ~ 2 Timothy 1:7

I am born of God, and the evil one cannot touch me ~ 1 John 5:18

I am significant…

I am the branch of Jesus Christ, the true vine, and a channel of His life ~ John 15:5

I have been chosen and appointed to bear fruit ~ John 15:16

I am God’s temple ~ 1 Corin. 3:16

I am a minister of reconciliation for God ~ 2 Corin.5:17-21

I am seated with Jesus Christ in the heavenly realm ~ Ephesians 2:6

I am God’s workmanship ~ Ephesians 2:10

I may approach God with freedom and confidence ~ Ephesians 3:12

I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me ~ Philippians 4:13

Sources:
Who You Are In Christ
SPCDC Who You are in Christ (pdf)

 

[ruslan]

Yes, He is.

Matthew 6:25-26

25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?

:harp: :heaven:

 

[excaliber]

I tried to quote you but its to long.
the forum won’t allow it.

I understand your thinking, I have thought that way my whole life, until I finaly gave in to the truth.
For example you said?
God created us individualy, that dose not prove that God is more concerned with the individual then the group. Because of the simple fact that God creats dogs and cats and every other animal differently…not in duplicates.
Even snow flakes when put under a microscop are different from the other. God has the ability to creat in this way, and dose so not only with humans. Is God concerned with that snow flake…NO

Your second argument is about Christ. He is the very best argument…and posibly the only argument.
HOWEVER even Christ God, was fulfilling prophecy. Remember when the crouds came to be healed, Jesus ministry was more important then these people.
Also Jesus did not only forgive the thief. He forgave the woman who was a harlot, when she asked…also he stoped the crouds from stoning a woman…did he do this only for those people…I canot judge God. However Jesus did come to change the law, the new law was not going to be so strict.

You made my point for me, when you said ANY THIEF WHO REPENTED, COULD BE FORGIVEN.
And if that thief also died immediately after being forgivin by christ…then he to would have been with God in his kingdom…the
thief in that verse was not special.

Now please before we go on and on about Christ God. Let me please make this point…Christ had a human will and a divine will.
Its possible that in his human will he was crying when his friend laserus died…it is posible that in his human will he did many things like this. That is why arguments concerning Christ will often be invalid…we don’t know if he was using his human side or divine side. But now Christ God is glorified with The Father and The Holy Spirit. And I don’t believe that he struggles with his human side anymore.

I don’t understand why you compare Holy God, of whom the Jews were even carfull not to pronounce his name for fear of him…to a mother and her children? A mother dose not dictate how God feels or acts.

Again you make my point about the Gardian angels. We don’t know. But yet people act as if they do know. I do believe that without our gardian angels, the demons would destroy all Christians.
But dose it not make sence for angelic armys to protect us?

Finaly you say God infinitly loves us…well yes he cares for us…but lets not make it overly romantic.
I think Jesus explained this subject. When he said God notices a sparow that dies. Jesus simly says that humans are worth more then many sparows. Jesus said also that God has every hair of your hair numbered.

So from this we know that God has full knowledge about us. And that man is of more value then his animal creations.

But lets not over do everything.

Anyway we have an Idea why some prayers are granted. It depends on who is praying, and if what they pray for is acording to GODS WILL.

Are you a saint, or a priest? Are you a bishop or the pope? Are you a political leader or rich, or of some great value to the Church?
If your answer is yes, then its VERY likely that your prayers hold more weight…or are higher priority then some one like me.
I would probably need Mary or a saints help to get anything, or a novena or something to get The Almighty’s attention. Because I am nothing, I have to plead for mercy…and mabey IF God feels generous at the moment he could posibly consider it.
But people who are knowbodys like me sometimes have to make VOWS to get a prayer answerd.
Why not just ask if God Loves us just as much as someone more important? See it makes no sence, by making a vow you try to raise your value to God, so that he could become interested in your petition.

To say that God Loves EACH individual Infinitly is to turn a blind eye to everyday reality and scripture…in favor of POPULAR beliefs.

 

[ruslan]

With all due respect and charity - is this a continuation, of sorts, of your other thread about being Jehovah’s Witness and looking for an open Catholic church and being depressed?

You seem to think no one cares - including God.

He does care.

I am just asking.

 

[excaliber]

What you are saying here is not the truth. How sad that you think God doesn’t care for you individually, especially when God Himself says otherwise.

That sounded like one of those once saved always saved books. It seems to have taken every positive scripture in the bible and freely aplied it to every single christian.

This is not true, it takes work to have these privledges. There are different degrees of Righteousness
and dose the bible not say that the prayers of the righteous have MORE weight. So yes if you can take every positive scripture in the bible and apply it to yourself, then you are a saint. And in that case yes you are important.

 

[beckycmarie]

That sounded like one of those once saved always saved books. It seems to have taken every positive scripture in the bible and freely aplied it to every single christian.

This is not true, it takes work to have these privledges. There are different degrees of Righteousness
and dose the bible not say that the prayers of the righteous have MORE weight. So yes if you can take every positive scripture in the bible and apply it to yourself, then you are a saint. And in that case yes you are important.

We are all called to be saints; after all only saints get into Heaven. I’d agree with you that there are likely differing degrees of glory in Heaven based on how well someone used his time on earth to grow in holiness.

But, that doesn’t mean God is talking to a privileged few through scripture and through the Church; he is talking to each one of us individually.

 

[Nickkname]

There are some man made Ideas that are popular among Christians,
but are not true.
One Idea is that 100 percent of christianity is in the bible…it sounds good but is not true.

Another Idea is that Almighty God is Concerned with individuals. Sounds Good but is not true.

Sola scripture has caused Christianity to break up into thousands of denominations.

And the Idea that God is equaly concerned with every individual.Has caused athiests…and also people to act as if they have some protection from God…when in truth they do not. Then when things happen to them they are confused.

The point is that popular Ideas that are not true are harmfull.

For example the teaching on gardian angels comes partly from scripture…that part is true…but then man adds all this stuff about talking to them and that they care about you and just all this extra stuff that was never there.

The fact is that God is concerned with HIS will being acomplished, and he is concerned with his people as a group…NOT EVERY INDIVIDUAL PERSON.

This can be proven from scripture.
And by everyday life,and the use of our God given reason.

I hear athiests at my job say…if there was a God why did he let this or that happen…why dosent he do something about this or that evil. And I always hear athiests say that if God gave them a sign then they will believe.

My thinking is that God dose not stop all the evil unless it directly effects Gods will or unless its in the way of something he wants done. He won’t stop it on acount of the individuals effected…simply because he is not concerned with them.

God is also perfectly able to give the athiest a sign to believe…but probably will chose not to…because even I can’t see how this person is of any importance to GOD…so to put it bluntly…Almighty God could probably care less about that one individual.

If we look at scripture we can see that God favored people that he wanted to favor. It would normaly however be a leader…david…joshua…moses… apostle…prophet…not every individual isrealite…not every individual christian.

If people want to believe things that make them feel good, I guess that’s what they will do.

But its not true…why do people ask The Holy Virgin Mary to pray for them…she is closer to God…she is Important to God, and so If she makes a request he probably will grant it.
But if the individual asks without Mary helping God may not grant the request. Now if God Loved every individual soooo much, He would grant a request without a saint also asking him, simply because he cared for that individual.

The truth hurts, But God is concerned with his will being acomplished. Why would he care about you or me as individuals?

God is love. Refute that.

 

[excaliber]

With all due respect and charity - is this a continuation, of sorts, of your other thread about being Jehovah’s Witness and looking for an open Catholic church and being depressed?

You seem to think no one cares - including God.

He does care.

I am just asking.

No this has nothing to do with my other thread. The JW teach that Gods ORGANIZATION is what he protects…not individuals.

That’s where I first heard the teaching.
And all facts considerd it makes sence.
Do you have proof that its not true?

 

[ruslan]

No this has nothing to do with my other thread. The JW teach that Gods ORGANIZATION is what he protects…not individuals.

That’s where I first heard the teaching.
And all facts considerd it makes sence.
Do you have proof that its not true?

I am not trying to prove anything to you - I merely asked you a question.

If you want to believe God does not care about individuals - then that’s your choice.

 

[onetimeposter]

30,000 children die as a result of poverty everyday.

I can understand why the OP has raised this question.

Our wonderful and very comfortable lives are very much as a result of the happenstance of where in the world we were born.

People say, ’ God has a plan for you’. Sounds great, if you live in rich prosperous North America…however…

You have to admit, if the plan is for you to be born and starve to death within 3 years of being born and there will be no memory or record of your existence…that does not sound like such a great plan now does it…

It is a grand mystery…that’s all I can figure. Why I get to live in rich society and billions live in poverty and millions die terrible deaths…alone and with no one to remember them.

 

[excaliber]

God is love. Refute that.

I won’t refute, its not the purpose to refute.

Yes God is Love. Think of The Holy
Trinity. God Three in one…The highest level of Love Possible.

But lets not take that and add our wild imagination to it…and think that the Homless person beging for money…enjoys the same Love as what is shared in the blessed Trinity.

 

[fhansen]

excaliber, you still have much of the JW sense of God, I think-pretty sterile-kinda like a Kingdom Hall. Remember Jesus *is *God and when you’ve seen Him you’ve seen the Father and even in his human nature He was without sin so in all things He demonstrated the right attitude. Jesus showed love, humility. servanthood-these are all attributes of almighty God. Of course Gods’ main desire is the advancement of His kingdom-it should be ours as well- but that in no way needs to interfere with His love for us as individuals. We are communities of believers but all communities are made up of individuals. He can only work within and change and transform us by His grace one at a time.

6Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies[a]? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. 7Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows. Luke 12:6-7

 

[Jlcastagna]

30,000 children die as a result of poverty everyday.

You have to admit, if the plan is for you to be born and starve to death within 3 years of being born and there will be no memory or record of your existence…that does not sound like such a great plan now does it…

To you or I it doesn’t sound like a great plan, but to God it is within His great plan. We are always in Gods memory and exist for and to Him.

May God bless and protect us,
JLC

 

[excaliber]

30,000 children die as a result of poverty everyday.

I can understand why the OP has raised this question.

Our wonderful and very comfortable lives are very much as a result of the happenstance of where in the world we were born.

People say, ’ God has a plan for you’. Sounds great, if you live in rich prosperous North America…however…

You have to admit, if the plan is for you to be born and starve to death within 3 years of being born and there will be no memory or record of your existence…that does not sound like such a great plan now does it…

It is a grand mystery…that’s all I can figure. Why I get to live in rich society and billions live in poverty and millions die terrible deaths…alone and with no one to remember them.

You are wise.
It is normal for us in this rich country to think that God gave us our wife…or that God gave us our home and family. With these asumptions it is easy to see why we go around thinking God is very concerned about us as individuals.
The truth is that you just so happened to meet your wife, you just so happened to get that job and that home. If you were born in a poor country, you the same person that thinks God cares sooo much that you have an angel just for you…the same person would probably starve to death praying for only your daily bread. Or be sold as a sex slave so your family could eat.

Why?

Simple Gods will can be acomplished without you, so why would God care if you had food or not.

Now if you lived in a poor country and you where a bishop…and lets say for example God wanted you to acomplish something for him…THEN yes you would be givin food, and all you needed to acomplish Gods will. And if for some reason God found favor with you…you may be spared.
But nothing is free…people think God Loves every single human, and that he has a job for everyone.

That’s not true, God has a will to be acomplished…and he may use us if he sees fit. And God can find favor with who he wishes to find favor with.

Dose he infinitly love and have some great purpose for everyone?
NO

 

[beckycmarie]

No this has nothing to do with my other thread. The JW teach that Gods ORGANIZATION is what he protects…not individuals.

That’s where I first heard the teaching.
And all facts considerd it makes sence.
Do you have proof that its not true?

Dear Excaliber,

It must be difficult to convert from JW to Catholic; part of that process is going to involve un-learning what the JW taught you, and learning the truth.

One thing I’ve learned in debating a JW is that in order to support their belief system, they have to come up with a completely different interpretation of the Bible than what Catholics believe, which is problematic since the Catholic Church is the only one given the authority by God to correctly interpret scripture.

I often find the JW interpretations quite a stretch when trying to use certain verses to accommodate their beliefs. That business about God only caring about the JW as an organization, and not individual souls, sounds like a convenient way to keep JWs in the fold.

I am glad you started this thread, since one basic belief of Catholicism is our personal relationship with God and that He does in fact care deeply for us individually. God is so interested in you personally that He is calling you home to the one true Church. I think you would have more peace and joy, and less anxiety and depression if you will accept in faith the fact that God is concerned with you individually and loves you personally more than you can comprehend.

I have loved you with an everlasting love; I have drawn you with loving-kindness. Jeremiah 31:3

 

[fhansen]

You are wise.
It is normal for us in this rich country to think that God gave us our wife…or that God gave us our home and family. With these asumptions it is easy to see why we go around thinking God is very concerned about us as individuals.
The truth is that you just so happened to meet your wife, you just so happened to get that job and that home. If you were born in a poor country, you the same person that thinks God cares sooo much that you have an angel just for you…the same person would probably starve to death praying for only your daily bread. Or be sold as a sex slave so your family could eat.

Why?

Simple Gods will can be acomplished without you, so why would God care if you had food or not.

Now if you lived in a poor country and you where a bishop…and lets say for example God wanted you to acomplish something for him…THEN yes you would be givin food, and all you needed to acomplish Gods will. And if for some reason God found favor with you…you may be spared.
But nothing is free…people think God Loves every single human, and that he has a job for everyone.

That’s not true, God has a will to be acomplished…and he may use us if he sees fit. And God can find favor with who he wishes to find favor with.

Dose he infinitly love and have some great purpose for everyone?
NO

I don’t follow this argument. Bishops have been martyred for the kingdom of God. Poor people and those whov’e suffered the most often have the greatest faith of all. Lack of faith is usually a luxury of the rich.

 

[marymol]

’ Only in heaven we will know how much we owe to the poor’ were propehtic words of Bl. Mo.Teresa , who dealt with lot of human misery …, experienced poverty , even of the spirit , of being not able to experience God’s Love at an emotional level …and had to go on , on the strenght of human will …that she will do God’s will, the best way she knew how …trusting that God is revealing His will for her …through a life of prayer and fidelity …suffering

thus showing the very pleasing virtue of trust …an act of love from us … that we trust our Father is good and loves us …as His very own child …

Adam had everything in a very good world …except fruit of one tree …and that is all it took for him, to listen to someone else’s voice …who was speaking through the wife God had given him …

Unlike that Son, who listened toThe Father , in The Garden … … trusting that The Father is going to make good out of it all …at the most magnificent level that The Father can …

Even for our first parents - who had to deal with the shame of their choice and all that came with it , The Father chose to show His mercy …the earth had become rebellious but struggling to deal with that rebellious earth , Adam could regain some of his manly character again …Eve, who wanted to get wisdom in the easy cheap way and to become godlike - knowing good and evil …would know what it is to suffer … may be a requirememt for fallen nature to truly be able to overcome selfishness , of wanting to use others and instead , truly care for the other , even when it hurts …

   And , how every such act of trust somehow can be an occasion of tremendous good for all of human kind ...

He showed us that through Moses…Noah …modern day saints and saintly popes …

Some of these saints , who in their life times were considered as little persons by all …but now through their miraculous intervention , letting us know how their times of trying to trust helps them to participate in the Life of the Triune God … participating in the reversal of the Fall …

May we be blessed to trust in our Lord …and be able to do our share , even when it seems ineffective …and in spite of the voice of the enemy …till that day when we would no longer have any questions !

 

[excaliber]

Dear Excaliber,

It must be difficult to convert from JW to Catholic; part of that process is going to involve un-learning what the JW taught you, and learning the truth.

One thing I’ve learned in debating a JW is that in order to support their belief system, they have to come up with a completely different interpretation of the Bible than what Catholics believe, which is problematic since the Catholic Church is the only one given the authority by God to correctly interpret scripture.

I often find the JW interpretations quite a stretch when trying to use certain verses to accommodate their beliefs. That business about God only caring about the JW as an organization, and not individual souls, sounds like a convenient way to keep JWs in the fold.

I am glad you started this thread, since one basic belief of Catholicism is our personal relationship with God and that He does in fact care deeply for us individually. God is so interested in you personally that He is calling you home to the one true Church. I think you would have more peace and joy, and less anxiety and depression if you will accept in faith the fact that God is concerned with you individually and loves you personally more than you can comprehend.

I have loved you with an everlasting love; I have drawn you with loving-kindness. Jeremiah 31:3

I am not suporting JW beliefs. The Catholic Church is Gods organization…it will last…it will be protected. Individuals Are NOT Gods main concern, they are given the church and that’s it.

There are very beautifull scriptures in the bible…but to aply them to everyone makes no sence in real life.

Yes God loves people…Abraham was his friend. But there was a basis for that friendship. God was going to start a nation through him. Abraham was not gods friend just because he was abraham.

To say that God loves me with this everlasting great Love…would bring tears to anyones eyes.

The truth is that God has a plan…you eather get with the program…or go to hell. Its that simple.

However if for some reason God choses to favor an individual and answer his prayer he can do so.
But don’t think this favor is freely given to just anyone.