God is NOT as concerned with Individuals as people want to think

[beckycmarie]

I am driving to work…and not ignoring posts…keep posting…I will catch up.

I posted about the parable of the sparow and numbering hairs on head…very early in the thread.

Yes God knows every detail of us…down to the number of hairs on owr head. Ofcourse God is all knowing. It seems however that you have added to scripture when you say that it means God is madly
in love with everyone.

what do you have directly from the
church that you don’t need to add to the end of it.

I am simply being carful before I go around saying that The Supreme Deity is madly in love with every one.
despite all evidence and scripture
which IS from the church that says otherwise.

but I will get back to your posts…Im just heading for work.

Not adding to Scripture - just inferring the obvious.

One would have to be madly in love with another to willingly be beaten with whips made of leather and bits of metal until shredded to ribbons, and then carry a heavy wooden beam that he would be nailed to later - all out of love for those he wanted to save.

One would have to be passionately in love with another to endure such a thing for the sake of his beloved.

 

[SarahR]

Sometimes I have the same opinion as OP, if I’m reading him/her right.

Seems to me that if God does care deeply, personally about ME, then He would care very much about all the details of my life and my doings.

Some people think God cares deeply about every detail of our lives, and I don’t know whether He does, or if He allows things to happen but ALWAYS provides the way for us to reach our final destination: heaven with Him.

Example: A divorcing person: does God really care one hoot who the lawyer is? who the judge is? If someone is buying a car and they pray about it, does God care?? Hard to imagine why He would, when there are villages where victims are attacked in the middle of the night and a teenage boy is forced to rape his baby sister while their mom is forced to watch. So, yeah, I don’t know that God really cares how well I do on my math test.

Then again, maybe He does care…deeply. He can, it is in the realm of possibility. I choose to talk to Him as if He does care, and I pray for others in that same vein.

Regardless, we serve Him though we do not understand.

Maybe this isn’t really what OP was talking about anyway…

 

[CatsAndDogs]

The fact is that God is concerned with HIS will being acomplished, and he is concerned with his people as a group…NOT EVERY INDIVIDUAL PERSON.

…

The truth hurts, But God is concerned with his will being acomplished. Why would he care about you or me as individuals?

The only way God CAN be concerned with His people (mankind) is if He is concerned with each one of us.

Only by showing care to those “less fortunate” after death is it possible for Him to allow “seemingly (humanly) unjust suffering” in those who are “before death”.

The story of the salvation of mankind, salvation history, as well as simply human beings living in this “worldly” environment where avalanches happen, and building fall, is about learning about the consequences of sin (the original one and it’s subsequent “offspring”).

All persons are treated fairly with the absolute maximum amount of God’s mercy.

Your “tone” is that people get unjustifiably UPSET that ANYONE suffers, and that those people then dismiss God as non-existent of actually evil (the polytheist version).

We understand your frustration, but the answer to your search for why suffering exists is not in the direction of “God doesn’t utterly love every single one of His creations”.

That way leads to madness. (Meaning: Getting angry a lot, and maybe going a bit bonkers.)

 

[Rolltide]

I know part of your feelings are because you are having difficulty making friends at your parish. Let me tell you about my current experience with the church. I go to Sunday Mass every week, and on Holy Days, and that, unfortunately, is about the extent of my current involvement at my parish. I would love to do more, but I can’t currently. I’m searching for a new job (so I may not live here that much longer), and I’m very busy teaching. I live out my faith during the day by treating my students fairly and making sure that they get an honest and fair presentation of history, including (and often especially) religion. I pray in my home. I watch ETWN when a certain show interests me. I read books on theology (in addition to history books related to my job and pleasure reading). Of course, I answer questions as much as I can on this board and on Catholic Community Forums (a good way to use my limited free time to further the faith). However, besides my priest, I only know about two people in my parish. I don’t mean it to be that way, it simply is. However, I feel that I am strong in my faith, and I make sure to live it that way in the real world. Silent witnessing is sometimes the most important. I have personally helped several people convert to the faith, including my wife. I absolutely intend to get more involved with my parish as soon as I’ve settled my job situation, but for now, I can’t participate as fully as I’d normally like. I’m not a bad person because I’m unable to volunteer in several ministries, but if most people are struggling to make ends meet, like me, you can start to see the problems that can develop.

One of the strengths and weaknesses of the Catholic Church is that I can literally go to any parish in the world and worship. It’s great because I know I can show up anywhere at anytime and participate, but it also makes it difficult to know people because people are always in transit. I don’t feel as connected to my parish as I do the “Church” in general. (Try going to a church at the beach sometime! I spoke with a priest at a parish like that one time, and he said that perhaps 70% of the 2000 people who attend Mass there each week attend the parish ONLY when they are on vacation!) Further, most Catholic parishes, as I’ve pointed out before, are extremely large. When you combine these two things, it makes it hard to fit in sometimes. However, it does give many parishes many, diverse resources. Even with that, however, it can tend to compartimentalize people into various ministries. It’s possible (on occasion) to actually offer SO much that the same people stick with one event or job and never switch up and meet new people. For example, I only have limited time. Because of my historical background, I’m usually quite helpful at RCIA. (I also really enjoy it.) However, if that’s all I do, then I never get to Bible Study, or help with readings at Mass, or with parish cleanup, or anything else. When I see new faces at Mass, I usually assume that they’re visiting members that are already Catholic, just because that is VERY common. All of that is contributing to why you are having such a hard time meeting people at your parish. It doesn’t mean that the parishoners don’t care, and it doesn’t mean that God doesn’t love them just the same.

 

[edwest2]

Sometimes I have the same opinion as OP, if I’m reading him/her right.

Seems to me that if God does care deeply, personally about ME, then He would care very much about all the details of my life and my doings.

Some people think God cares deeply about every detail of our lives, and I don’t know whether He does, or if He allows things to happen but ALWAYS provides the way for us to reach our final destination: heaven with Him.

Example: A divorcing person: does God really care one hoot who the lawyer is? who the judge is? If someone is buying a car and they pray about it, does God care?? Hard to imagine why He would, when there are villages where victims are attacked in the middle of the night and a teenage boy is forced to rape his baby sister while their mom is forced to watch. So, yeah, I don’t know that God really cares how well I do on my math test.

Then again, maybe He does care…deeply. He can, it is in the realm of possibility. I choose to talk to Him as if He does care, and I pray for others in that same vein.

Regardless, we serve Him though we do not understand.

Maybe this isn’t really what OP was talking about anyway…

The same God who said, “I am with you always even unto the end of the world.”

Why do you lack hope when God has given you hope?

God bless,
Ed

 

[onetimeposter]

The same God who said, “I am with you always even unto the end of the world.”

Why do you lack hope when God has given you hope?

God bless,
Ed

30,000 children die as a result of poverty everyday…where is their hope?

It’s a mystery why those children die, and we live lives of comparative luxury.

 

[edwest2]

For the Catholic, there is no mystery. The weight of sin affects all of Creation. And as Catholics, we are called to help alleviate suffering as best we can. As Mother Teresa said, “If you cannot feed 100 people, feed one.”

God bless,
Ed

 

[onetimeposter]

For the Catholic, there is no mystery. The weight of sin affects all of Creation. And as Catholics, we are called to help alleviate suffering as best we can. As Mother Teresa said, “If you cannot feed 100 people, feed one.”

God bless,
Ed

Are you saying that children die so that we have the chance to feed them???

 

[fhansen]

30,000 children die as a result of poverty everyday…where is their hope?

It’s a mystery why those children die, and we live lives of comparative luxury.

But it’s also true that in the end, we’re all in the same hopeless boat-destined for death-unless for the hope of eternal life. And it can be said that most evil, while allowed by God, is either committed by man or could be prevented by him, as in the case of starvation. In the end it appears that God is most concerned with our eternal destines, while time spent here on earth-how we used it- determines those destinies.

 

[Verisimilitude]

30,000 children die as a result of poverty everyday…where is their hope?

It’s a mystery why those children die, and we live lives of comparative luxury.

Their hope is in God as with all of us. It isn’t a mystery. They die because we allow their killing. God gave us the life we are wasting by the governments we create. We humans are the ones uncaring for the poor and hungry, not God. God gave us the oil we fight for. God gave us the air and water we pollute our of ignorance and/or greed. God gave us the land we claim as our own to grow the food He gave us.

God gave us the capacity to be self aware and learn, grow, and develope as a people called humanity. God gave us everything to exclude nothing.

He gave us written instructions how to be us and a legitiamte authority to make those instructions relevant as times change. Its both easy and complicated and not always easy.

God also gave Himself to us. Only love would do that so God is love.

The only think I think it safe to say He didn’t give us are puppet strings or a rigid path forced to follow. We are rational free living human beings that have elected to make our own choices. What we do with them is entirely up to us but to say God does not care about each individuals choice and therfore each individual is to put a limit on His love. It should go without saying God is limitless.

 

[SawGodThere]

I tried to quote you but its to long.
the forum won’t allow it.

Your second argument is about Christ. He is the very best argument…and posibly the only argument.
HOWEVER even Christ God, was fulfilling prophecy. Remember when the crouds came to be healed, Jesus ministry was more important then these people.
Also Jesus did not only forgive the thief. He forgave the woman who was a harlot, when she asked…also he stoped the crouds from stoning a woman…did he do this only for those people…I canot judge God. However Jesus did come to change the law, the new law was not going to be so strict.

You made my point for me, when you said ANY THIEF WHO REPENTED, COULD BE FORGIVEN.
And if that thief also died immediately after being forgivin by christ…then he to would have been with God in his kingdom…the
thief in that verse was not special.

Now please before we go on and on about Christ God. Let me please make this point…Christ had a human will and a divine will.
Its possible that in his human will he was crying when his friend laserus died…it is posible that in his human will he did many things like this. That is why arguments concerning Christ will often be invalid…we don’t know if he was using his human side or divine side. But now Christ God is glorified with The Father and The Holy Spirit. And I don’t believe that he struggles with his human side anymore.

I don’t understand why you compare Holy God, of whom the Jews were even carfull not to pronounce his name for fear of him…to a mother and her children? A mother dose not dictate how God feels or acts.

Again you make my point about the Gardian angels. We don’t know. But yet people act as if they do know. I do believe that without our gardian angels, the demons would destroy all Christians.
But dose it not make sence for angelic armys to protect us?

Finaly you say God infinitly loves us…well yes he cares for us…but lets not make it overly romantic.
I think Jesus explained this subject. When he said God notices a sparow that dies. Jesus simly says that humans are worth more then many sparows. Jesus said also that God has every hair of your hair numbered.

So from this we know that God has full knowledge about us. And that man is of more value then his animal creations.

But lets not over do everything.

Anyway we have an Idea why some prayers are granted. It depends on who is praying, and if what they pray for is acording to GODS WILL.

Are you a saint, or a priest? Are you a bishop or the pope? Are you a political leader or rich, or of some great value to the Church?
If your answer is yes, then its VERY likely that your prayers hold more weight…or are higher priority then some one like me.
I would probably need Mary or a saints help to get anything, or a novena or something to get The Almighty’s attention. Because I am nothing, I have to plead for mercy…and mabey IF God feels generous at the moment he could posibly consider it.
But people who are knowbodys like me sometimes have to make VOWS to get a prayer answerd.
Why not just ask if God Loves us just as much as someone more important? See it makes no sence, by making a vow you try to raise your value to God, so that he could become interested in your petition.

To say that God Loves EACH individual Infinitly is to turn a blind eye to everyday reality and scripture…in favor of POPULAR beliefs.

God did not forgive these sinners in one fell swoop. He forgave each person, and by forgiving all, this shows that he does care greatly for the individual person. God must provide an opportunity for ALL to know him so that none is more loved than another. Therefore, every person on this planet has the opportunity to know Christ. This shows that God cares for all of us.

God loves each of us individually. When you say that priests are more important than others, you are sadly mistaken. In society, you need the blue collar workers (the plumbers, farmers, construction workers, factory workers, etc.) and the white collar workers (government, businessmen, investors, business owners, scientists, etc.) to make a society function. Is a white collar worker more important because his task is more difficult and more in the public eye? NO! The blue collar worker is just as important, without him jobs would not get done. They simply have different roles. This is the same way with God. The Pope, Bishops, Cardinals, and Priests may all have important roles to carry Christ’s message to all people, but we the “blue collar” workers of Christ must take that message and live it, thus doing equally important work as the “White Collar” servants of God. Some jobs bring us closer to God than others, but, all in all, each person is needed to create the Kingdom of God here on earth. With no missing parts. God must care about each individual in order to care about the big picture.

 

[SarahR]

The same God who said, “I am with you always even unto the end of the world.”

Why do you lack hope when God has given you hope?

God bless,
Ed

Not sure what the virtue of hope has to do with this. ???
I “desire the kingdom of Heaven and eternal life…place my trust in Christ’s promise…not my own strength…but on the help of the grace of the Holy Spirit” (no. 1817)

Does the Church weigh in whether God is passionately, deeply interested in (or even really cares about) all the details of our individual lives?
Sometimes I think He does, other times I think that’s a very prideful attitude.
And I am okay with not knowing. I pray for the grace to serve Him regardless.

Blessings—

 

[excaliber]

Sometimes I have the same opinion as OP, if I’m reading him/her right.

Seems to me that if God does care deeply, personally about ME, then He would care very much about all the details of my life and my doings.

Some people think God cares deeply about every detail of our lives, and I don’t know whether He does, or if He allows things to happen but ALWAYS provides the way for us to reach our final destination: heaven with Him.

Example: A divorcing person: does God really care one hoot who the lawyer is? who the judge is? If someone is buying a car and they pray about it, does God care?? Hard to imagine why He would, when there are villages where victims are attacked in the middle of the night and a teenage boy is forced to rape his baby sister while their mom is forced to watch. So, yeah, I don’t know that God really cares how well I do on my math test.

Then again, maybe He does care…deeply. He can, it is in the realm of possibility. I choose to talk to Him as if He does care, and I pray for others in that same vein.

Regardless, we serve Him though we do not understand.

Maybe this isn’t really what OP was talking about anyway…

I could not have said it better
here is the chain of priority(I think)

1. Gods Will
2. Protecting The Church
   3)Saints-angels
3. humans…However
   the prayer of the righteous have the most weight. So if you are a Good bishop…priest…deacon…nun.
   etc…etc… your prayers and YOU have more weight or importance.

Everyone else…well They are at least worth more then sparows.

That explains the horrors in the world…just look at my chart
If it dose not effect Gods will or the church…then you must rely on
the prayers of the saints, or a righteous person that has favor with God.
If you don’t have any of these…Mabey God may care…but I doubt he is madly in love with you…you may be more like a pawn on a chest table…pawns are expendable.

 

[SarahR]

I could not have said it better
here is the chain of priority(I think)

1. Gods Will
2. Protecting The Church
   3)Saints-angels
3. humans…However
   the prayer of the righteous have the most weight. So if you are a Good bishop…priest…deacon…nun.
   etc…etc… your prayers and YOU have more weight or importance.

Everyone else…well They are at least worth more then sparows.

That explains the horrors in the world…just look at my chart
If it dose not effect Gods will or the church…then you must rely on
the prayers of the saints, or a righteous person that has favor with God.
If you don’t have any of these…Mabey God may care…but I doubt he is madly in love with you…you may be more like a pawn on a chest table…pawns are expendable.

Well, He is madly in love with ME…it’s just the rest of you hooligans I’m not to sure about.

 

[edwest2]

Are you saying that children die so that we have the chance to feed them???

Consider the number of billionaires and millionaires in the world. Consider that armies in foreign countries take food meant for the poor for themselves, sometimes gunning down aid workers in the process or that aid organizations are prevented from entering a country in the first place. Human suffering began the moment our first parents sinned.

God bless,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Not sure what the virtue of hope has to do with this. ???
I “desire the kingdom of Heaven and eternal life…place my trust in Christ’s promise…not my own strength…but on the help of the grace of the Holy Spirit” (no. 1817)

Does the Church weigh in whether God is passionately, deeply interested in (or even really cares about) all the details of our individual lives?
Sometimes I think He does, other times I think that’s a very prideful attitude.
And I am okay with not knowing. I pray for the grace to serve Him regardless.

Blessings—

Did you not read in the Bible about the hope that is in you? How God knew you before you were formed in the womb?

Why are you content to not know? Ask God and he will surely tell you. The Church tells all of us to read our Bibles so that we can come to know God better. I also recommend getting a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

God bless,
Ed

 

[excaliber]

Not sure what the virtue of hope has to do with this. ???
I “desire the kingdom of Heaven and eternal life…place my trust in Christ’s promise…not my own strength…but on the help of the grace of the Holy Spirit” (no. 1817)

Does the Church weigh in whether God is passionately, deeply interested in (or even really cares about) all the details of our individual lives?
Sometimes I think He does, other times I think that’s a very prideful attitude.
And I am okay with not knowing. I pray for the grace to serve Him regardless.

Blessings—

Exactly
you should serve God because he is deserving of worship, not because of warm feelings you get when you read about The sceond person of The blessed Trinity…who was in the form of a slave…and in extreme denial of his divine power…so much so that he would actualy say…not as I will but as you will.

It seems that this is what many fall in love with. But the bible is clear when it said that while the son was God…equality with God is not what he held on to.

But I think people think of God as Christ WAS, but that was not the norm for God. That is why people have problems understanding the difference between God in the old testiment and God in the new testiment.
The God of the old testiment was in the normal state…not the lowered abnormal one. But I think because the God of the old testiment struck FEAR in the hearts of the isrealites when his presence was in the mountains…there were trumpets from heaven fire smoke thunder…and anyone aproaching his holy presence besides moses or Aaron would drop dead before his Glory. Anyone touching the ark but sertain priests would have to die for such foolishness. Any nation standing in the way of the Almighty was destroyed…every individual was not pleaded with…women and children were destroyed!! citys burned!! Before the Glory of the supreme God.

The lifes of little children were of no more importants then to the Supreme Deity, then they are now.
This perfectly explains the suffering in the world.

But knowone likes this image of God, so it seems they hold on to the image they get from The Second Person of The Blessed Trinity, AFTER HE STRIPED HIMSELF OF HIS NORMAL GLORY.

So the question remains…why do Christians get away with speaking of Holy angels as friends…and the Almighty in the way they do…as a friend or parent or something??

Its simple…Christs sacrifise is covering over such offenses. We can say such things and not die as we would had we said the same thing in the presence of the almighty before Christs sacrifise.

So I think we can get away with saying that God is madly in love with everyone. Because of Christ shed blood. I think God tolerates a lot of what we do.

Yes God loved the WORLD.
Yes God is so AWARE of us that all our hairs are numberd. We should feel privileged that God is even aware of us.

Yes Christ spoke to us with a human nature…and completely humbled himself and striped himself of his normal Glory as he was speaking.
But now he is in heaven, at the right hand of The Father in power and great Glory. And his devine will is what is important. All these denominations saying these crazy things about the Almighty are tolerated because of christs shed blood…just as we are tolerated.

That is why people can be born deformed…be killed…starved…raped…such horrors that could leave people permanently traumatized and can’t even be menchoned on this forum.
Why? Simple…its not acording to the devine will to stop these things right now, God is aware of it…capable of stoping it…BUT NOT INTERESTED IN STOPING IT RIGHT NOW. That I think is the truth…and perfectly explains everything. But God will not let anything happen to the WHOLE GROUP OF CHRISTIANS, now will he…think about that for a second.

the formula God is all powerfull,all knowing, and all loving…sounds good but makes no sence at all.
I don’t think its a mystery because it makes no sence.
Its just not true.

God is all powerfull…all knowing…and God IS love by the nature of The Holy Trinity…the three in one.

It makes no sence to throw ourselves in the love part…as if we were mambers of The Holy Trinity. We have not been through purgatory yet, we normaly could not even aproach God.

Im not convinced the church teaches this anymore then it taught the popular idea of limbo.

You simply canot look at my life…or the lifes of countless others and say such things with a straight face.

 

[cheeto1]

Emergency will robinson! Danger! Danger!
God is not irrelevant in your life, I promise, and I don’t ever promise, since the Bible warns against it!
YES YOU ARE HIS BELOVED, there, now you have read this and the words will stay in your brain forever for you to consider
whenever you want!

The problem is, Hitler and Bin Laden and all the worst and evil
criminals are also His beloved and He loves them as much as
we love our own parents or children. They were born for good,
not evil, the plan was for them to be good, but He gave them
free will. As long as a person has life, they can change their
mind and be good, and even fight for good, and even change
the whole world for the better!

That is why we must respect every living person. Jesus laid
down His life for them, and who are we to show the least
disrespect for God’s beloved? It is a spiritual war we fight,
not against flesh and blood.

 

[water]

The truth hurts, But God is concerned with his will being acomplished. Why would he care about you or me as individuals?

He took a form of a human being just like one of us and died on the Cross.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

…

But now he is in heaven, at the right hand of The Father in power and great Glory. And his devine will is what is important. All these denominations saying these crazy things about the Almighty are tolerated because of christs shed blood…just as we are tolerated.

Were “unbelievers” who were not of “Abraham’s line” (gentiles) killed instantly for mocking God (as described by believers in God)?

No. They were “tolerated” in their “sin” (probably non-culpable [venial] sin) before Jesus!

Why weren’t the Samaritans killed off for their disobedience?

Doesn’t God send the rain to believers and unbelievers alike for their good, since time began?

There is no need to say that God doesn’t utterly love each individual because God is ultimately concerned with His will being done. Both exist simultaneously.

I agree that it’s a ridiculous thing to say that since God allows suffering for individuals He can’t exist as we say we know Him, since an ALL-GOOD God wouldn’t allow suffering, but it’s equally silly to say that God doesn’t care about individual suffering at all because He’s only concerned with His will being done

That is why people can be born deformed…be killed…starved…raped…such horrors that could leave people permanently traumatized and can’t even be menchoned on this forum.

Why? Simple…its not acording to the devine will to stop these things right now, God is aware of it…capable of stoping it…BUT NOT INTERESTED IN STOPING IT RIGHT NOW.

OK. I strenuously OBJECT and take offense at your use of the phrase “Not Interested In” above!

If you had simply said He has a purpose (His will) for any individual’s suffering, and will “make good” His divine mercy toward each of us eventually, I wouldn’t object to your offensive TONE in implying that God is capable of “Not being interested” in ANYTHING having to do with His greatest creation.

That I think is the truth…and perfectly explains everything. But God will not let anything happen to the WHOLE GROUP OF CHRISTIANS, now will he…think about that for a second.

Amen!

the formula God is all powerfull,all knowing, and all loving…sounds good but makes no sence at all.
I don’t think its a mystery because it makes no sence.
Its just not true.

And that is the heresy of Marcion! Look it up!

God is all powerfull…all knowing…and God IS love by the nature of The Holy Trinity…the three in one.

It makes no sence to throw ourselves in the love part…as if we were mambers of The Holy Trinity. We have not been through purgatory yet, we normaly could not even aproach God.

It is contrary to Catholic thinking to treat ANY aspect of the deposit of faith (our beliefs) as the ONLY important part which overides all other parts of the deposit.

Im not convinced the church teaches this anymore then it taught the popular idea of limbo.

You simply canot look at my life…or the lifes of countless others and say such things with a straight face.

You are not allowed to despair that “God doesn’t love you utterly, but has a plan which might entail seemingly (humanly) unjust suffering on your part.”

You MUST accept that God BOTH utterly loves you and will allow you to suffer for the greater good of mankind.