God is NOT as concerned with Individuals as people want to think

[Rolltide]

You said it!!!

You said US!

You said God gave US, over and over. Just as I said, Gods main concern is US as a whole.

I have also said a million times that yes God is aware of Individuals, he KNOWS every hair on our head. But the INDIVIDUAL is not Gods main concern. It is the Church as a whole. Look at the world around you, and use your God given reason. The proof is in the pudding.

Excaliber,
God can be concerned both with the Church AND each and every individual at the same time. Let’s say I have a family. Of course, my concern is for my family as a whole, protecting and providing for it. That doesn’t preclude me from loving my wife and children equally and fully! Further, if I have a child that grows up to do terrible things, that doesn’t necessarily mean that I raised them improperly. They might have gotten involved in drugs, or theft, and ended up in jail. Even though they end up in prison, I still love them the same as my other children. They simply chose to go down the wrong path. Even if I were to intervene, I might not succeed (and God might know that).

Have you ever wondered why wedding vows include the line “until death do us part”? It’s because marriages END at death, because there’s no need for them in heaven. At that point, we will witness God’s perfect love in person, and everyone will love each other perfectly. It’s not that I won’t still recognize my wife, but my love will be elevated to the same state as God’s love. I will love EVERYONE equally, as much as or even more than I loved my closest relatives during life. This is how God’s love operates all the time.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs
Do you believe that every person who comes to finally choose God and reach heaven, via purgation or otherwise, is given God’s infinite mercy such that their suffering on earth is recompensed as the worthy sacrifice it was?

Life in heaven IS the goal.
And aparently there are different rewards in heaven.

But dose that not proove my point.
That Is Gods will. Now what happens after that we don’t know.

Look around, the Rules of the game seem to be Kill or be killed for many peoples lives.

Now some have money and a better life then others, its easy for them to think about all that lovey dovey stuff.

Are those who DO suffer seemingly unjustly loved more or less than those who suffer less suffering in life?

No. Each person is loved precisely equally. What would be the reason for every individual, who we’ve just said are loved equally with every other individual, to be loved “just THIS much” by God instead of “completely and utterly”?

You pose a “war” where there is no “war”. God BOTH loves every individual in their eternity completely AND loves His Church (which is His will) as mankind’s way to Him completely.

Please study more about suffering and justice.

 

[fhansen]

Life in heaven IS the goal.
And aparently there are different rewards in heaven.

But dose that not proove my point.
That Is Gods will. Now what happens after that we don’t know.

Look around, the Rules of the game seem to be Kill or be killed for many peoples lives.

Now some have money and a better life then others, its easy for them to think about all that lovey dovey stuff.

Oh, excaliber, I don’t know if you get it. Love is the goal. It may well be misunderstood, under-appreciated, and caricatured by some who’re supposed to be promoting it but in Pope Benedicts’ words, love’s the “foundation of the world”. What else would be worth living eternally for? This life is dog-eat-dog by and large. I accept that as proof of the doctrine of original sin-of mans’ culpability in the lack of love here on earth-not proof that God doesn’t love us as individuals.

 

[Rolltide]

Now some have money and a better life then others, its easy for them to think about all that lovey dovey stuff.

But it is the church and God’s love that sustains people who are suffering. It is even MORE important to them. Read the Eight Beatitudes (the Sermon on the Mount). It is the poor in spirit, the downtrodden, the persecuted, and so on, that receive the compassion and mercy of God the most. Look at the lesson of the Prodigal Son. The good son asks why such a fuss is made over him, when he had been so disobedient. The answer is that his soul was in jeopardy, and God (represented by the father in the story, of course) was relieved that he had come back to the fold. The good son had never caused any problems, and God could rely on him. But, because of his circumstances, it was difficult for the Prodigal Son to return to the correct path.

 

[beckycmarie]

Originally Posted by excaliber

I’m still waiting for the answer to my question. . .

 

[distracted]

.

Another Idea is that Almighty God is Concerned with individuals. Sounds Good but is not true.

I have to say i did not read your entire post… i can do that later… this statement stopped me cold…

this is NOT true… God (Jesus )cares very much about individuals…

Of course, years ago, i would have been the absolute LAST person who would be saying this right now…That’s because i didn’t know then what i know now…

i have spent a lot of time with Jesus @ the Blessed Sacrament… Suffice it to say that people in my life …have often made me feel un-important (etc.)… I never feel that way while in His Presence… When there, I often feel almost like… well, almost like i am the only human being in the world…

(and i sometimes wish i were )

but anyway… have you ever spent time There?? I feel that if you had, you would not be saying this…

OK, now i will try to read as much as i have time for… of the rest of the post…

 

[excaliber]

I have to say i did not read your entire post… i can do that later… this statement stopped me cold…

this is NOT true… God (Jesus )cares very much about individuals…

Of course, years ago, i would have been the absolute LAST person who would be saying this right now…That’s because i didn’t know then what i know now…

i have spent a lot of time with Jesus @ the Blessed Sacrament… Suffice it to say that people in my life …have often made me feel un-important (etc.)… I never feel that way while in His Presence… When there, I often feel almost like… well, almost like i am the only human being in the world…

(and i sometimes wish i were )

but anyway… have you ever spent time There?? I feel that if you had, you would not be saying this…

OK, now i will try to read as much as i have time for… of the rest of the post…

I have tried, I was feeling very sad…and I went to a church to pray…it was mabey 3 or 4 pm…and the doors were locked…
so I went home feeling worse then
I did before trying to pray at a church.

Mabey I am being selfish…but mabey God could have spared a miracle,and someone could have forgot to lock the door that once.

I MEAN I FELT BAD…with a capitol “B”.

Then I left a locked church feeling disapointed on top of that.
to make matters worse God was Fully aware of the situation.
He knew how I felt and that mabey all I needed was to just sit in a church for a little while.

If I infinitly loved someone I would have opened the door some how.
a very small miracle for someone you love.

 

[Mark_Robert]

I’m sorry but “harmfull” is with one L and “acomplished” is with two Cs. If you speak only one language, you might as well get it right.

 

[excaliber]

I’m still waiting for the answer to my question. . .

Would I die for an individual I did not care for? NO

Would I (like Jesus) die for a group of people…your country for example? Yes

You can die for your country,without loving every individual in that country.

Am I right or am I right?

 

[CatsAndDogs]

I have tried, I was feeling very sad…and I went to a church to pray…it was mabey 3 or 4 pm…and the doors were locked…
so I went home feeling worse then
I did before trying to pray at a church.

Mabey I am being selfish…but mabey God could have spared a miracle,and someone could have forgot to lock the door that once.

I MEAN I FELT BAD…with a capitol “B”.

Then I left a locked church feeling disapointed on top of that.
to make matters worse God was Fully aware of the situation.
He knew how I felt and that mabey all I needed was to just sit in a church for a little while.

If I infinitly loved someone I would have opened the door some how.
a very small miracle for someone you love.

Why do you blame your suffering on God, instead of offering it up to God as your cross to bear for Him?

You sound rather like the “Anti-Job”.

Try to learn what God is trying to tell you by allowing you to be disappointed by wanting Him and finding only a locked Church.

Perhaps you need to learn that you can’t always get what you want, but with God, you will always get what you most need.

You either believe that God always does what is best for you at any and every moment of your time on earth, or you don’t. If you don’t, then that is most definitely something to learn is a truth.

Don’t test God to do “miracles” for you, and then complain when He doesn’t. Simply know that everything that happens to you happens because it is best that you receive that opportunity to “bear His cross” for your good, the good of His Church, and the good of all mankind.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Would I die for an individual I did not care for? NO

Would I (like Jesus) die for a group of people…your country for example? Yes

You can die for your country,without loving every individual in that country.

Am I right or am I right?

Yes, you’re right, but you’re not God.

God’s ways are not ours, and your assuming that God would behave as you would is “misplaced”.

 

[beckycmarie]

Yes, you’re right, but you’re not God.

God’s ways are not ours, and your assuming that God would behave as you would is “misplaced”.

Agreed. You are projecting a lot of your personal thoughts and biases onto God.

Here’s the Pope himself on God’s love. If you read this and still insist that God doesn’t love you or anyone else individually, then you have a major issue with rebellion and/or lack of faith. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - every time you deny God’s love, you are calling God a liar. It’s time to cut the nonsense and accept the fact of His love, if you are honestly seeking the Him.

If you continue to insist on twisting the words of scripture and what the Church says into a concept of God totally unsupported by any teaching of the Catholic Church, then you are being disingenuous. This type of thing is exactly why I have the quote from Msgr. Cristiani in my sig line.

DEUS CARITAS EST (GOD IS LOVE)
BENEDICT XVI

“God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 Jn 4:16). These words from the First Letter of John express with remarkable clarity the heart of the Christian faith: the Christian image of God and the resulting image of mankind and its destiny. In the same verse, Saint John also offers a kind of summary of the Christian life: “We have come to know and to believe in the love God has for us”.

We have come to believe in God’s love: in these words the Christian can express the fundamental decision of his life. Being Christian is not the result of an ethical choice or a lofty idea, but the encounter with an event, a person, which gives life a new horizon and a decisive direction. Saint John’s Gospel describes that event in these words: “God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should … have eternal life” (3:16). In acknowledging the centrality of love, Christian faith has retained the core of Israel’s faith, while at the same time giving it new depth and breadth. The pious Jew prayed daily the words of the Book of Deuteronomy which expressed the heart of his existence: “Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord, and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul and with all your might” (6:4-5). Jesus united into a single precept this commandment of love for God and the commandment of love for neighbour found in the Book of Leviticus: “You shall love your neighbour as yourself” (19:18; cf. Mk 12:29-31). Since God has first loved us (cf. 1 Jn 4:10), love is now no longer a mere “command”; it is the response to the gift of love with which God draws near to us.

In a world where the name of God is sometimes associated with vengeance or even a duty of hatred and violence, this message is both timely and significant. For this reason, I wish in my first Encyclical to speak of the love which God lavishes upon us and which we in turn must share with others. That, in essence, is what the two main parts of this Letter are about, and they are profoundly interconnected. The first part is more speculative, since I wanted here—at the beginning of my Pontificate—to clarify some essential facts concerning the love which God mysteriously and gratuitously offers to man, together with the intrinsic link between that Love and the reality of human love.

 

[Rolltide]

Excaliber,
If you haven’t already, take a moment to study the quote that beckycmarie posted just above me very closely. Take a couple minutes just to think about the title of the document itself, for it’s actually pretty remarkable - God IS Love. The very definition of God is, indeed, love! Think about how remarkable that is. If the passage above intrigues you, here’s the entire document by Pope Benedict:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20051225_deus-caritas-est_en.html

 

[cheeto1]

You have not spoken to hitler or binladen…who knows if they felt loved or not…but both have a high disregard for individual human life.

They aparently thought God agreed with them.

We don’t know if they felt loved or not, but they were.
And each of us are too. (Individually)
God gives us miracles.
Not just the kind that magically unlocks a door at a certain hour.
The power He gives us is the power to love and to do the
right thing, come what may.
Believe me, those are miracles.

 

[excaliber]

Excaliber,
If you haven’t already, take a moment to study the quote that beckycmarie posted just above me very closely. Take a couple minutes just to think about the title of the document itself, for it’s actually pretty remarkable - God IS Love. The very definition of God is, indeed, love! Think about how remarkable that is. If the passage above intrigues you, here’s the entire document by Pope Benedict:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20051225_deus-caritas-est_en.html

Hi Role tide

I read what beckycmarie copyed.
And I laughed as it seems to say what I have been saying all along.

here is a quote

since I wanted here—at the beginning of my Pontificate—to clarify some essential facts concerning the love which God mysteriously and gratuitously offers to man
end quote

Yes to “man”. is that not my point.
Let me repeat my point.

God loves “Mankind” and has given
“mankind” life, and free will.
God has also given his Son to save
“Mankind”.

Not any one individual.

God gave mankind as a whole good things…not an individual.

I can also proove my point with EVERYDAY reality.

For example…hunger
and birth defects…God gave “Mankind” the ability to reproduce.
This gift is for the human race as a whole…if God gave each individual one a great deal of attention…then babys would not be born with deformed lims. The fact is that God had nothing to do with those children born deformed or even joined at the hip. The imperfect human body was left to reproduce ALL ON ITS OWN, NO SPECIAL ATTENTION FROM GOD ON EACH INDIVIDUAL ONE.

My point is also proven with denominations in 2008. People are born in a world with thousands of churches claiming to be correct.

Now follow my logic please.

If Gods love is focused on individuals, you can make the argument that he lets people die of hunger, and get born with no arms and things because he feels that those things are not important.

However The church IS important,
and if a person is without at the BARE MINIMUM the church…then his very sole is in EXTREME danger. If you are not individualy given “AT THE BARE MINIMUM” the Church…then God dose NOT love you individualy as much as you say.
Now please explain the people who are apart of cults…cults that will eventualy destroy a persons faith in God…did I forget to mention that most ex jehovahs witnesses are athiests…I have spoken to many…and after hearing the storys of people who loved God just as much as any of you Catholics…but what did they get for loving God??? there lives destroyed…or depression so bad people are on medication…MEDICATION FOR TRYING TO SERVE GOD!!!
And the ironic thing is that most of them still don’t know about the catholic faith, yea you heard me, there search for God was the most distructive thing in there whole LIFE…and God still has not revealed his Church to them.

God makes sure mankind has the Church…not each individual,which you guys say he is madly in love with.

Guys I understand that you want to believe that God is interested in every detail of your individual life.
Im sorry to say it is IMPOSSIBLE for this to be true.
IMPOSSIBLE!!!
but you have not experienced and seen what others have, so I expect many to keep arguing…however I have an arsenal of proof…the most others can do is take a scripture ment for Christians as a whole…then try to apply it to themselves individualy. What ever rows your boat I guess.

But Its just like the Catholic church…I KNOW its the truth, people swear to me that its not…but I already know now.And I have an arsenal of proof to show them.

Its the same with my point here…I know its the truth, and I have an arsenal of proof to prove it.

 

[fhansen]

I don’t know if you’ve read Augustine much but this is one of his quotes and he represents the mind of Church pretty well, I think:

**God loves each of us as if there were only one of us. **
–Saint Augustine

 

[excaliber]

I don’t know if you’ve read Augustine much but this is one of his quotes and he represents the mind of Church pretty well, I think:

**God loves each of us as if there were only one of us. **
–Saint Augustine

glad you said that, that is exactly what I don’t believe. For one this is not an infalible teaching…it can’t be.

And number two, I should not need Saint Augustines quote “IF”
God Loves me that much individualy. Because “I” should feel it personaly.

Dose your child say " I know dady loves me because OTHER kids say there dads love them?"

Ok so I have been responding to many of these posts…why not respond to what I just said in my last post.

I think you must ignore what I said in my last post to continue to believe this. If you need more to believe me…I got plenty more.

But why not respond to my last post…I would like to hear it.

 

[fhansen]

glad you said that, that is exactly what I don’t believe. For one this is not an infalible teaching…it can’t be.

And number two, I should not need Saint Augustines quote “IF”
God Loves me that much individualy. Because “I” should feel it personaly.

Dose your child say " I know dady loves me because OTHER kids say there dads love them?"

Ok so I have been responding to many of these posts…why not respond to what I just said in my last post.

I think you must ignore what I said in my last post to continue to believe this. If you need more to believe me…I got plenty more.

But why not respond to my last post…I would like to hear it.

I’m not saying He cares about what kind of car you drive and all that. I’m saying He loves you as an individual and loves deformed babies as individuals and I don’t see how it makes any difference anyway or makes any sense for that matter to say that He loves mankind but not the individual man as if somehow its OK for bad things to happen as long as He only loves us in some generic sense-I really don’t know what kind of love that would even be-a pretend love? I’ve experienced the love of God. You have no idea what it even is. You can’t know and if you did you’d know you were wrong. I speak from experience and you can laugh at that but apparently that’s more than you can say and I’ll tell you that your God sounds much more like the JWs Jehovah than any God I know or the Church has ever known. “God rewards those who earnestly seek Him”-seek Him for years if that’s what it takes-even if He slays them-but probably not someone who whines when the Church door’s locked.

 

[excaliber]

I’m not saying He cares about what kind of car you drive and all that. I’m saying He loves you as an individual and loves deformed babies as individuals and I don’t see how it makes any difference anyway or makes any sense for that matter to say that He loves mankind but not the individual man as if somehow its OK for bad things to happen as long as He only loves us in some generic sense-I really don’t know what kind of love that would even be-a pretend love? I’ve experienced the love of God. You have no idea what it even is. You can’t know and if you did you’d know you were wrong. I speak from experience and you can laugh at that but apparently that’s more than you can say and I’ll tell you that your God sounds much more like the JWs Jehovah than any God I know or the Church has ever known. “God rewards those who earnestly seek Him”-seek Him for years if that’s what it takes-even if He slays them-but probably not someone who whines when the Church door’s locked.

Oh I wine when the church doors are locked now…hehehehe…ok its ok, I know its hard when you want to believe something, then I come with proof that its not true.

And as far as this Jehovahs witness God I am describing…umm well mabey being born and raised Jehovahs witness has something to do with that.

I am willing to bet that you HAVE something that makes you feel God loves you individualy…well what is it? a nice family…a home…a job??? go ahead tell this jehovahs witness convert what you have?

I laugh because I want to believe it
but I know its not true. Its to good to be true. Mabey I need to wine outside more churches LOL

ok so now seriously. is this all you have? You just stand there and speak for God, are you a prophet?
when did God tell you that he loves deformed babys?..oh you just asumed he dose because it sounds good.

This love for mankind is not pretend love…God gave his only Son for it.

I may have wined outside of that church…but atleast I can prove a point. And I don’t sit there and try to speak for God with nothing to back me up.

 

[beckycmarie]

Excaliber, it sounds like you can’t reconcile God’s love for individuals because of the problem of suffering. Perhaps these will help: an article and a talk by Dr. Peter Kreeft, Catholic apologist and professor of Philosophy.


Article: What is God’s Answer to Human Suffering?

Audio: Making Sense Out of Suffering

How long are you going to reject God’s love for you? When you die and are face to face with the most awesome, most powerful love that ever was and ever will be, are you going to reject it then, too?

I am willing to bet that you HAVE something that makes you feel God loves you individualy…well what is it? a nice family…a home…a job??? go ahead tell this jehovahs witness convert what you have?

What do I have that makes me feel God loves me individually? It definitely isn’t based on the family, a home or a job. Those things are indeed blessings, but my I don’t place my hope in them.

God makes me feel loved by reminding me always that this world is not my home. I am only here for a short time, a blink of an eye in light of forever, and I just get this one chance to prove my love for Him and others.

God loves me so much that I get to touch Him every time I go to communion. What other rich and powerful king would allow a poor wretch of a commoner to touch him other than a king with great love?

God loves me so much that even when I was a horrid sinner, He called me to a conversion so deep that I pray every day that I never go back to what I was.

God loves me so much that on occasion in prayer, He gives me little glimpses of what Heaven may be like by giving me just a small taste of the love we will experience in Heaven.

I laugh because I want to believe it
but I know its not true. Its to good to be true.

Your concept of God is WAY too small if you think anything is too good to be true with God.