God is not dead!

[StrawberryJam]

Curse this democratic form of government - if only you had some way to get your politicians elected.

This could be why so many are pushing for a theocracy here. It’s working well in Saudi Arabia.

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

This could be why so many are pushing for a theocracy here. It’s working well in Saudi Arabia.

I’m certain the Chinese and Russians can speak well of the communist populist movements, pursued to enact equality among the people and to free them of the shackles of religion. The point is that any form of government can be compromised by the people wielding executive authority. I would have used another example but I would be invoking Godwin’s Law.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Strawberry

This could be why so many are pushing for a theocracy here. It’s working well in Saudi Arabia.

Nobody here is pushing for theocracy. We are pushing for common sense and common decency.

 

[inocente]

I would have used another example but I would be invoking Godwin’s Law.

Agreed, that’s the job of a couple of other posters here.

 

[inocente]

Nobody here is pushing for theocracy. We are pushing for common sense and common decency.

Then you’re not helpless against modernity after all. Hallelujah, the saints be praised!

But, now hang on un momento here:

catholicsforchoice.org/topics/abortion/default.asp
condoms4life.org/home.htm
dignityusa.org/

So when you say common decency, who gets to decide?

 

[Pondero]

God is dead said Nietzsche.Nietzsche is dead said God.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

inocente
**
So when you say common decency, who gets to decide? **

Common sense people get to decide. That is the way of the world, religious or not.

Common sense and common decency has always said sodomy is evil.

Common sense and common decency has always said killing our children is evil.

The fact that the law allows sodomy and abortion is only an indication that people without common sense have taken over the nation.

If you don’t think so for the above reasons, as a super-liberal Baptist you might not, consider that the nation owes itself 13 trillions of dollars, thanks to our lawmakers…

That is neither common sense nor common decency. Talk your way out of that one!

 

[Pondero]

Then you’re not helpless against modernity after all. Hallelujah, the saints be praised!

But, now hang on un momento here:

catholicsforchoice.org/topics/abortion/default.asp
condoms4life.org/home.htm
dignityusa.org/

So when you say common decency, who gets to decide?

Er…to dare to interrrupt this discussion with Charlem… something or other… the answer to your question is

The Pope and his Church, the Roman Catholic Church, who is infallible when he speaks ex-cathedra on the subject of faith and morals, defining a doctrine or dogma!
That I think is the complete answer. The above websites are an abomination in a good Catholic’s view as they contradict the magisterium teaching! Amen

 

[inocente]

That I think is the complete answer. The above websites are an abomination in a good Catholic’s view as they contradict the magisterium teaching! Amen

 

[inocente]

Common sense and common decency has always said sodomy is evil.

Nope. Common sense says there’s mutual consent and no harm. Common decency says don’t pick on minorities. They pay their taxes, they contribute to society, they’re as Good As You. What’s not to like?

How about leaving innocent folk alone and going after drug dealers instead, or would that be indecent and an outrage against common sense?

*If you don’t think so for the above reasons, as a super-liberal Baptist you might not, consider that the nation owes itself 13 trillions of dollars, thanks to our lawmakers…

That is neither common sense nor common decency. Talk your way out of that one! *

You done switched back into helpless bubble mode. What 'cha saying – people only get to vote if they vote for you?

 

[Charlemagne_II]

inocente

**Nope. Common sense says there’s mutual consent and no harm. Common decency says don’t pick on minorities. They pay their taxes, they contribute to society, they’re as Good As You. What’s not to like? **

No harm? Where in your Baptist bible does it say that Sodom and Gomorrah were not depraved, and that the cities were not destroyed for their depravity?

Sodomy is not a serious health risk for a communicable disease? Ever heard of AIDS?

And since when does mutual consent become a common sense criteria for moral actions. You mean if two perverts agree to a perverse act, that’s common sense?

All the world since the start of human history has frowned on sodomy. That’s common sense. Learn some history and stop trying to re-write it!

I didn’t know Baptists believe sodomy is harmless. Is that what you are saying? Is that the current line among Baptists? That sodomy is good as long as the sodomites pay their taxes?

 

[StrawberryJam]

Literal interpretation

A game of perpetuation

It may not feel like strangualtion

Or infection or contagion

It can feel like salvation it is revelation

Our eyes are not as good as the Octopus

Let’s stop reading things

That make us feel it’s okay
to take civil rights away
From those who don’t see things our way
Or do as we say

And expect them to obey

 

[inocente]

No harm? Where in your Baptist bible does it say that Sodom and Gomorrah were not depraved, and that the cities were not destroyed for their depravity?

In Spain, once one of the most fiercely Catholic countries, LGBT union has been legal for 6 years. The RCC campaigned against but two thirds of the people approved the change.

Malta had a referendum just this Sunday to decide whether to remain the only country in the Western hemisphere where divorce is illegal. 95% are Catholic, 72% turned out, the RCC campaigned against change and again the RCC lost.

Meanwhile the average age of priests in Spain is over 63, in some areas 72. It seems recruitment is problematic because men unreasonably want a family, which they can have in any other job. And what’s this? In the United States 40 years ago, there was one priest for every 772 Catholics, now it is one per 1,603. In 1970, there were 8,000 students in US seminaries, today it is around 1,300. - independent.co.uk/opinion/faith/as-priest-numbers-fall-even-catholic-spain-is-not-immune-to-a-crisis-of-faith-1839313.html

What’s that phrase again about noodling around while Rome burns?

Sodomy is not a serious health risk for a communicable disease? Ever heard of AIDS?

Heterosexuals are now immune to AIDS? Condoms are a sensible way to reduce STDs, sent from God as it were. Oh :doh2: forgot they’re also depraved and disordered.

And since when does mutual consent become a common sense criteria for moral actions. You mean if two perverts agree to a perverse act, that’s common sense?

Love the use of loaded words like perverts and sodomy. You’re going to install a camera in every bedroom to catch out consenting adults? That wouldn’t be just a little bit perverse?

All the world since the start of human history has frowned on sodomy. That’s common sense. Learn some history and stop trying to re-write it!

Exactly, how dare women want equal rights, how dare anyone free the slaves, these serfs are far too big for their boots. Or else that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom – and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth. – Señor Abraham Lincoln

I didn’t know Baptists believe sodomy is harmless. Is that what you are saying? Is that the current line among Baptists? That sodomy is good as long as the sodomites pay their taxes?

*There is no damage to marriage or to the family in allowing two people of the same sex to get married. Rather, these citizens now have the ability to organize their lives according to marital and familial norms and demands. There is no threat to the institution of marriage, but precisely the opposite: this law recognizes and values marriage.

Aware that some people and institutions * profoundly disagree with this legal change, I wish to say that like other reforms to the marriage code that preceded this one, this law will not generate bad results, that its only consequence will be to avoid senseless suffering of human beings. A society that avoids senseless suffering of its citizens is a better society.

In any case, I wish to express my deep respect to those people and institutions, and I also want to ask for the same respect for all of those who approve of this law. To the homosexuals that have personally tolerated the abuse and insults for many years, I ask that you add to the courage you have demonstrated in your struggle for civil rights, an example of generosity and joy with respect to all the beliefs. – Presidente José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, 2005*


Gay pride, 2005, celebrating same sex marriage law. Just to rub it in, the banner reads “SECULAR STATE!” Yea! Power to the people!*

 

[inocente]

Literal interpretation

A game of perpetuation

It may not feel like strangualtion

Or infection or contagion

It can feel like salvation it is revelation

Our eyes are not as good as the Octopus

Let’s stop reading things

That make us feel it’s okay
to take civil rights away
From those who don’t see things our way
Or do as we say

And expect them to obey

I really like that! Couldn’t find it on google, is it your own?

 

[Charlemagne_II]

inocente

Since you haven’t answered the question, I’ll ask it again … and again … and again … until you answer it.

Do you as a Baptist agree that sodomite marriages ought to be legal? Has any Baptist group declared itself in support of sodomite marriages? Which ones? Please be specific and cite documents.

If so, do you also agree that incestuous marriages and polygamous marriages also ought to be legal? If not, why not?

What civilization in the previous history of the world has approved of sodomite marriages between members of the same sex? Be specific.

Why should it now be legal when the whole world until our time has found the very notion idiotic and offensive to common sense?

 

[inocente]

Since you haven’t answered the question, I’ll ask it again … and again … and again … until you answer it.

Do you as a Baptist agree that sodomite marriages ought to be legal? Has any Baptist group declared itself in support of sodomite marriages? Which ones? Please be specific and cite documents.

If you mean gay marriage then yes of course, I’d have thought that’s blindingly obvious from previous posts.

Why do you use this loaded KJV word “sodomite”? Are you referring to inhabitants of Sodom or to shrine prostitutes? Why not use words by which people define themselves?

I’ve no idea what other Baptists think, it’s never been discussed. We don’t have a hierarchy sending down instructions from on high, we’re not political lobbyists, we’re Christians, free to make up our own minds. That’s kind of central to Baptists, btw.

If so, do you also agree that incestuous marriages and polygamous marriages also ought to be legal? If not, why not?

Incest is often destructive and is genetically unwise, so no. Polygamy is the norm in some cultures but wouldn’t meet the conditions for the sacrament in a Baptist church. I’ve never really thought on it but personally one wife for life is just about right.

*What civilization in the previous history of the world has approved of sodomite marriages between members of the same sex? Be specific.

Why should it now be legal when the whole world until our time has found the very notion idiotic and offensive to common sense?*

Why should I care? Is that the best argument you’ve got bro, lots of people kept slaves so we should too, we’re forever trapped by the past?

But you ignore my point again. Do Catholics debate important things like keeping kids off drugs, reducing teenage pregnancies, the shortage of priests, the future of the Church? On CAF at least they’re far more interested in sideshows, gay marriage being a perennial favorite.

Spain has one of the most liberal LGBT policies in the world and the RCC is dying on its feet here. But look at this Unesco report (pdf) on the well-being of children (first table, page 2). Spain near the top, US and UK at the bottom. Now look at the whole table. Is there any correlation between well-being and religion? Don’t look like it to me.

Face it bro, God isn’t dead but is all but irrelevant until Christians leave their nice cozy bubbles and rejoin the real world.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

inocente

**Incest is often destructive and is genetically unwise, so no. **

But AIDS is not often destructive?

Face it bro, God isn’t dead but is all but irrelevant until Christians leave their nice cozy bubbles and rejoin the real world.

God is not dead, but I don’t think adopting pagan values is what God has in mind for us.

Seems to me you have little knowledge of what members of your own faith believe. This for example? Looks like your swimming against the Baptist stream big time.

johnstonsarchive.net/baptist/sbcabres.html

 

[inocente]

But AIDS is not often destructive?

Que? What’s AIDS got to do with the price of paella? Que? Que?

God is not dead, but I don’t think adopting pagan values is what God has in mind for us.

Ah, the old “if you don’t want anyone to call you names you must get in my cozy bubble” argument.

Seems to me you have little knowledge of what members of your own faith believe. This for example? Looks like your swimming against the Baptist stream big time.

I know Americans are poor at geography, but really dude, Europe isn’t somewhere between Alabama and Georgia.

At water baptism over here on our own continent we accept Jesus is Lord. That’s it. Hard to grasp I know but we don’t swear allegiance to the star spangled banner or to give up our God-given conscience or anything else.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

God is not a police officer!!!

 

[Betterave]

GOD IS NOT DEAD!

I wish to address the challenge that Nietzsche put forth when he stated that “God is dead”.

…]
Poustinia

This has been addressed already, but obviously you can’t do what you propose to do without understanding what Nietzsche meant when he said “God is dead.” I think part of what he meant was that God had been eviscerated, so to speak, that man could no longer really take God seriously, and so that man was now forced to become God himself, to fill that indispensable role. And that is in fact just what we see has happened in places like Spain, and in ‘Christians’ like inocente. The hollow gestures towards ‘God’ live on, but the reality is that ‘the people’ rule, morality is determined by democracy, and anyone who questions that is mocked and derided, as we see inocente doing.

inocente also effectively introduces the claim that “Catholicism is dead,” since it is out of step with the modern world. But of course that’s not at all evidence that Catholicism is dead and betrays his complete lack of understanding of what the Catholic Church fundamentally is. Of course, from our perspective, his sneering, mocking brand of bigotted ‘liberal’ Christianity is simply anti-Christian. But I think inocente is not so good in the critical thinking department, so he tends to completely ignore that (unless he is in fact not-so-inocente, and is in fact outright deshonesto).