God is not great

[ColdComfort]

God gives us opportunities to change by prompting us. If we continue to reject His promptings, it’s ultimately our fault if we land in hell: if we choose self over Him.

He doesn’t will anyone to be lost, but He doesn’t will to be worshiped and loved by ants or zombies or robots or some other mindless entities.

So: free will is a gift…to be used wisely.

You hint at what is often missed: You cannot love God without choosing to.

 

[Fiasco]

You hint at what is often missed: You cannot love God without choosing to.

Far too many miss it.
There’s no merit in loving Him if there’s no choice. After Baptism, we’re His children, not His slaves.

 

[Dcn_Terry]

Yes and they are/ will be punished for this…the same is true for all of us, if we do not make the ‘right’ choice, we will be punished and suffer for eternity for it. Whats the point of free will if you are punished for exercising it?

Just because we have free will does not mean we are free from the consequences of the choices we freely make.

 

[Dorothy]

Yes and they are/ will be punished for this…the same is true for all of us, if we do not make the ‘right’ choice, we will be punished and suffer for eternity for it. Whats the point of free will if you are punished for exercising it?

We fallen humans are given all the means we need to make the right choices. We are taught how we should pray, receive the sacraments, etc.

The angels are pure spirits, and the manner of the test that was given was suited to their understanding.
They could see at a glance what the outcome would be if they rebelled, and they did so anyway.

Humans fall and can get up again. God condemns no one to hell. When a person has chosen self and dies in their sin, when they meet the Lord at the time of their death they will turn their back on Him and choose the darkness instead.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

This leads me to the comfortable conclusion that any god (as summarised above) needs us. Without its creation, it has nothing.

Jesus died for you and for me and for everyone else. This must mean that Jesus loves all of us as he loves himself. He cannot love us in any greater way.

The life, death and resurrection of Jesus had to be planned before creation began. And still God went ahead with creation.

If someone ran into a burning building to save your life, and they died from saving you. Would you really walk away and say I don’t care about him.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Fiasco]

God, it must be dull…
Forever and ever. And ever.
Just being there.

Here’s the theory as I understand it.
There is a god that has existed forever…

How is being with God for all eternity something to be desired? Would we not be in the same quandary? – here we are, with all eternity to look at each other. Now… what to do… what to do…?

The Beatific Vision, already mentioned:

From the book “Theology and Sanity” by Frank Sheed:

www.katapi.org.uk/TandS/Ch24.html#IV

This leads me to the comfortable !!!] conclusion that any god (as summarised above) needs us. Without its creation, it has nothing.

Indeed, it seem that we are God’s reason for being.

How would you like to have earthworms as your only companions?
The gulf between us and earthworms is nothing compared with the gulf between God and the most intelligent of His creatures.

So: God needs nothing from us.

Again from “Theology and Sanity”:

www.katapi.org.uk/TandS/Ch9.html#III

It’s only ignorance (of the Truth) that causes you to give your post an odour of cynicism. We Christians aren’t stupid, as the late Hitchens thought, and as Dawkins still thinks.

**More about the doctrine of the Blessed Trinity:
**
www.katapi.org.uk/TandS/Ch6.html

Or:

www.katapi.org.uk/TandS/Ch3.html

 

[fhansen]

God, it must be dull…
Forever and ever. And ever.
Just being there.

Here’s the theory as I understand it.
There is a god that has existed forever. He created everything from nothing and holds everything in existence by his will.
He demands obedience from his most sentient creation (humankind) and, furthermore, demands exclusive worship.
This god punishes and rewards, according to the obedience and worship he receives.

I posit that such a god is not great. There is nothing great, majestic or, indeed, holy about a being that has always been there. It is what it is. There are no criteria by which to judge (i.e. which god is the greatest or the most holy; how does this god perform against these standards?). He is just there.

Objectively speaking, God seems to be a powerful spirit that can create matter at will. That’s impressive, but only by human standards. We can’t do anything like that, so anyone who can is deemed ‘great’.
I have read, time and time again, that God’s act of creation was effortless, an act of sheer will. If so, then so what? A god used its will to conjure up something. If there was no effort involved, it’s not special.

Here’s the most telling point: God spent an eternity without creating anything, then, suddenly, created everything from nothing. We had, apparently, not figured in any grand scheme until just now, like a good idea thought up over coffee. So, we are commanded to worship a god that created us for no apparent reason other than that we are to be with him for all eternity. Yes, that’s it. The reward for worshipping the god is being able to be with the god forever, doing nothing else, ever again. For ever and ever.

How is being with God for all eternity something to be desired? Would we not be in the same quandary? – here we are, with all eternity to look at each other. Now… what to do… what to do…?

This leads me to the comfortable conclusion that any god (as summarised above) needs us. Without its creation, it has nothing.

Indeed, it seem that we are God’s reason for being.

If God is not love, then He’s worthless in the long run. Love is what makes life worth living eternally. May sound precious, but it’s true. All goodness flows from this principle-and love is limitless in its ability to produce happiness. In eternity there’s no time anyway-and so no time for boredom. Only beatitude.

 

[Randy_Carson]

God, it must be dull…
Forever and ever. And ever.
Just being there.

Here’s the theory as I understand it.
There is a god that has existed forever. He created everything from nothing and holds everything in existence by his will.
He demands obedience from his most sentient creation (humankind) and, furthermore, demands exclusive worship.
This god punishes and rewards, according to the obedience and worship he receives.

I posit that such a god is not great. There is nothing great, majestic or, indeed, holy about a being that has always been there. It is what it is.

God is not great simply because He has always existed. He is great because of all of His qualities. God is Love. God is merciful. Etc.

There are no criteria by which to judge (i.e. which god is the greatest or the most holy; how does this god perform against these standards?). He is just there.

People are judged to be more or less holy in accordance with how closely they resemble the characteristics we believe that God possesses. Since nothing is or can be more god-like than God Himself, we are able to say that He is Most Holy.

As for which God is most holy, well, that would depend on your understanding of God, wouldn’t it?

Objectively speaking, God seems to be a powerful spirit that can create matter at will. That’s impressive, but only by human standards. We can’t do anything like that, so anyone who can is deemed ‘great’.

Um…yeah. That follows, logically.

If a being can create something out of nothing (and nothing is not a rare kind of stuff), that’s rather impressive, don’t you think?

I have read, time and time again, that God’s act of creation was effortless, an act of sheer will. If so, then so what? A god used its will to conjure up something. If there was no effort involved, it’s not special.

Let’s apply your logic to a human endeavor: running the 100 meter dash. Now, lots of folks have run 100 meters and many of them have been timed. Some of the great ones train really, really hard and have natural gifts which make them faster than average. They often stand on podiums and have medals placed around their necks. But Usain Bolt is in a different league. He sets world records effortlessly while mugging for the camera 10 yards from the finish line. Would you say that’s not special?



Or what about Secretariat’s 25-length win at the Belmont in 1973? You weren’t born yet, so here’s a YouTube link:

youtube.com/watch?v=vfCMtaNiMDM

And the iconic photo from the finish:



If you’re not a racing fan, what you need to know is that Secretariat ran every 1/4 mile faster than the one before; IOW, he was still accelerating at the time he crossed the finish line. He made it look effortless…but watch that video and tell me that Secretariat was not special.

Here’s the most telling point: God spent an eternity without creating anything, then, suddenly, created everything from nothing. We had, apparently, not figured in any grand scheme until just now, like a good idea thought up over coffee. So, we are commanded to worship a god that created us for no apparent reason other than that we are to be with him for all eternity. Yes, that’s it. The reward for worshipping the god is being able to be with the god forever, doing nothing else, ever again. For ever and ever.

How is being with God for all eternity something to be desired? Would we not be in the same quandary? – here we are, with all eternity to look at each other. Now… what to do… what to do…?

The reason you think you will be bored is because your own experience in this life tells you that you get bored with things after awhile. You’re restless…unfulfilled…so you put down one toy and pick up another only to grow tired of that one eventually. Being with God is not like that. God WILL fulfill you, and you will not grow restless or bored because God is that which you are endlessly searching for without success in this life.

This leads me to the comfortable conclusion that any god (as summarised above) needs us. Without its creation, it has nothing.

Indeed, it seem that we are God’s reason for being.

As the flaws in your reasoning have been pointed out, you may want to re-think this conclusion.