The definition of mortal sin precludes this. It is a complete split between oneself and God. One has until one’s death to mend this rift; at the moment of death, one’s choice is sealed, because one is no longer bound by time.I have also read the quote where if the gates of hell were opened, no one would leave. I’m not sure I agree with that.
Suppose someone dies with just one mortal sin. After spending time in hell, would there not be a chance of regret? I would think that lots of people in hell would flee, given the chance.
Read this article on hell. According to the Church, there is the “pain of loss”, stemming from loss of the joys of heaven, and the “pain of sense”, which is the result of torment by fire. An excerpt from the section on pain of sense:I have one more question. How explicit is Catholicism on what the torments of hell will be?
Because I’ve been thinking, people here on Earth who are outside of God’s kingdom in spirit engage in all kinds of unclean acts and reap natural judgments from their actions. They engage in all kinds of sins that the Bible condemns, and their treatment of other people can sometimes become horrendous. It says in the scripture that heaven is in the hearts of men, and there is a sense in which we can certainly see the truth of that in this world. When people are full of God’s love, knowing them is like encountering a piece of heaven. Being in a place full of such people feels incredibly blessed and lovely. On the other hand, some people can become very twisted, ruthless and wicked. Being around them, I’d think, would be like being in the presence of hell and the kinds of things such people do to one another or to anyone are behaviors one would expect from hell. Perhaps hell is in the hearts of some men, just as heaven is in the hearts of others?
If this is so, then after death might the judgments of hell be somewhat like the judgments on Earth? Would hell be a place of torture because the wicked people in it are allowed to live their lives and do so torturing one another and doing all manner of fiendish things to one another because they hate God and all he stands for? Would they bring their own judgments on their own heads in that way, creating the fires and tortures themselves, as they do on Earth?
Or is that idea very out of touch with Catholicism? Are there dogmas and explanations of hell in Catholicism that contradict this idea of the torture?
If heaven and hell were two separate nations established on Earth, I think we would see some of the same results as are described in the scriptures for the afterlife. The heaven kingdom might be like a great city, or very highly developed, sophisticated and blessed partly because the people in it are all working together and can make it good and wonderful. They have no disharmony and would be fully productive (I assume saints in heaven are somehow productive, even though not in the same sense as on Earth). They might make great leaps in technology and in economics because of their unity and accord. They would give to one another freely and live in blessed love and God’s light and grace. They would be filled with the Holy Spirit and so everything they did would be blessed (I’m assuming real heaven, no sinful nature).
On the other hand, the people in the other kingdom would have wholly rejected God and so would pursue evil fully. There would be no harmony amongst them. They would torture one another, brutalize one another, commit hideous acts with one another that would further destroy one another, do all kinds of perversions and villainy that would result in the destruction of their civilization very swiftly, but since they would persist in the same forms of behavior and in the same ideology, their nation would sink into endless misery and pretty much every kind of woe imaginable.
How does this picture strike you, Greg27? I am curious whether or not Catholic teaching declares it to be false.
So, we are to take it that it is an eternal fire, and probably a real, literal fire of some sort…but that it might be figurative.The poena sensus, or pain of sense, consists in the torment of fire so frequently mentioned in the Holy Bible. According to the greater number of theologians the term fire denotes a material fire, and so a real fire. We hold to this teaching as absolutely true and correct. However, we must not forget two things: from Catharinus (d. 1553) to our times there have never been wanting theologians who interpret the Scriptural term fire metaphorically, as denoting an incorporeal fire; and secondly, thus far the Church has not censured their opinion. Some few of the Fathers also thought of a metaphorical explanation. Nevertheless, Scripture and tradition speak again and again of the fire of hell, and there is no sufficient reason for taking the term as a mere metaphor. [emphasis added]
Not to mention that I long ago provided [post=2360672]catechetical[/post] and [post=2360774]biblical[/post] references for God sustaining creation, which includes Hell and the damned therein – I would guess they would much rather God cease upholding their being and allow their annihilation, but such does not seem to be the case.The fact that this issue is not mentioned in the Bible is insufficient to support your claim.
The fact that the ECF did not address this issue is insufficient to support your claim.
The fact that the Catechism does not address this issue is insufficient to support your claim.
Interesting points Dante. I suspect that most people choose mortal sin out of greed, lust, pride - pick any of the seven deadlies. The desire to reject God is secondary, and in some, probably not even a conscious thought. Not that it’s an excuse, I’m just saying that for most people, I think the desire to sin is not a result of a thought such as, “Hey God! I’m going to do XXXXX and you can’t stop me! Hah!”The definition of mortal sin precludes this. It is a complete split between oneself and God. One has until one’s death to mend this rift; at the moment of death, one’s choice is sealed, because one is no longer bound by time.
Remember: one doesn’t commit mortal sin by accident…it’s a deliberate act of the will. In other words, one chooses to reject God.
Hence the logic that, if the gates of hell were opened, nobody would leave.
Peace,
Dante
God is love, and all virtues come from him and are intrinsic to his nature. So if someone does something that is out of accord with love or some other virtue, that is a deliberate rejection of God’s nature.Interesting points Dante. I suspect that most people choose mortal sin out of greed, lust, pride - pick any of the seven deadlies. The desire to reject God is secondary, and in some, probably not even a conscious thought. Not that it’s an excuse, I’m just saying that for most people, I think the desire to sin is not a result of a thought such as, “Hey God! I’m going to do XXXXX and you can’t stop me! Hah!”
I’m really not sure of that. You know, people here on Earth often commit major sins and receive judgments here for them. There are lots of times where those people don’t repent, though. Also, people who are very bad sometimes hate goodness in other people because seeing that goodness stings their consciences.I’ve also seen some apologist writers discuss how someone who misses heaven by one mortal sin suffers less than someone who has many. If someone strives their whole life only to fall at the end, I have a hard time believing they would choose to remain in hell if the gates were opened. I’d leave!
Yes, I like to understand the justice though, and how it all works. I read about half of that article, and I’ll probably read the rest later. Interesting food for thought.Read this article on hell. According to the Church, there is the “pain of loss”, stemming from loss of the joys of heaven, and the “pain of sense”, which is the result of torment by fire. An excerpt from the section on pain of sense:
So, we are to take it that it is an eternal fire, and probably a real, literal fire of some sort…but that it might be figurative.
The bottom line, as I pointed out in another post above, is that it probably doesn’t matter. Suffice to say that hell would really be unpleasant – moreso than we could possibly imagine.
Peace,
Dante