God + Jesus = Im confused

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magic_stick

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I don’t understand, is Jesus really god in human form that came to earth or are they really two different spirits? From what I understood, jesus is the son of god, so how can jesus be really god in human form.

I am hearing both so I don’t understand. I am hoping they are two different spirts, it would just seem more special to me, but I am accepting if it’s the other way around.

Can someone explain? thank you!
 
A priest once explained to me that God the Father’s own perfect contemplation of His Self, His own fulfillment of “Know Thyself”, was actually manifested as an eternal Word: God, the Son. In having a perfect realisation of Himself, the Father actually begot the Son by the mere act of Being! Now, as the “first” two members of the Trinity contemplate each other, the intense, undying, and reckless Love (agape) they have for each other generates the Holy Ghost. Jesus Christ is the very Word of the Father of Time and Space, made incarnate by the mere flesh of a humble lady, and by the love of the Holy Ghost. This is an eternal “spiration” of God’s Existence and didn’t “happen”, at least as we understand it happening.

Remember that Jesus is always called by “Son of God”; Simon Peter said “thou art the Son of God”, so that Jesus might invest him with the Keys. Now, a king does not invest anyone with the authority of Keys unless the king himself has hierarchical, inherited authority. Likewise, Peter’s own authority goes down through the ages, as all Stewards of the House of David were dynastic, just as the king was. This fact of Peter’s authority actually helps us understand what Christ really is - that’s why I mention Peter at all. 🙂 In ancient Israel, and in Peter’s mind, when you call someone “Son of…”, you are saying he’s of the very essence of his father, and belongs to his father until he comes of age. Peter did not just call Jesus a separate Son of God the Father, but he called Jesus “of the very same essence” as the Father, by virtue of the fact that Jesus is the Son.

God only makes us use “Father” and “Son” so we can understand the Trinity from our human perspective, of course. It is unlikely that the true words describing the Trinity can ever be found on Earth, in human languages.
 
St. Patrick used the 3-leaf clover to teach the trinity. It’s one plant, one leaf really, with 3 parts. Same with God.

Remember, nothing is impossible with God, even if we are unable to understand it due to our limitations. Some things we can never fully comprehend, because we are human. The basic concept of the trinity can be known though, even if we don’t get the details.
 
Three Persons in One God: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit

scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s2c1p2.htm

Catechism of the Catholic Church: Pt. One The Profession of the Christian Faith, Section Two: I Believe in God the Father

“Christians are baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: not in their names, for there is only one God, the almighty Father, his only Son and the Holy Spirit: the Most Holy Trinity.”

"The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the “consubstantial Trinity”.83

The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire:

"The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God."84

In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."85

254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another.

"God is one but not solitary."86

“Father”, “Son”, “Holy Spirit” are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87

They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."88 The divine Unity is Triune.

255 The divine persons are relative to one another.

Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both.

While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance."89

Indeed "everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship."90

"Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son.“91”
 
magic_stick,

the very best explanation I have ever read to aid in understanding the Trinity (which by the way is beyond our finite minds) is found in Frank Sheed’s classic work: THEOLOGY AND SANITY. You may wish to pick up a copy of that. I have found that to be an indispensible guide to understanding many aspects of our Catholic faith.

The explanation given by the priest mentioned in Glorious Order’s reply to you is very similar to Frank Sheed’s explanation.
 
The Father and the Son don’t really present many problems for me, it’s the Holy Spirit that always trips me up. The way I understand the Father and the Son is a rather silly way, but it works for me. I could be very wrong on this, so please, offer corrections people!

The Father is… well, God. He is the head of The Trinity, the Founding Essence on which the other Persons are grounded. (The Son, and The Holy Spirit.) All of His thoughts, feelings and intentions remain hidden until He either acts, or, speaks. Jesus is the spoken or written, Word of God. Or in another way the Voice of God that comes from His Heart. “From the overflow of the Heart, the Mouth Speaks.” The overflow of God’s heart, based on the evidence of His Word is Love, love, and one more thing, what was it now? Oh yeah! Love! You get a tremendous look at His personality by looking a His Word.

The Word of God (Jesus) to me, seems to be the overflow of God’s heart. You could even call Him a child simply because He originates from the Founding Essence that we call The Father. Though they’re unique (The will that speaks, and the word that’s spoken) In essence, they are the same Being. They are One.

The Father is in the Son, and the Son is in the Father, they are One.
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It’s similar to you and to your voice. They seem like two different things, but in essence, they’re really only one because there’s only one you.

As I said, I could be very wrong, so don’t take this as fact, this is simply how I understand it. And whats more is that I probably didn’t explain it well, so sorry if it’s even more confusing now. 😊
 
Jesness said:
The Father and the Son don’t really present many problems for me, it’s the Holy Spirit that always trips me up. The way I understand the Father and the Son is a rather silly way, but it works for me. I could be very wrong on this, so please, offer corrections people!

The Father is… well, God. He is the head of The Trinity, the Founding Essence on which the other Persons are grounded. (The Son, and The Holy Spirit.) All of His thoughts, feelings and intentions remain hidden until He either acts, or, speaks. Jesus is the spoken or written, Word of God. Or in another way the Voice of God that comes from His Heart. “From the overflow of the Heart, the Mouth Speaks.” The overflow of God’s heart, based on the evidence of His Word is Love, love, and one more thing, what was it now? Oh yeah! Love! You get a tremendous look at His personality by looking a His Word.

The Word of God (Jesus) to me, seems to be the overflow of God’s heart. You could even call Him a child simply because He originates from the Founding Essence that we call The Father. Though they’re unique (The will that speaks, and the word that’s spoken) In essence, they are the same Being. They are One.

The Father is in the Son, and the Son is in the Father, they are One.
.
It’s similar to you and to your voice. They seem like two different things, but in essence, they’re really only one because there’s only one you.

As I said, I could be very wrong, so don’t take this as fact, this is simply how I understand it. And whats more is that I probably didn’t explain it well, so sorry if it’s even more confusing now. 😊
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In the old Baltimore Catechism, reviled today by many the relationship was described very simply. There was a drawing of a circle which had threee circles inside it each of which had a spoke to the center. The center was listed as God. The three circles were listed as the Son, the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was not Jesus nor the Father, but He was God. Jesus was not the Father nor the Holy Spirit, but He was God, The Father was not Jesus nor the Holy Spirit, but he was God. Three distinct personalites, thre separate beings all of which, combined are. God.
 
palmas855 said:
In the old Baltimore Catechism, reviled today by many the relationship was described very simply. There was a drawing of a circle which had threee circles inside it each of which had a spoke to the center. The center was listed as God. The three circles were listed as the Son, the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was not Jesus nor the Father, but He was God. Jesus was not the Father nor the Holy Spirit, but He was God, The Father was not Jesus nor the Holy Spirit, but he was God. Three distinct personalites, thre separate beings all of which, combined are. God.
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:yup:

I believe it; I just don’t fully understand it. At least not when it comes to the Holy Spirit. I do believe He is God though. I don’t doubt that one bit.
 
magic_stick said:
I don’t understand, is Jesus really god in human form that came to earth or are they really two different spirits? From what I understood, jesus is the son of god, so how can jesus be really god in human form.

I am hearing both so I don’t understand. I am hoping they are two different spirts, it would just seem more special to me, but I am accepting if it’s the other way around.

Can someone explain? thank you!
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Jesus is God. The Son was not created - He always was and Is. God the Son took human flesh - Jesus. Jesus’ physical Body did not exist from all eternity but was created in the womb of the Blessed Virgin on the day of the Annunciation. At that point God the Son took on our humanity. Humans consist of both an immortal soul and a physical body. Christ, in taking our humanity, took on both the physical body and a human soul while always remaining God. Jesus is both true God and true man. This is known as the hypostatic union. God the Son now consists of two natures (Human and Divine) but is ONE Divine Person. There are not two persons but ONE Person and that Person is Divine.

I hope this helps.
 
Matt_CL said:
magic_stick,

the very best explanation I have ever read to aid in understanding the Trinity (which by the way is beyond our finite minds) is found in Frank Sheed’s classic work: THEOLOGY AND SANITY. You may wish to pick up a copy of that. I have found that to be an indispensible guide to understanding many aspects of our Catholic faith.

The explanation given by the priest mentioned in Glorious Order’s reply to you is very similar to Frank Sheed’s explanation.
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👍
 
magic_stick said:
I don’t understand, is Jesus really god in human form that came to earth or are they really two different spirits? From what I understood, jesus is the son of god, so how can jesus be really god in human form.

I am hearing both so I don’t understand. I am hoping they are two different spirts, it would just seem more special to me, but I am accepting if it’s the other way around.

Can someone explain? thank you!
Click to expand...
The Holy Trinity is Dogma. GOD is one GOD in three divine Persons - the Father - the Son and the Holy Ghost.

Most of the Early Heresies sought to Divide GOD in one form or another which prompted the Council of Nicea to define in more Detail the Apostles Creed which is why we have the Nicene Creed today which is recited at Catholic Mass It sums up perfectly the Trinity.

We believe (I believe) in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, and born of the Father before all ages. (God of God) light of light, true God of true God. Begotten not made, consubstantial to the Father, by whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven. And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary and was made man; was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried; and the third day rose again according to the Scriptures. And ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, of whose Kingdom there shall be no end. And (I believe) in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father (and the Son), who together with the Father and the Son is to be adored and glorified, who spoke by the Prophets. And one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We confess (I confess) one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for (I look for) the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."
 
this is the my formula;

God the Father + Son + Holy Spirit = God the Father + Son + Holy Spirit
 
ToJesuswithMary said:
this is the my formula;

God the Father + Son + Holy Spirit = God the Father + Son + Holy Spirit
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I like your formula. 👍

The analogy with the clover is - one clover; three leaves - not three parts. Small difference, but makes a big difference in the explanation. The Persons of the Trinity are not “parts” of God - each of them is entirely God - just as each leaf of a clover is 100% clover.
 
This is a very helpful thread. I wondered the same thing.

When Jesus prayed in the Garden to God, I always was confused because I didn’t know why He was praying to Himself? Also, when it says that God sent an angel to comfort Jesus…what does that mean? Did Jesus send an angel to Himself?
 
magic_stick said:
I don’t understand, is Jesus really god in human form that came to earth or are they really two different spirits? From what I understood, jesus is the son of god, so how can jesus be really god in human form.

I am hearing both so I don’t understand. I am hoping they are two different spirts, it would just seem more special to me, but I am accepting if it’s the other way around.

Can someone explain? thank you!
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I recommend a book called Theology For Beginners by F.J. Sheed.
 
I realized that I never replied back to this thread. I wanted to thank everyone for their replies, it was very helpful!
 
dailey said:
This is a very helpful thread. I wondered the same thing.

When Jesus prayed in the Garden to God, I always was confused because I didn’t know why He was praying to Himself? Also, when it says that God sent an angel to comfort Jesus…what does that mean? Did Jesus send an angel to Himself?
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Hahaha. This is what gets me too. I think I understand it, and than something like this comes to my mind. If Jesus is the Son, praying to his Father, how is he God himself?
 
Bwtby said:
Hahaha. This is what gets me too. I think I understand it, and than something like this comes to my mind. If Jesus is the Son, praying to his Father, how is he God himself?
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One God, three Persons.

Just as each of the three leaves of a clover is 100% clover, so also, each of the three Persons of God is 100% God. 🙂
 
I kind of try to explain it like this

liguid water = H2O
stolid water/ice= H2O
gas water/ steam = H2O

the Father = God
the Son = God
the Holy Sprit = God

wate is not ice nor steam but both are H2O
the father is not the Son but both are God
water and ice are not steam but all 3 are H2O

the father and the son are not the Holy Spirit but all there are God

3 beings one substance.

I dont think I have said any thing that is herecy and if I have please correct me It is a picture helps me understand the Trinity
 
Some explanations on this thread are great, some are imperfect, and analogies are always imperfect!

Painting a picture of the Trinity is difficult, but we are point to the little things we know:

The Father is God
The Son is God
The Spirit is God
There is only one God
God does not have three parts, but He is in Three Persons, they are each fully God
The Father is not the Son or the Spirit
The Son is not the Father or the Spirit
The Spirit is not the Father or the Son

There is one Divine Nature, One Substance, One Essence, One Will, but there are Three Persons

St. Augustine wrote that the Father is the one that generates (source of the Trinity), the Son is particularly the one that is begotten or is generated. The Spirit is the Communion of Love between them (beautiful image)!

We can also say the three Persons are CO-EQUAL, CO-ETERNAL and CON-SUBSTANTIAL. They must be because each is Divine, God, and God cannot be greater or lesser, must be eternal, and there is only one Divine Substance.

There is the concept of the “economic Trinity” which is how each Person interacts differently with creation (e.g. the Father revealed first, who sends His Son, who sends the Spirit) but this does not mean that the Divine Persons are the same and just known by different actions – that is the heresy of modalism.

The clover analogy is good but remember the Persons are not “parts” of God – imagine an impossible clover where each leaf really is the whole clover.

The ice/water/steam analogy is good too, but remember that the Persons are not different forms of God, they are different co-equal/co-eternal/consubstantial Persons. We can’t take the analogy too literally because ice/water/steam are just different forms of H2O.

I also recommend you go to Sheed!
 
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