God Loves Homosexuals

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blessedtoo said:
In fact, we love them SO much we want to see them in heaven. We want our families and friends to have the chance to meet their Heavenly Father. We want them to have full and grace-filled lives while they are here on earth. We actually treat them with more dignity and equality than the pandering liberals who clearly believe that they are too “sensitive” to hear and understand the truth.
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Thank you for standing up for the truth.
It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church’s pastors wherever it occurs. It reveals a kind of disregard for others which endangers the most fundamental principles of a healthy society. The intrinsic dignity of each person must always be respected in word, in action and in law.
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But the proper reaction to crimes committed against homosexual persons should not be to claim that the homosexual condition is not disordered…

…What is at all costs to be avoided is the unfounded and demeaning assumption that the sexual behaviour of homosexual persons is always and totally compulsive and therefore inculpable. What is essential is that the fundamental liberty which characterizes the human person and gives him his dignity be recognized as belonging to the homosexual person as well. As in every conversion from evil, the abandonment of homosexual activity will require a profound collaboration of the individual with God’s liberating grace…
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Publisher said:
To claim that 6000 year old bedouins have a better grasp on human sexuality than modern science and psychaiatry is dabbling in superstition…it’s not my intention to begin name calling…it is an opinion…don’t be threatend by my opinion, I am not threatened by yours.
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  1. If you discount the writers of the Scriptures as superstitous bedouins, you and I have nothing to discuss in common as Christians.
  2. Seems to me that referring to them as such can’t be considered anything but name-calling.
  3. “Modern science and psychaiatry” have not proven anything about homosexuality. And keep in mind it was “modern science” that brought us Nazi eugenics, the atomic bomb, and all weapons of modern warfare and destruction. Hardly a moral compass to rely on.
  4. I am not “threatened” in the least by your opinion (unless you consider everyone who disagrees with you to feel threatened). You are fully entitled to be wrong. 🙂
 
Fidelis said:
  1. If you discount the writers of the Scriptures as superstitous bedouins, you and I have nothing to discuss in common as Christians.
B]IB] do not discount the writers as “superstitious bedouins”…some of their views and beliefs are superstitious. We most likely have much in common as Christians, but this area of how gay people are to be treated and discussed is where we most likely have little in common and find it difficult to speak to one another.
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  1. Seems to me that referring to them as such can’t be
    considered anything but name-calling.
"Superstitious bedouins" who had “household gods” in their possesion…superstitious bedouins who believed that spirits prowled the desert nights. That some of the bedouins in scripture were superstitious is not “name calling”…you not wanting to discuss issues because I used such terms, and with good reason, is an issue I cannot “fix”. You choose to take offense where no offense was intended…that is an issue in and of itself which stiffles discussion.
  1. I am not “threatened” in the least by your opinion (unless you consider everyone who disagrees with you to feel threatened). You are fully entitled to be wrong. 🙂
No, that is not the case. And both of us are entitled to be wrong…but that shouldn’t stop discussion between us.
 
TMC said:
I’m glad that Courage has been helpful to you. But, with respect, it is simply incorrect to say that anything about the causes of homosexuality has been “proven”. It is certainly untrue that 100% of homosexuals have been abused or have had neglectful parents. I know homosexuals who fit none of those categories. Does Courage explicitly teach this? I did not see it on their website. The Church has not taken a position on the cause of homosexuality. The Catechism says it is “largely unexplained.”

It is difficult to even study this issue because the answers are so tied up in politics. Most scientific work seems to point to multiple factors and a mix of in-born tendencies and environmental factors. One landmark study looked at identical twins that were seperated at birth and raised seperately. It found that if one were gay the other was also gay 55% of the time. If this were a purely genetic determination that should be 100%. But if purely environmental, it should be less than 10%. So it appears that both probably play a factor. Also, “environment” does not just mean parenting or abuse, it could be that a genetic predisposition is activated by seemingly unrelated triggers.

But for those that feel strongly that homosexuality is or is not inborn, would proving that one way or another effect your view on the morality of homosexual acts?
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Thank you! You beat me to it! 😃

One other note on the previous comments. I know some homosexuals who get a lot of flack for being what they are. they face an enourmous amount of pressure from the general population including family and friends to change their orientation. I find it hard to believe that they would purposefully “choose” this lifestyle knowing the incredible hardships and discrimination they will face. So I can not believe homosexuality is simply a choice. For some this may be the case, especially because our society is increasingly accepting and almost encouraging it. But for those who can’t help it and are ashamed of themselves, and hated by the majority of those they care about, nothing you will say can make me believe they simply “choose” to be gay.
 
I’ve found that homosexual couples are TONS happier than heterosexual couples and have far LESS problems in a relationship (that’s just my findings, I’m not speaking for others here)

Why would God want anyone to not be happy?

Sounds like a selfish God.

/discuss
 
psyche23 said:
Thank you! You beat me to it! 😃

One other note on the previous comments. I know some homosexuals who get a lot of flack for being what they are. they face an enourmous amount of pressure from the general population including family and friends to change their orientation. I find it hard to believe that they would purposefully “choose” this lifestyle knowing the incredible hardships and discrimination they will face. So I can not believe homosexuality is simply a choice. For some this may be the case, especially because our society is increasingly accepting and almost encouraging it. But for those who can’t help it and are ashamed of themselves, and hated by the majority of those they care about, nothing you will say can make me believe they simply “choose” to be gay.
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Agreed. I am surprised that so many seek to create a “blanket” cause for homosexuality. From my reading and discussion with gay people, there are myriad of reasons that contribute to the fact that some people turn out gay.

Nurture is a factor in some areas I am sure…biology is another factor in some areas I am sure. However once sexual orientation is established, either in the womb through biological reasons or by “nurture” shortly after birth, it is unchangeable.

For those “gay people” who “change”, there may be a wide variety of reasons as to the “hows” and “whys” of those changes…IF…IF human sexuality has it’s ranges from completely homosexual on one end and completely heterosexual on the other, then those who would perhaps be closer to the “bisexual” center, who have predominately homosexual “leanings” then it would be possible for them to “choose” to act on a desire to engage in strictly heterosexual behavior. The fact…FACT…that the large number of men and women who join the “ex-gay” movement return to their origianl sexual orientation would lead me to believe sexual orientation is more fixed and unchangeable than not.

Those who do make the change are are happy, the gay men and women I have met have no problem with, but they do not wish another’s sexual orientation imposed upon them…when they know their own sexual orientation is fixed and unchangeable.

Some anecdotal evidence on either side is not sufficient evidence…it simply is more evidence that the range of sexual orientation does indeed run the gammit between strictly homosexual and strictly heterosexual and every “flavor” in between.

If sexuality is fixed and unchaneable, those of more progressive beliefs and those of more conservative beliefs on scripture and church have a difficult task ahead of them in discussing this issue. Some see no just cause to impose religious beliefs to demand adherance to a life of celibacy…some see another option, a sexual ethic grounded in scripture, but encompassing gay, straight and bisexual persons in a Christian framework…not everyone is happy with this arrangement…but the options are there.
 
A chaste homosexual has absolutely no reason to declare himself to anyone. If they do its to advance the agenda.

The same goes for anyone with disordered tendencies. No need to declare yourself. Your fight is personal and with God’s grace anything can be overcome.
 
buffalo said:
A chaste homosexual has absolutely no reason to declare himself to anyone. If they do its to advance the agenda.

The same goes for anyone with disordered tendencies. No need to declare yourself. Your fight is personal and with God’s grace anything can be overcome.
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A gay person who does not embrace your idea of “disorder” should not feel they have to stay in the closet out of fear of reprisal…but many do wish to keep gay people in the closet…out of sight…out of mind…sad.
 
AndrewLong said:
I’ve found that homosexual couples are TONS happier than heterosexual couples and have far LESS problems in a relationship (that’s just my findings, I’m not speaking for others here)

Why would God want anyone to not be happy?

Sounds like a selfish God.

/discuss
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Happy? Again, another subjective scale to be followed. Smoking makes people happy. Is it good for them? Being happy is not the test because the acts that makes us “happy” may be good or evil.

This goes back to the sincerity test. We can be happy and wrong. We can be sincere and wrong.
 
fix said:
Happy? Again, another subjective scale to be followed. Smoking makes people happy. Is it good for them? Being happy is not the test because the acts that makes us “happy” may be good or evil.

This goes back to the sincerity test. We can be happy and wrong. We can be sincere and wrong.
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Then God wants people to be unhappy all the time?

There’s nothing wrong with smoking, either.
 
Publisher said:
If sexuality is fixed and unchaneable, those of more progressive beliefs and those of more conservative beliefs on scripture and church have a difficult task ahead of them in discussing this issue. Some see no just cause to impose religious beliefs to demand adherance to a life of celibacy…some see another option, a sexual ethic grounded in scripture, but encompassing gay, straight and bisexual persons in a Christian framework…not everyone is happy with this arrangement…but the options are there.
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All types of things may be on a continuum. Does that mean there is no way to be sure what our natures really were designed to be?

Is a blind man designed to be blind simply because he is blind?
 
AndrewLong said:
Then God wants people to be unhappy all the time?
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Nope. Does God want people to derive pleasure from immoral things?
There’s nothing wrong with smoking, either.
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Not morally, but it does cause health problems for most people. Is pleasure good in and of itself regardless of the antecent actions?
 
Publisher said:
A gay person who does not embrace your idea of “disorder” should not feel they have to stay in the closet out of fear of reprisal…but many do wish to keep gay people in the closet…out of sight…out of mind…sad.
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Society has a right to regulate deviant behaviors for the common good. That is why we have rule of law.

Demanding we accept and embrace deviant behaviors goes against the common good.

Coming out of the closet is announcing that I want to live the “gay” lifestyle and I want you to embrace and champion it.

I will go back to the pedophile orientation example that was called a red herring. Whether it be a same sex orientation, a violent orientation, or child abuse, etc. orientation the expression of the tendency is deviant. Society should not be expected to embrace any of these as normal.
 
fix said:
Nope. Does God want people to derive pleasure from immoral things?

Not morally, but it does cause health problems for most people. Is pleasure good in and of itself regardless of the antecent actions?
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What a closed minded God we have.

Shame.
 
AndrewLong said:
What a closed minded God we have.

Shame.
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Huh? God is “closed minded” because He refuses to accept our fallen desires as good?

It seems you argue that simply declaring happiness is justification for our actions. Where does that lead you think?
 
fix said:
Huh? God is “closed minded” because He refuses to accept our fallen desires as good?

It seems you argue that simply declaring happiness is justification for our actions. Where does that lead you think?
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No, because he considers them “fallen desires”.
 
fix said:
This is interesting to me. So, any desire we experience is good?
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Well, not necessarily…I just don’t understand why God would look down upon two Homosexual beings that still absolutely love him, but execute free will that he gave them.
 
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