God Loves Homosexuals

[Publisher]

Slavery and Christianity

By modern standards slavery is immoral…institutionalized by religions or not.

 

[buffalo]

By modern standards slavery is immoral…institutionalized by religions or not.

What about the charge that the Catholic Church did not condemn slavery until the 1890s and actually approved of it before then?

 

[blessedtoo]

I enjoy Christian history very much…some of my favorite authors are Burton Mack, Bart Erhman, Eilene Pagels, Joan O’Grady and Jacob McCoby…very informative. I am in a constant search and study of “Truth”, it has been and will continue to be a life changing endeavor. But I thank you for your counsel none the less.

Perhaps reading authors that openly dissent from traditional Christian theology is part of the problem. This has been pointed out before on other threads. A steady diet of writings by “theologians” who seek to expose the “Christian Myth” (title of Burton Mack’s essay) will inevitably lead to all types of dissent.

The issue, as I see it, is this:

So you do not believe that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God?

No I don’t…it is a very human record and work. It is a very human endeavor to explain “God” the “Eternal”…the “Infinite”…in very human finte words.

They were simply one voice among a myriad of voices who sought to explain the message of Jesus of Nazareth. They used means of bringing together their message many of the other groups simply didn’t choose to use.

******I’m not too worried who is “right” or “wrong” on scriptural interpretation, I don’t believe we will ever understand the Eternal and Infinte with temporal language and finte minds. Scripture is man’s “take” on seeking to explain the Eternal, and it is very much a product of it’s time and location. ******

In your view, the authors of Scripture and modern “theologians” like those you mentioned are all equal and can claim the same “authority” to speak on matters of faith and morals. St. Paul, St. John, St. Augustine, and St. Irenaeus are all interchangeable with Burton Mack, Bart Erhman, Eilene Pagels.

 

[Publisher]

Perhaps reading authors that openly dissent from traditional Christian theology is part of the problem. This has been pointed out before on other threads. A steady diet of writings by “theologians” who seek to expose the “Christian Myth” (title of Burton Mack’s essay) will inevitably lead to all types of dissent.

The issue, as I see it, is this:

**I have read very conservative authors as well…I don’t find them compelling. **

In your view, the authors of Scripture and modern “theologians” like those you mentioned are all equal and can claim the same “authority” to speak on matters of faith and morals. St. Paul, St. John, St. Augustine, and St. Irenaeus are all interchangeable with Burton Mack, Bart Erhman, Eilene Pagels.

**I do not believe any of the above “theologians” are able to speak with any “authority” for God on matters of faith and morals…be they Eilene Pagels or Augustine. **

 

[buffalo]

The Church and Slavery

 

[buffalo]

**I do not believe any of the above “theologians” are able to speak with any “authority” for God on matters of faith and morals…be they Eilene Pagels or Augustine. **

The Apostle’s?

 

[Publisher]

For Catholics who wish to embrace the teaching of their church as the “authority” I say “Great!”… I do not embrace the teaching authority of the “magisterium” of the Catholic church. For those who wish to put themselves under it’s authority that is their decision.

It should be kept out of secular decisions based on law.

Homosexuals should be provided equal rights under the law…that some religious bodies find the evidence of a more liberal view on human sexuality should come as no surprise. I do not embrace Catholic belief…nor it’s authority.

 

[buffalo]

For Catholics who wish to embrace the teaching of their church as the “authority” I say “Great!”… I do not embrace the teaching authority of the “magisterium” of the Catholic church. For those who wish to put themselves under it’s authority that is their decision.

It should be kept out of secular decisions based on law.

Homosexuals should be provided equal rights under the law…that some religious bodies find the evidence of a more liberal view on human sexuality should come as no surprise. I do not embrace Catholic belief…nor it’s authority.

That is pretty clear. You accept your own authority. Don’t you see the problem in this? You did not discover anything yourself. All you know has been handed down to you by others.

 

[fix]

For Catholics who wish to embrace the teaching of their church as the “authority” I say “Great!”… I do not embrace the teaching authority of the “magisterium” of the Catholic church. For those who wish to put themselves under it’s authority that is their decision.

The natural moral law binds us all, no matter what we claim.

It should be kept out of secular decisions based on law.

Why? What is the civil law to be based on?

Homosexuals should be provided equal rights under the law…

Yes, equal rights. Not special rights, or a license, to do what is wrong.

that some religious bodies find the evidence of a more liberal view on human sexuality should come as no surprise. I do not embrace Catholic belief…nor it’s authority.

Some may reject 2+2=4. That does not make the rejection correct.

 

[Publisher]

The Apostle"s?

The writings of the New Testament are not some magical tome. They are “testimonies” of what those at the end of the first century and those of the beginning of the second had come to understand about Jesus of Nazareth…but they were very human testimonies.

“Thee tells me what the apostles say…but what can thee say…” We learn from history…we learn from the Light…I don’t embrace a first century world view…I study and read scripture to see what those who went before me believed…what they believed from a first century point of view.

 

[buffalo]

The writings of the New Testament are not some magical tome. They are “testimonies” of what those at the end of the first century and those of the beginning of the second had come to understand about Jesus of Nazareth…but they were very human testimonies.

“Thee tells me what the apostles say…but what can thee say…” We learn from history…we learn from the Light…I don’t embrace a first century world view…I study and read scripture to see what those who went before me believed…what they believed from a first century point of view.

Let me suumarize - you believe St Paul admonished the homosexual act, but it’s not relevant anymore?

 

[Freshman88]

No I don’t…it is a very human record and work. It is a very human endeavor to explain “God” the “Eternal”…the “Infinite”…in very human finte words.

pfff, what good is that to me? what good is that to anyone? What good is some kind of vague understanding of the infinite that has no authority? If that is the case… religion is a waste of time and I’ll have nothing to do with it.

I want a way out of suffering, I want purpouse, I want satisfaction. Some vague unauthoritative understanding of the infinite will never satisfy what my soul ultimately yearns for… salvation. I need facts, not guesses. I need the infinite as it is, not a guess.

And if all thats all that there is out there - guesses and speculation - well then, I guess we’re all screwed. Might as well do as I please.

 

[Publisher]

The natural moral law binds us all, no matter what we claim.

Why? What is the civil law to be based on?

Yes, equal rights. Not special rights, or a license, to do what is wrong.

Some may reject 2+2=4. That does not make the rejection correct.

I am a “liberal”…unashamedly…I do not embrace conservative Catholic beliefs. I do not believe in “special rights” either…but I do work for and embrace equal rights for gay people. The Society of Friends has worked for equal rights for gay men and lesbian women since the '50’s.

We will not come to agreement it would seem…we have two radically different religious world views…but that’s ok with me. I’m all for diversity.

 

[Publisher]

pfff, what good is that to me? what good is that to anyone? What good is some kind of vague understanding of the infinite that has no authority? If that is the case… religion is a waste of time and I’ll have nothing to do with it.

I want a way out of suffering, I want purpouse, I want satisfaction. Some vague unauthoritative understanding of the infinite will never satisfy what my soul ultimately yearns for… salvation. I need facts, not guesses. I need the infinite as it is, not a guess.

And if all thats all that there is out there - guesses and speculation - well then, I guess we’re all screwed. Might as well do as I please.

You’ll need to look deep within yourself…there you’ll find the Divine Center…there is wholeness and completness there. I don’t live with “guesses and speculation”…I live in a “certain hope”…God is known experientially…immediately…God is Present in the Eternal Now.

Follow the Light Within…it is a Sure and Perfect Guide. God is a Present Reality…a Living Presence who is so much a part of us, we are joined in the Living Silence of Holy Presence.

 

[Valke2]

I am a “liberal”…unashamedly…I do not embrace conservative Catholic beliefs. I do not believe in “special rights” either…but I do work for and embrace equal rights for gay people. The Society of Friends has worked for equal rights for gay men and lesbian women since the '50’s.

We will not come to agreement it would seem…we have two radically different religious world views…but that’s ok with me. I’m all for diversity.

Homosexuals are against diversity. That’s why they stick to the same sex!

 

[Publisher]

Let me suumarize - you believe St Paul admonished the homosexual act, but it’s not relevant anymore?

Paul’s teachings on sexuality were based on a first century world view. Paul does not address the complexities of human sexuality…nor does he provide a sexual ethic based on such complexities.

 

[buffalo]

Paul’s teachings on sexuality were based on a first century world view. Paul does not address the complexities of human sexuality…nor does he provide a sexual ethic based on such complexities.

Got it. Prove your claim.

 

[fix]

I am a “liberal”…unashamedly…I do not embrace conservative Catholic beliefs. I do not believe in “special rights” either…but I do work for and embrace equal rights for gay people. The Society of Friends has worked for equal rights for gay men and lesbian women since the '50’s.

We will not come to agreement it would seem…we have two radically different religious world views…but that’s ok with me. I’m all for diversity.

It is not about liberal or conservative though. It is about right and wrong. Simply redefining bad actions as good does not change them.

 

[Freshman88]

You’ll need to look deep within yourself…there you’ll find the Divine Center…there is wholeness and completness there. I don’t live with “guesses and speculation”…I live in a “certain hope”…God is known experientially…immediately…God is Present in the Eternal Now.

Follow the Light Within…it is a Sure and Perfect Guide. God is a Present Reality…a Living Presence who is so much a part of us, we are joined in the Living Silence of Holy Presence.

Oh wait, so there is an authority - but that authority is within me? So it seems that the infinite isn’t quite as vast as I thought it was, rather, it is restricted to me.

Well that inner light within me, which I like to call reason, says there is nothing here - I need to look outside of myself. I for one like to think that I am not the centre of the universe.

 

[fix]

Paul’s teachings on sexuality were based on a first century world view. Paul does not address the complexities of human sexuality…nor does he provide a sexual ethic based on such complexities.

How is that proof of what is good or evil?