God Loves Homosexuals

[Freshman88]

It is not about liberal or conservative though. It is about right and wrong. Simply redefining bad actions as good does not change them.

To add to your point, there is no such thing as a conservative/liberal Catholic.
There is simply Orthodoxy and heresy. Right and wrong.

The Church doesn’t allow room for conservatives or liberals, just the faithful.

 

[Publisher]

Oh wait, so there is an authority - but that authority is within me? So it seems that the infinite isn’t quite as vast as I thought it was, rather, it is restricted to me.

Well that inner light within me, which I like to call reason, says there is nothing here - I need to look outside of myself. I for one like to think that I am not the centre of the universe.

If you find direction for your life in the teachings of the Catholic church then follow those teachings to the best of your ability. If you find direction by believing that the scriptures are an infallible source of authority to you…then follow those beliefs.

I have found a faith that answers my deepest needs…I have found a faith that “speaks to my condition”…May you be faithful to the Voice that “speaks to your condition.”

 

[buffalo]

What publisher adheres to is primacy of conscience. However, we all know what a malformed conscience can allow.

Here is a challenge to publisher.

Test whether yor conscience is fully formed or malformed.

 

[blessedtoo]

For Catholics who wish to embrace the teaching of their church as the “authority” I say “Great!”… I do not embrace the teaching authority of the “magisterium” of the Catholic church. For those who wish to put themselves under it’s authority that is their decision.

Again, this is not just Catholic teaching. It is not just first century teaching. Every generation shows it arrogance when it asserts it’s modern “understanding” to be greater than traditional wisdom.

It should be kept out of secular decisions based on law.

As a self-professed “liberal”, you would probably enjoy reading this:
amazon.com/Future-Marriage-David-Blankenhorn/dp/1594030812
Written from a secular position and by a professed “liberal”, it provides a comprehensive anthropological history of the institution of marriage which has always been between one man and one woman. Without a hint of discrimination (and in fact, a great deal of empathy for homosexuals), the author makes the case for defending traditional marriage. You stated you appreciate diverse opinions so you should be open to reading such a book.

 

[Publisher]

That is pretty clear. You accept your own authority. Don’t you see the problem in this? You did not discover anything yourself. All you know has been handed down to you by others.

No, not really a problem at all. I discovered that gay people are simply “people”…different, but people still. There was a time when I embraced a more…“conservative” view to the point I held similar views as you… but that was decades ago…I came to know some gay people…some good honest caring people who lived the Truth out before me in such a way I was no longer able to see them in the same way…I have embraced a belief system that makes sense to me…I do not follow blindly…I do not believe you follow blindly either…your belief system makes sense to you…mine does to me.

 

[Freshman88]

What publisher adheres to is primacy of conscience. However, we all know what a malformed conscience can allow.

Here is a challenge to publisher.

Test whether yor conscience is fully formed or malformed.

This should be good

 

[fix]

If you find direction for your life in the teachings of the Catholic church then follow those teachings to the best of your ability. If you find direction by believing that the scriptures are an infallible source of authority to you…then follow those beliefs.

I have found a faith that answers my deepest needs…I have found a faith that “speaks to my condition”…May you be faithful to the Voice that “speaks to your condition.”

Will you explain how this is anything other than moral relativism?

 

[Publisher]

What publisher adheres to is primacy of conscience. However, we all know what a malformed conscience can allow.

Here is a challenge to publisher.

Test whether yor conscience is fully formed or malformed.

My “malformed conscience” is separate from the Light of Christ…the Light Within transforms and guides our conscience…I will bow to the Light always…I trust in the Living Presence.

 

[buffalo]

No, not really a problem at all. I discovered that gay people are simply “people”…different, but people still. There was a time when I embraced a more…“conservative” view to the point I held similar views as you… but that was decades ago…I came to know some gay people…some good honest caring people who lived the Truth out before me in such a way I was no longer able to see them in the same way…I have embraced a belief system that makes sense to me…I do not follow blindly…I do not believe you follow blindly either…your belief system makes sense to you…mine does to me.

Only one can be right. I know good and caring gay people too. That is an emotional sell.

How did these loving and caring people live the truth out?

 

[Freshman88]

No, not really a problem at all. I discovered that gay people are simply “people”…different, but people still. .

We believe they are simply people too… and the problem has nothing to do with difference.

Oh well, truth isn’t that important it seems … whatever way the wind blows eh? Afterall, we’re all right.

 

[Publisher]

Will you explain how this is anything other than moral relativism?

We all must choose a “compass” to guide our lives…I have chosen mine, you have chosen yours. There is a component of “moral relativism” in what both of us believes…you wish to trust in a moral authority such as the Catholic church…I do not believe the Catholic church is a final source of authority, you do.

 

[Freshman88]

My “malformed conscience” is separate from the Light of Christ…the Light Within transforms and guides our conscience…I will bow to the Light always…I trust in the Living Presence.

Yes but how do you discern the light from a malfromed conscience? How do you know when which one is speaking?

 

[Publisher]

We believe they are simply people too… and the problem has nothing to do with difference.

Oh well, truth isn’t that important it seems … whatever way the wind blows eh? Afterall, we’re all right.

Truth is important…so I commend you to the Truth…live it before all men and have this Truth perfected in you.

 

[Freshman88]

We all must choose a “compass” to guide our lives…I have chosen mine, you have chosen yours. There is a component of “moral relativism” in what both of us believes…you wish to trust in a moral authority such as the Catholic church…I do not believe the Catholic church is a final source of authority, you do.

right, so what you believe is moral relativism.

 

[blessedtoo]

You’ll need to look deep within yourself…there you’ll find the Divine Center…there is wholeness and completness there. I don’t live with “guesses and speculation”…I live in a “certain hope”…God is known experientially…immediately…God is Present in the Eternal Now.

Follow the Light Within…it is a Sure and Perfect Guide. God is a Present Reality…a Living Presence who is so much a part of us, we are joined in the Living Silence of Holy Presence.

Your description here of the spiritual journey reads like the top ten New Age book picks or the self-help shelf of the library. I know that sounds uncharitable, and I don’t mean it that way, but there is no difference between what you espouse and what Oprah “preaches” on her talk show everyday at four o’clock. It is intentionally ambiguous, sprinkled with just enough truisms to make it sound viable, and ultimately appealing because it demands so little from it’s followers.

As another poster stated, if the God I believe in purposely left us with so little trustworthy guidance and clarity, I would have to leave the Church as well. His truth is not ambiguous or confused. He is not as short-sighted as you seem to think, to have left us direction that would only apply to certain people at certain times. He is not, IMO, “Light”, “wholeness”, “living silence” and all the other new age buzzwords. He is a Man, in the person of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. He is definable, visible, and pretty easy to find if you look for Him.

 

[Freshman88]

Truth is important…so I commend you to the Truth…live it before all men and have this Truth perfected in you.

if the Truth is important, then why aren’t you worried when I say “A” and you say “B”? If the truth were important, one would want to resolve both “A” and “B”.

2+2 =4 , not 5, not 3.

 

[buffalo]

My “malformed conscience” is separate from the Light of Christ…the Light Within transforms and guides our conscience…I will bow to the Light always…I trust in the Living Presence.

Right - a malformed conscience would be separate from the “Light of Christ” We agree. The “Light within does transform our conscience” We agree. We Catholics too trust in the Living Presence" So we agree.

I submit your receiving mechanism is faulty. We both cannot believe the above and both be right.

Catholics have the Holy Spirit as the Guiding Light which guarantees truth. We only have to listen and not confuse the confusion Satan sows with truth.

The troubling issue at hand here is your belief that you alone can discern the truth. That is what we call a conscience of convenience.

 

[Publisher]

right, so what you believe is moral relativism.

There is an Eternal Truth…and we all are on a journey in seeking to understand it and have this Truth transform our lives. That I do not embrace what you define for me as Truth does not mean “moral relativism”…it simply means we have a very finite view of Truth and find our words inadequate for one another.

 

[hasikelee]

If drinking causes you or anyone else no damage whatsoever, then drinking isn’t an issue. A gay person having a committed loving stable relationship with another gay person does not effect you nor anyone else in any way…it is their choice…and it causes no harm to them nor anyone else.

Again, you compare apples to oranges…your drinking problem has no bearing whatsover on two consenting loving adults having a mutual loving relaionship.

Unawareness of self?

To claim that two people can form a relationship and have no effect on themselves or others is a fairytale. The choices we make do effect others.

The sexually transmitted diseases that we share are passed onto others. Homosexual relationships statistically have more STDs and transfer them to more people than do heterosexual relationships.

The way we treat our partner can hurt them and ourselves. Homosexual relationships statistically have more incidents of domestic abuse, and the incidents are frequently more violent than heterosexual relationships.

Our ability to work and save money effects other people. Two white, homosexual men living together, sharing expenses and (in some states) benefits of partnership are at a better advantage than a man and woman raising a family. There is still a proven gender income gap, making men living together economically higher than a man and woman and two women.

Economic status is a huge influence on everything. Where children are raised, how well children are raised, how well they are educated…these things determine the world of tomorrow and the world we will retire in. As the political climate of America changes and homosexual relationships receive more benefits, that plus the inherent benefit of being two single adults unable to conceive will further the gap between poor and rich.

People with money have influence. Politicians and organizations receive money. So the elected will favor those who helped them. Retailers, restaurants, businesses, banks, real estate agents… all will accomodate those with money.

Well, I don’t want the thread to be too long so I will stop here. Suffice to say it is absolutely ridiculous to claim your choices or my choices have no effect on other people.

 

[Freshman88]

There is an Eternal Truth…and we all are on a journey in seeking to understand it and have this Truth transform our lives. That I do not embrace what you define for me as Truth does not mean “moral relativism”…it simply means we have a very finite view of Truth and find our words inadequate for one another.

Exactly, relativism.