God Loves Homosexuals

[Publisher]

Right - a malformed conscience would be separate from the “Light of Christ” We agree. The “Light within does transform our conscience” We agree. We Catholics too trust in the Living Presence" So we agree.

I submit your receiving mechanism is faulty. We both cannot believe the above and both be right.

Catholics have the Holy Spirit as the Guiding Light which guarantees truth. We only have to listen and not confuse the confusion Satan sows with truth.

The troubling issue at hand here is your belief that you alone can discern the truth. That is what we call a conscience of convenience.

It is not “alone” we discern Truth…it is within the Gathered Meeting that Truth is fully discerned. I am not going to claim any infallibility…but I will trust the One who promised to guide us into all Truth…I may not “hear” perfectly…but then I don’t know anyone who does. Where I lack, I will trust in Mercy and Grace.

 

[fix]

We all must choose a “compass” to guide our lives…

We each are born with the law engraved on our souls. We cannot choose that, it was done for us by the supreme lawgiver.

I have chosen mine, you have chosen yours.

Niether of us gets to invent the compass or the law.

There is a component of “moral relativism” in what both of us believes…

There is no component of moral relativism in God. I accept that objective truth exists as it can be known through reason.

you wish to trust in a moral authority such as the Catholic church…I do not believe the Catholic church is a final source of authority, you do.

And your authority is what?

 

[buffalo]

It is not “alone” we discern Truth…it is within the Gathered Meeting that Truth is fully discerned. I am not going to claim any infallibility…but I will trust the One who promised to guide us into all Truth…I may not “hear” perfectly…but then I don’t know anyone who does. Where I lack, I will trust in Mercy and Grace.

Bottom line question publisher - are you open to the truth?

 

[tmango]

ljprevo…my sentiments exactly…straight in your face Truth without any sugar coating. It is what it is!

 

[Publisher]

Unawareness of self?

To claim that two people can form a relationship and have no effect on themselves or others is a fairytale. The choices we make do effect others.

Gay relationships that I have had the priviledge of witnessing in Meeting have been a blessing to two peoples faithfullness to one another…same with the “straight” relationships I have witnessed in Meeting.

The sexually transmitted diseases that we share are passed onto others. Homosexual relationships statistically have more STDs and transfer them to more people than do heterosexual relationships.

**If neither partner enter into the relationship with STD’s and remain faithful, STD’s are not part of that relationship…gay or straight.

**The way we treat our partner can hurt them and ourselves. Homosexual relationships statistically have more incidents of domestic abuse, and the incidents are frequently more violent than heterosexual relationships.

If relationships are lived with compassion toward each other and toward the community in which they find support, domestic abuse will be absent…gay or straight.

Our ability to work and save money effects other people. Two white, homosexual men living together, sharing expenses and (in some states) benefits of partnership are at a better advantage than a man and woman raising a family. There is still a proven gender income gap, making men living together economically higher than a man and woman and two women.

There is a gay couple in my Meeting who one works the other is in school working on their masters. There is a lesbian couple…one works and one is a “stay at home mom”…it seems the options for gay or straight are the same in that respect.

Economic status is a huge influence on everything. Where children are raised, how well children are raised, how well they are educated…these things determine the world of tomorrow and the world we will retire in. As the political climate of America changes and homosexual relationships receive more benefits, that plus the inherent benefit of being two single adults unable to conceive will further the gap between poor and rich.

As equality becomes a reality, “gay” couples will have the same options in raising their children. So you’re saying that if a gay couple has more money between them, that alone should be a reason for their relationship to be rejected???

People with money have influence. Politicians and organizations receive money. So the elected will favor those who helped them. Retailers, restaurants, businesses, banks, real estate agents… all will accomodate those with money.

We live in a capitalist society…I’m not sure where you’re going.

Well, I don’t want the thread to be too long so I will stop here. Suffice to say it is absolutely ridiculous to claim your choices or my choices have no effect on other people.

Who a person chooses to have a relationship with, which gender, has no effect on you…that some couples may have a more stable economic life isn’t agreeable to you…I don’t see your point.

 

[Valke2]

If me and the guys on this board get together and we decide that it is Ok to be unfaithful to our wives think we could sell it to them?

We could claim we seen the “light”. We all have been watching TV where cheating is rampant and even celebrated. We have been guided by this influence.

Where does mercy and grace come into play in support of being unfaithful?

 

[buffalo]

Where does mercy and grace come into play in support of being unfaithful?

I trust in mercy and grace that it is OK if I heard from the TV culture cheating is OK and me and the guys concluded it’s OK. I am using it like publisher is using it.

 

[Publisher]

Where does mercy and grace come into play in support of being unfaithful?

We seem to be speaking past one another…

 

[fix]

If me and the guys on this board get together and we decide that it is Ok to be unfaithful to our wives think we could sell it to them?

That may be true in some cases. The wife could agree and the man could say he loves the other woman too. The intent is to love and be happy. That makes it all good.

 

[Publisher]

That may be true in some cases. The wife could agree and the man could say he loves the other woman too. The intent is to love and be happy. That makes it all good.

Or we could embrace the same sexual ethic whether gay or straight. Remain faithful to the one we’ve made the promise to.

 

[buffalo]

That may be true in some cases. The wife could agree and the man could say he loves the other woman too. The intent is to love and be happy. That makes it all good.

See how easy it is to discern what we want to.

Any other guys willing to join the club?

 

[fix]

Or we could embrace the same sexual ethic whether gay or straight. Remain faithful to the one we’ve made the promise to.

Why? Once you overturn the sexual ethic by claiming same sex persons may act as man and woman you have already denied the law.

 

[buffalo]

Or we could embrace the same sexual ethic whether gay or straight. Remain faithful to the one we’ve made the promise to.

Catholics remain faithful to our Creator, God, aka Absolute Truth. That is our promise and it comes first.

 

[Publisher]

Quakers remain faithfull to their Creator as well. We believe that our promises to one another and our “word is our bond”. It is living out of the Center of Truth as guided by the Light Within.

We have that in common it seems.

 

[buffalo]

Quakers remain faithfull to their Creator as well. We believe that our promises to one another and our “word is our bond”. It is living out of the Center of Truth as guided by the Light Within.

We have that in common it seems.

We have a lot in common. Including our Christian heritage.

I ask again are you open to the truth?

 

[blessedtoo]

****As equality becomes a reality, “gay” couples will have the same options in raising their children. ****

Your insistence that ssm does not harm others belies an ignorance of the meaning and function of the institution of marriage in human society.

It has been proven, over and over, that children need a mother and a father. It has been proven, over and over, that without proper role modeling by two opposite sex married parents, children will suffer throughout their lives.

Again, I highly recommend you read the book I linked. If you are open to the science behind the STATE support of traditional marriage, you should be eager to do some research.

In addition, if you want a real taste of how ssm and homosexual behavior affects others, I suggest you visit the Courage and Encourage websites. You are only hearing one side of the debate - from the side of homosexuals who have a vested interest in persuading society that their behavior is acceptable and normal. Perhaps a peek into the lives of their loved ones and into the lives of those who wish to live according to God’s teaching will give you a better perspective on how homosexual behavior hurts everyone.

 

[Publisher]

We have a lot in common. Including our Christian heritage.

I ask again are you open to the truth?

Always…I seek to “walk in the Light.”

 

[Publisher]

Your insistence that ssm does not harm others belies an ignorance of the meaning and function of the institution of marriage in human society.

It has been proven, over and over, that children need a mother and a father. It has been proven, over and over, that without proper role modeling by two opposite sex married parents, children will suffer throughout their lives.

Again, I highly recommend you read the book I linked. If you are open to the science behind the STATE support of traditional marriage, you should be eager to do some research.

In addition, if you want a real taste of how ssm and homosexual behavior affects others, I suggest you visit the Courage and Encourage websites. You are only hearing one side of the debate - from the side of homosexuals who have a vested interest in persuading society that their behavior is acceptable and normal. Perhaps a peek into the lives of their loved ones and into the lives of those who wish to live according to God’s teaching will give you a better perspective on how homosexual behavior hurts everyone.

Thank you for the recommendation. I have looked at the Courage website, but I am not persuaded…but thanks for your concern all the same.

 

[buffalo]

Always…I seek to “walk in the Light.”

Great! Are you open to the truth no matter where it takes you?

 

[joeybaggz]

Publisher:

The following question was asked of you and your reply appears here.

“So you do not believe that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God?”

“No I don’t…it is a very human record and work. It is a very human endeavor to explain “God” the “Eternal”…the “Infinite”…in very human finte ( finite?) words.”

Question. Is the Bible a human work or a supernatural one? Is the Bible not so much man’s effort to explain and understand God as it is God’s effort to speak to man in words and terms man understands, working through the humanity he created.

If one believes the Bible is merely a human construct, then anyone can interpret it in any way one wants. (I believe Luther lamented a few years after put forth his idea of sola scriptura that “even milkmaids are interpreting scripture”). Looking at the less than stellar exploits of such people as David Koresh, Jim Jones, and those happy go lucky fun loving folks who were trying to hitchhike to heaven aboard the Hale Bopp comet some years back, don’t we get a look at a few of the examples of the decidedly less than edifying examples of individual interpretation?

One the other hand, if the Bible is God’s effort to speak to man and explain Himself, I would think that some structured, institutional explanation is in God’s plan. After all, we humans do it all the time. Write a book explaning nuclear physics, and we do need nuclear physicists to explain it.

Scripture is clear that Christ instituted a church founded on the apostle Peter. He clearly gave the apostles under the leadership of Peter the commission to go and teach all nations, bringing the gospel to all men, and explaining it as God continued (and continues) to reveal Himself. Granted, Protestants don’t believe it, but that doesn’t make the objection true, and that isn’t the point of this post.

The Church teaches that the Bible is inerrant, but admits that it is rife with errors, conundrums, and even contradictions. How then, can the Bible have any relevance or authority in today’s world, if there is no institutional authority to teach and guide? How can individual interpretation, given the inherent flawed nature of both man and Scripture itself, bring about universal faith in Christ, not to mention confusion, doubt, or disbelief.

Christ instituted that teaching authority in his apostles, led by Peter. For fifteen hundred years there was no other authority to teach and guide. The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuality is outside the natural order of creation as intended by God. It does not teach that the individual homosexual is inherently evil or sinful, only that the expression of his sexual nature is. It also teaches that my expression of my sexual orientation, being heterosexual and unmarried, is sinful to a degree no greater or no less than the homosexual. And the Church looks to science for truth and understanding as it relates to such questions. The Catholic Church teaches that true science and true religion are not in conflict. And when science opens new understanding of man and his world, the church will examine its teachings and pursue the truth. (Something the individual interpretations of the KKK, Aryan Nation, and www.IHateanyoneIdon’tunderstandoragreewith.com. are a bit lax in doing I might add.)

Given the widespread division among people (including hatred and violence), which is better, a structured, teaching institution that speaks with one voice in interpreting a library of writings that are inspired by God to teach man about God, or a plethora of individual interpretations of that book that is, in the mind of modern day ‘experts’, little more than a compilation of ancient ramblings that have no relevance to modern society?