B
buffalo
Guest
God has a plan for you before you were born. However, free will still can affect the outcome. And yes He does know the choices you will make, but He still allows them.
- Status
P
Publisher
Guest
In a religious view, God made male and female, two diverse and different creations that display the infinte diversity of His creation. Heterosexual sex is not only for procreation but is unitive…homosexual sex is unitive…sexual expression between two humans is God’s design and is shown in the diversity of creation. That is an alternative religious view, but my religious view does not dictate the rule of civil law.
B
buffalo
Guest
Ok - so we agree the starting point is that the pieces “fit”. The design is complementary. The design facilities the preservation of the species. That is the basic intent. That is also the built in attraction between male and female. The design also facilitates between 4 and 12 children per couple. The intent is again to not just keep the population steady at two, but growth.
P
preacherman
Guest
Right on Truth warrior and Amen too
B
buffalo
Guest
How is homosexual sex unitive? Unitive means that the result of the “act” is a new creation of the parents.
R
Righteousone
Guest
Really? Are you seated at the right hand of the Father? Whether you have free will or not, He knows the outcome…
B
buffalo
Guest
That’s what I said - He knows the outcome. He doesn’t determine it.
P
Publisher
Guest
But we are not strictly “biologically reproductive” individuals. Heterosexual sex is the “intent” to reproduce, but reproduction is not the only…ONLY reason two people come together…the “intent” is also companionship, and the “intent” of companionship is fulfilled by those of homosexual orientation when they establish relaionships with each other…the same way as heterosexuals. Reproduction IS one of the “intents” but not the definitive and only reason.
The “starting point” isn’t the end all.
V
Valke2
Guest
But can we also not look to nature for the lesson that not all individual members of a species are intended to mate for procreation? A lot of wolves, lions, etc. are SoL in this department. Perhaps gays are natures way of ensuring that there are only so many alpha males and females in the sepcies when it comes to procreation.
But in any event, no matter what explanation you give and no matter how airtight it is, the fact remains that we have gay people in our population, and withholding marriage from them isn’t gong to change anything.
P
preacherman
Guest
It is still sin no matter how you slice it or defend it
B
buffalo
Guest
Nope. - let’s say tomorrow the whole world adopts your position and sterilize themselves, becuse we decided that our intent is companionship. There will no longer be anyone left to even debate this issue.
B
buffalo
Guest
Another red herring issue. Looking to use animals as an example is not valid. The same as using human examples is not valid.
And thank you for the recognition of an airtight argument.
We can move on now to the issue of the fact we do have homosexuals in the population.
P
Publisher
Guest
The whole world is not going to adopt that position and serilize themselves…FACT!!!
We are not talking about “the whole world” we are talking about those individuals who wish to enter into a unitive relationship in the exact same way that those humans who cannot have children chose to enter into their relationships.
The issue is not that homosexualtiy is to be the normative and primary means people enter into relationships but that human sexuality is diverse and those who find sexual expression in a stable, loving committed relationship should be able to do so in the exact same way those who are sterile by natural means or by artificial means may establish such relaitonships.
IF…IF the whole world’s population made that informed choice for themselves, yes it would end the human race, and the only alternative would be for “someone” to establish breeding pens to insure the propagation of the human race should the whole world’s population chose to undergo sterilization…would you find that a satisfactory solution?
T
tmango
Guest
I should hope that this thread end sooner rather than later. So, so much complication from something so simplistic. God does love homosexuals…yes…Yes…YES!
What did Jesus say to a sinner? “Go and sin no more.” You either believe it or you don’t. Done. Over. Not complicated at all. There is really nothing to argue about. You cannot sugar coat a sin and make it not sinful. It is what it is. This one says, that one says, physcologists say, born with, not born with, this book, that book…same sex, as found in the old testament, is an abomination before the eyes of God. You believe it or you don’t, so why so much back and forth. Should not a sinner be told he is sinning? How is a sinner to correct his ways if he walks in darkness. This is not judging, just wanting the most for that person, and that is eternal life in heaven.
My last post in this thread will end thusly: “Whoever believes in me believes not only in me but also in the one who sent me, and whoever sees me sees the one who sent me. I came into this world as light, so that everyone who believes in me might not remain in darkness. And if anyone hears my words and does not observe them, I do not condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save the world. Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words has something to judge him: the word that I spoke, it will condemn him on the last day, because I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and speak. And I know that His commandment is eternal lfe. So what I say I say as the Father told me.” John 12:44
What did Jesus say to a sinner? “Go and sin no more.” You either believe it or you don’t. Done. Over. Not complicated at all. There is really nothing to argue about. You cannot sugar coat a sin and make it not sinful. It is what it is. This one says, that one says, physcologists say, born with, not born with, this book, that book…same sex, as found in the old testament, is an abomination before the eyes of God. You believe it or you don’t, so why so much back and forth. Should not a sinner be told he is sinning? How is a sinner to correct his ways if he walks in darkness. This is not judging, just wanting the most for that person, and that is eternal life in heaven.
My last post in this thread will end thusly: “Whoever believes in me believes not only in me but also in the one who sent me, and whoever sees me sees the one who sent me. I came into this world as light, so that everyone who believes in me might not remain in darkness. And if anyone hears my words and does not observe them, I do not condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save the world. Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words has something to judge him: the word that I spoke, it will condemn him on the last day, because I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and speak. And I know that His commandment is eternal lfe. So what I say I say as the Father told me.” John 12:44
B
buffalo
Guest
It’s not the exact same no matter how you argue it. It is different.
Again - what is the difference between homosexual and gay?
Geez - no one will answer these questions because they know where it will ultimately lead.
P
Publisher
Guest
I agree, we are not going to change others minds on this matter, only God will be able to do that.
God loves gay people. God, I believe, blesses them in the same manner as He blesses the rest of us. He calls them to establish loving relationships with one another as witnessed in the Meeting I attend…not everyone has to accept that, but that is the case in the Meeting I attend.
God is infinte and unbounded love…through Him and His boundless grace and astounding mercy we all, gay or straight receive His blessings.
This thread has run it’s course…I’m sure there will be others.
God loves gay people. God, I believe, blesses them in the same manner as He blesses the rest of us. He calls them to establish loving relationships with one another as witnessed in the Meeting I attend…not everyone has to accept that, but that is the case in the Meeting I attend.
God is infinte and unbounded love…through Him and His boundless grace and astounding mercy we all, gay or straight receive His blessings.
This thread has run it’s course…I’m sure there will be others.
B
buffalo
Guest
Code:
:bowdown2:So I will defeat his argument on a simple logic basis.
J
justinthemartyr
Guest
It is not only normative for homosexuals to never, ever procreate, but there is no exception to the rule. It is the law of nature.
No homosexual can procreate.
They would have to go outside of the realms of their so -called “homosexuality”, in order to have children, which would be proof that they inherently have the desire to procreate, which is a heterosexual desire in the law of nature.
You cannot have a child without a male and female human being. It is impossible.
This proves that homosexual acts go against the natural law. this has nothing to do with faith, God or religion, only nature.
place 1 million homosexual couples on an island for 100 years with everything they need to live,a nd what do you have at the end of 100 years? 1 million dead homosexual couples and no children.
place only ten heterosexual couples at random(some sterile etc…) on that same island, and in only ten years you would have the beginning of a thriving village.
Natural vs. Unnatural
simple. Homosexual acts are disordered according to nature.
No homosexual can procreate.
They would have to go outside of the realms of their so -called “homosexuality”, in order to have children, which would be proof that they inherently have the desire to procreate, which is a heterosexual desire in the law of nature.
You cannot have a child without a male and female human being. It is impossible.
This proves that homosexual acts go against the natural law. this has nothing to do with faith, God or religion, only nature.
place 1 million homosexual couples on an island for 100 years with everything they need to live,a nd what do you have at the end of 100 years? 1 million dead homosexual couples and no children.
place only ten heterosexual couples at random(some sterile etc…) on that same island, and in only ten years you would have the beginning of a thriving village.
Natural vs. Unnatural
simple. Homosexual acts are disordered according to nature.
B
buffalo
Guest
and therefore intrinsically evil.
B
buffalo
Guest
Why is your default posiiton that God calls them into a gay relationship? Why isn’t the default position chastity? Heterosexuals are called to be chaste.
Do you see yet how wrong the logic is?
- Status