Righto.My apologies; it wasn’t you – it was Publisher.
Um, you already did admit that.No, I don’t admit that.
Oh, and that’s *not *biased?
Why is it biased?Take this section of the linked article:
Bolding mine.
That isnt true.Furthermore, the APA declassified homosexuality as a mental disorder back in the 1970s purely due to social pressure, not due to any objective scientific evidence.
There is that possibility.My apologies; but perhaps you’re being a tad oversensitive.
Being sucidal, signifant mood swings, to a lesser extent depression (but combined with the others it is an issue), compulsive urges.Such as?
Didnt say that you were, but you are still a representive of society.I am not in any way representative of society’s majority opinion.
Is my statement wrong?So what’s wrong with this statement:
“Homosexual behavior is immoral and wrong, I dont believe that adults should have sex with those of the same gender. If someone feels those kind of urges, then they should seek professional help in controlling those urges.”
Why is your statement right if my statement is wrong?
But we are not accepting homosexuality on the basis of that alone, are we?Because it boils down to the basis of what compels this behavior. If we accept one sexual sin on the basis of, “Well, it makes me happy and who are you to tell someone who they can love?” then the exact same argument can be made for adultery, beastiality, etc.
What would I say?And what would you say to a pedophile who said, “Because you hate pedophilia, you hate me as well. You’re being judgemental and unChristian.”
umm…Gay sex is like any other addiction like alcoholism, or smoking. The first time you smoke you choke and gag.
Well, look at one of the statements from religioustolerance.org:Why is it biased?
Because NARTH comes out looking bad?
Our prime motivation is a concern for the victims of religiously motivated hatred and oppression, whether it is:
directed from persons of one faith group to another (e.g. by a Christian Fundamentalist group against the Mormons).
directed from persons of one faith group against a secular group (e.g. by a religious group against gays, lesbians and bisexuals).
Bolding mine. The site is “pro-gay” – i.e., biased towards the pro-gay movement.directed from persons in a secular group against a faith group (e.g. by freethinkers against all organized religions).
That isnt true.
Are you referring to the work of Alfred Kinsey? 25% of his subject pool were convicted sex offenders. His work has been debunked by many social scientists.There was extensive research done from the 1950’s on the subject, it was the first real research that was actually done on homosexuality and homosexuals.
Exactly. Every relevant – and secular – organization has bowed to social pressure, except NARTH.Besides, every relevent organisation in the west has declasified homosexuality as a mental illness. The only exeption is NARTH.
Being sucidal, signifant mood swings, to a lesser extent depression (but combined with the others it is an issue), compulsive urges.
Don’t you think that living the “gay lifestyle” might have had something to do with being suicidal, significant mood swings, etc.? That’s certainly supported by social science.He needed help dealing with these things and resolving his own issues and he wasnt providing the most positive enviroment for his children.
And you’re willing to take my opinion as representing all of society?Didnt say that you were, but you are still a representive of society.
I’m comparing the *inclinations *(not the people). Homosexual inclinations, like pedophilic inclinations, are intrinsically disordered.Is my statement wrong?
Are you comparing homosexuals to paedophilles?
I’ve yet to hear any decent arguments to the contrary from this thread.But we are not accepting homosexuality on the basis of that alone, are we?
What would I say?
What if they claim that they aren’t destroying anyone’s life?“Well stop having sex with children and destroying their lives, then maybe I wont be so “unchristian”.”
First: The first time I smoked a cigar I loved it. Im also not addicted, my last cigar was during my Quals and before that was my graduation a difference of four years.Gay sex is like any other addiction like alcoholism, or smoking. The first time you smoke you choke and gag. Intellectually you know you are just slow roasting your lungs. But the more times you do it the more you want it, and you go into denial that it’s really a bad thing for you.
So the best thing is to never do it, otherwise you have to quit it like smoking.
That argument has been done to death in this thread, but I’ll restate it again.Now you are making another argument. You lumped beastiality and pedapheila (or was it adultry?) with homosexuality. So I highlighted one difference. I don’t recall Jesus saying anything about homosexuality one way or the other.
Polygamy was allowed in the Old Testament for the purposes of populating the earth. If it comes to the point where the world’s population is so scarce that it’s necessary for a man to have more than one wife in order to populate the Earth, God may decide to allow it again. But as God CLEARLY taught through the teachings of His Son, polygamy is now longer acceptable.Polygamy is not by itself a sin or inherently immoral. If it were, it would have been immoral during biblical times as well as today. It is an excellent example, however, for the belief that what is moral can change over time, especially in the arena of sexual relations. If polygamy can go from acceptance to immoral, then why cannot homosexuality go from immoral to accepted?
The last two sentences of your question are contradictions.Is the gift of sexual intercourse only for procreative funcitons. Should not a married couple be entitled to find sexual gratification with each other in a variety of ways? How is it a misue of the unitive function of sex?
You must not read the Bible all that much. Moreover, I’d say people themselves, and our society as a whole, is very focused on the issue – which brings it to the forefront.The bible itself does not seem to focus on what goes on between two people nearly as much as people who read the bible tend to focus on these things.
What exactly is your evidence for such a statement?Well, look at one of the statements from religioustolerance.org:
Bolding mine. The site is “pro-gay” – i.e., biased towards the pro-gay movement.
Our prime motivation is a concern for the victims of religiously motivated hatred and oppression, whether it is:
directed from persons of one faith group to another (e.g. by a Christian Fundamentalist group against the Mormons).
directed from persons of one faith group against a secular group (e.g. by a religious group against gays, lesbians and bisexuals).
Does not suggest any bias, I dont even know how you could come to that conclusion in the first place.directed from persons in a secular group against a faith group (e.g. by freethinkers against all organized religions).
Actually no I wasnt refering to him. More towards Evelyn Hooker.Are you referring to the work of Alfred Kinsey? 25% of his subject pool were convicted sex offenders. His work has been debunked by many social scientists.
Im sorry, but what on earth has secular got to do with anything and what is all this rubbish about “bowing to social pressure”?Exactly. Every relevant – and secular – organization has bowed to social pressure, except NARTH.
Wow you really like to try and twist things dont you?Don’t you think that living the “gay lifestyle” might have had something to do with being suicidal, significant mood swings, etc.? That’s certainly supported by social science.
Why are you trying to put words into my mouth?And you’re willing to take my opinion as representing all of society?
Nonsense. Gay sex is an obsession, that’s why gays can’t stop talking about it, everything turns into a sexual reference. That’s all they can think about. Just like an alcoholic with a drink.First: The first time I smoked a cigar I loved it. Im also not addicted, my last cigar was during my Quals and before that was my graduation a difference of four years.
Second. Almost every woman I ever talked to said the samething about the first time they had sex. It was painfull and really not that Good, some of them had bleeding and then a few even had yeast and re-occuring bladder infections, Yet they learned to like even though it was a bad thing for there body. (Mostly married btw)
Third. I have gay friends and do you realize they choke and gag at the thought of my wife and I.
Do these add up to heterosexual relations being bad or addictions.
No
Try and develop a better concept of addiction and homosexuality before you make such statements.
Is that you have?I’m comparing the *inclinations *(not the people). Homosexual inclinations, like pedophilic inclinations, are intrinsically disordered.
Oh, ok then.I’ve yet to hear any decent arguments to the contrary from this thread.
Then I would attempt to control myself and call them out for the liar that they are, or fail to control myself and severly hurt them while calling them out for the liar that they are.What if they claim that they aren’t destroying anyone’s life?
If my dislike of paedophilles is classed as bigotry, I can live with that.And why is the CC being unchristian, judgmental, bigoted, etc. when it states that homosexuals should live chaste lives? Wouldn’t that make you judgmental and bigoted against pedophiles?
Before I get blasted for condoning sin or for promoting the “gay agenda” let me make this declaration: I believe in the teachings of the Church. I believe that homosexuals are called to chastity like everyone else.Nonsense. Gay sex is an obsession, that’s why gays can’t stop talking about it, everything turns into a sexual reference. That’s all they can think about. Just like an alcoholic with a drink.
Gay sex is a temptation just like alcohol or lying or any other sin, you can pray to God to keep you from it, or run with it.Before I get blasted for condoning sin or for promoting the “gay agenda” let me make this declaration: I believe in the teachings of the Church. I believe that homosexuals are called to chastity like everyone else.
With that being said, FaithofAbraham, your statement there is offensive to homosexuals and alcoholics. I know you mean well, but blanket generalizations such as that do nothing more than push people away from the truth, rather than towards it. Unless you know every gay person, and every alcoholic for that matter, sweeping generalizations (especially like that) should really be avoided. Statements like yours above is the very reason why some view the Church as bigoted and mean spirited when it really isn’t.
Like I said, I know you mean well but we have to be careful. God bless!
Yes, I agree. I wasn’t arguing otherwise.Gay sex is a temptation just like alcohol or lying or any other sin, you can pray to God to keep you from it, or run with it.
I guess my declaration at the beginning of the post didn’t go through or something. I said I agree with the Church so the answer is obvious, yes it’s a sin. I wasn’t arguing whether or not it was a sin. I was speaking of your statement here:So is gay sex a sin or not to you? If so then there is no argument
For many gay people sex is not an obsession. Many gay people don’t constantly talk about sex. Many gay people don’t turn everything into a sexual reference. For many gay people sex isn’t the only thing they think about. The same is true for many alcoholics (my best friend being one of them). I was simply stating that a blanket, sweeping generalization should never be used, especially if it isn’t true for everyone. That’s all I was saying.Nonsense. Gay sex is an obsession, that’s why gays can’t stop talking about it, everything turns into a sexual reference. That’s all they can think about. Just like an alcoholic with a drink.
Gay sex is an obsession? I do not think you know anything about this. If you are gay or know a gay like this, your or his obsession might be a nymphomania which is completely different and can happen to both hetereo and homo sexual people.Nonsense. Gay sex is an obsession, that’s why gays can’t stop talking about it, everything turns into a sexual reference. That’s all they can think about. Just like an alcoholic with a drink.
Homosexuality is just like any other mental disorder, it needs to be treated, not nurtured.
This is a misformulation of the argument that (I think) Valke2 and others are making. The argument isn’t that it is OK to sin in some circumstances. The argument is that gay sex is not necessarily sinful.Please tell me where the concept of “consent” is found in the Bible, or where Jesus says, “It’s okay to sin as long as no one gets hurt and everyone’s okay with it.”
What makes you say this? Besides, 1 Tim. 1-10, is this word used anywhere else in the scriptures that are supposedly anti-gay passages?Arsenokoites literally means MAN SEX.