God Loves Homosexuals

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truagape said:
got any teachings on arsenokoites and scripture?
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See the links above. They come from the only institution in the world that authoritatively interprets Scripture.

Ever plan to answer my questions in the other thread about what your authority is to interpret Scripture? You never answered me.
 
wanner47 said:
See the links above.
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I guess you don’t. To get the full sense of scripture would require getting a full sense of the Koine Greek with which it was written. Obviously that’s only a priorty when its convenient.
 
wanner47 said:
Ever plan to answer my questions in the other thread about what your authority is to interpret Scripture? You never answered me.
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I answered your question on multiple occassions and continue to do so. Unfortunately for you, you’re too blinded by preconception to realize it.
 
truagape said:
I guess you don’t. To get the full sense of scripture would require getting a full sense of the Koine Greek with which it was written. Obviously that’s only a priorty when its convenient.
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You know what? I’m not a Scripture scholar nor do I know any Biblical languages.

That’s why I trust the Church to authoritatively and correctly interpret Scripture, because it’s comprised of much more learned individuals than I, people who have spent their academic LIVES devoted to the study of Greek, Aramaic, etc.

Also, the Church was given the authority to teach and interpret Scripture by JESUS CHRIST himself.

So yes, I follow the Church’s teachings in this matter, because Jesus told me to trust the Church, not an angry person with same-sex attraction who attempts to use his own pitiful knowledge of Greek (for which he can’t even prove knowledge or authority) to persuade everyone else that the Church has been wrong for 2,000+ years.
 
truagape said:
I answered your question on multiple occassions and continue to do so. Unfortunately for you, you’re too blinded by preconception to realize it.
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You never answered my question. In fact, you steadfastly ignored it.

Again, what is your authority to correctly interpret Scripture?
 
wanner47 said:
You know what? I’m not a Scripture scholar nor do I know any Biblical languages.
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Perhaps you should take steps to rectify that. We, as Christians, are admonished to test EVERY inspired expression. In fact, I invite you to put all the information that I have presented to a test. And see whether or not what I’ve been claiming on this forum holds any water.
 
wanner47 said:
You never answered my question. In fact, you steadfastly ignored it.

Again, what is your authority to correctly interpret Scripture?
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If I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again: I have yet to discuss interpretation. Translation is the focus here.
 
truagape said:
Perhaps you should take steps to rectify that. We, as Christians, are admonished to test EVERY inspired expression. In fact, I invite you to put all the information that I have presented to a test. And see whether or not what I’ve been claiming on this forum holds any water.
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Sounds great! Do you want to give me a few hundred thousand dollars so I can afford to stop working full-time and supporting my growing family in order to pursue a master’s degree in Biblical languages? If so, let me know and I’ll tell you where to mail the check.

If you’re not willing to give me the financial support, I’m afraid I’ll have to keep working full-time so I can feed my children, thanks.

In the meantime (since I’m guessing I’ll have to keep my job), I’ll keep on trusting the Church for my Scripture interpretation needs – unless you can show me where in the Bible and/or Sacred Tradition it says that Christ gave YOU the authority to teach infallibly.

By the way - here’s a Catholic source and a non-Catholic source regarding the word you’re so hung up on.

Translation is just a subset of interpretation, btw. You can’t separate the two.
 
truagape said:
What makes you say this? Besides, 1 Tim. 1-10, is this word used anywhere else in the scriptures that are supposedly anti-gay passages?
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Yes it is, I cant remember where exactly (it might be Corinthians or possibly Romans).

But it was my understanding that Arsenokoites comes from two words meaning Man and Bed. Apparently it is a word that the writer made up because it doesnt seem to appear anywhere else before this writer used it, so the meaning isnt extremly clear because there are other words the writer could have used to mean “homosexual”.
 
It might be of interest to know that the hebrew word translated in many editions as “abomination” means “offensive”. Aside from its use in Leviticus, it is used in the story of Joseph. When Joseph tells his brothers not to mention to Pharoah that they are shepherds, because a shepherd is “offensive” to the Egyptians.

Now, these days, being a shepherd is no longer offensive (or an “abomination”). From this we can learn that what is offensive in one generation may not necessarily be offensive in another.

Just putting it out there.
 
Valke2 said:
It might be of interest to know that the hebrew word translated in many editions as “abomination” means “offensive”. Aside from its use in Leviticus, it is used in the story of Joseph. When Joseph tells his brothers not to mention to Pharoah that they are shepherds, because a shepherd is “offensive” to the Egyptians.

Now, these days, being a shepherd is no longer offensive (or an “abomination”). From this we can learn that what is offensive in one generation may not necessarily be offensive in another.

Just putting it out there.
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Apparently it can also mean “ritually unclean” as well, plus a couple of other things that I cant remember at the moment.

So it could be up there with mixing seeds on a field, collecting sticks on a Saturday and mixing fabrics in clothing.
 
Valke2 said:
Now you are making another argument. You lumped beastiality and pedapheila (or was it adultry?) with homosexuality. So I highlighted one difference. I don’t recall Jesus saying anything about homosexuality one way or the other.

Polygamy is not by itself a sin or inherently immoral. If it were, it would have been immoral during biblical times as well as today. It is an excellent example, however, for the belief that what is moral can change over time, especially in the arena of sexual relations. If polygamy can go from acceptance to immoral, then why cannot homosexuality go from immoral to accepted?

Is the gift of sexual intercourse only for procreative funcitons. Should not a married couple be entitled to find sexual gratification with each other in a variety of ways? How is it a misue of the unitive function of sex?

The bible itself does not seem to focus on what goes on between two people nearly as much as people who read the bible tend to focus on these things.
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First for the title of this forum I do agree.

A person can be a homosexual or have tendencies in that area but to act upon them is a sin.

What about Sodon? pray tell what did God do there?

Jesus loves homosexuals because he loves sinners. He came to earth to convert and save the sinner. Not the righteous. For a doctor does not cure those that are well.

Believe, Repent, convert, and follow the Sacred Scripture, Sacred Teachings, Sacred Traditions of the Catholic Church (Christ’s Church).

If you plan on having Homo sexual sex and not refrain from such an action then you are in a state of grave sin for you have not repented and turned away from sin. With this being said Jesus will decide weither you get Mercy or judgement when your time comes for being in a state of sin and not following His Father’s commandments.

My own opinion is one in grave sin stands to be judged but I do not speak for Jesus but about Him and His promises of everlasting life and the Catholic Church being the fullness of that promise.
 
bpp85 said:
It is in Judaism 😃
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If that is the case, then its extra confusing since christians dont follow any of those.

But I also remember something about it refering to temple prostitutes (that one does come up a lot though), but I cant remember all of the details.

There is also the interperation that a man shouldnt lay with a man in a womans bed as that is unclean/abomination/offensive ect. As well as a man shouldnt lay with a man as a woman (ie: they should both act “masculine” or neither be submissive or they should do it in a “manly” way").

This isnt to say that I agree with any of them, its simply what others have taken from that text.
 
bpp85 said:
It is in Judaism 😃
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On the whole, Judaism does not view the commandment as being in the ritual realm. But it wouldn’t matter on a practical note because ritual laws are just as important in Judaism as moral/ethical laws. If, however, the Rabbinic Assembly, or the ORthodox Rabbis were to view the word for “offensive” as meaning something that was offensive to society at the time but is subject to change (such as when the word is used in the story of Joseph regarding shepherds), then there is a greater likelihood that the homosexual act of anal intercourse between two committed people would no longer constitute sin.
 
Elric said:
If that is the case, then its extra confusing since christians dont follow any of those.

But I also remember something about it refering to temple prostitutes (that one does come up a lot though), but I cant remember all of the details.

There is also the interperation that a man shouldnt lay with a man in a womans bed as that is unclean/abomination/offensive ect. As well as a man shouldnt lay with a man as a woman (ie: they should both act “masculine” or neither be submissive or they should do it in a “manly” way").

This isnt to say that I agree with any of them, its simply what others have taken from that text.
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Well there is an explanation that it’s about pagan God. but these are the most common views. Leviticus prohibits
All homosexual behavior, by either men or women, or
All sexual behavior between two men, or
Only anal sex between two men, or
Only anal sex in a Pagan temple ritual, or
Sexual activity between two men in a woman’s bed
You pick 😛
But it is confusing that pork was also called an abomination :confused:
 
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