God=Man (i.e. Jesus) doesn't pass the reason test

[Traci]

If given that God is an omnipotent, omniscient God, why can’t one of the Persons in the Trinity become man and lived as man, yet remain 100% God? I fail to see why a God who create and destroy everything just by His will can’t do something like that simple.

I agree, but I apparently am debating with an atheist, or agnostic at best, so he doesn’t believe in the Trinity and refuses to even answer whether or not he believes in God or not. Thanks for your response!

 

[UnityofTrinity]

I agree, but I apparently am debating with an atheist, or agnostic at best, so he doesn’t believe in the Trinity and refuses to even answer whether or not he believes in God or not. Thanks for your response!

But you’re debating it in accordance to a Christian doctrine, isn’t it? If it all resort to a Christian doctrine, that Jesus is the Son of God or God the Son, why can’t you use an another Christian doctrine such as the Trinity to help yourself out?

 

[Traci]

But you’re debating it in accordance to a Christian doctrine, isn’t it? If it all resort to a Christian doctrine, that Jesus is the Son of God or God the Son, why can’t you use an another Christian doctrine such as the Trinity to help yourself out?

Well, he doesn’t believe in any of the Teachings of the Church. See post #24 he is just slinging mud and not responding to any of my responses let alone my specific questions, he still won’t even say if he believes in God or not. I sent him one last response and basically said that if he wasn’t going to get into the why’s of his opinions or answer any of my questions then it was a pretty meaningless discussion and he was wasting my time. I really need to know what I am dealing with because right now I don’t even know if he believes in God. So before I can meaningfully discuss doctrine I need to know where he stands.

If he doesn’t believe in God then I need to be able to show him why it is logical to believe in something like Jesus’ divinity on his terms, using non-Christian arguements otherwise he will just write it off.

 

[TimothyH]

I think I need to think and pray a little bit before I respond! I am not sure where to go with this now…

…society and open mindedness and legislation and misuse of scriptures and government and science and foregin policy and human rights and conflict causing at all levels and …

He’s all over the place, using the machine gun technique, throwing out issues and questions in rapid fire so you can’t get a word in edgewise and not really intersted in the answers. In mentioning the Jesuits, has used the classic condemnation of the institution without condemning the people who make up the institution, run the institution, make the rules of the institution, who are the institution. They’re basically good people but…

He has a problem with the rules of the Church. He’s afraid of them. That’s why he harps on infallibility. And the clincher is, he won’t discuss his belief in God. If God exists then he may have some issues to deal with. And if the Church is infallible as well then he may have some problems he needs to address. Its easier for some to question the teaching of the Church than to face their own shorcomings. He was educated by Jesuits and had theology classes. Make no mistake, he knows the faith and it probably scares him.

I betcha he cries like a baby when he makes his confession. I’ll betcha it’ll be the best day of his life too. But how to get him into the confessional…

I’m wondering if there aren’t any men who you could get involved in his return. Men who are strong in the their faith, secure in their masculinity, but not afraid to weep when they recieve the Eucharist, know what I mean? Firemen. Construction workers. Real guys. They could invite him fishing or over to watch the game, just be friends, not to trick him or anything but to be examples in his life of strong men who know they need forgiveness and healing. Just a thought.

catholicscomehome.org some of the video’s are very powerful.

-Tim

 

[st_felicity]

If he doesn’t believe in God then I need to be able to show him why it is logical to believe in something like Jesus’ divinity on his terms, using non-Christian arguements otherwise he will just write it off.

I believe on page one I suggested dark matter/dark energy. Science “believes” in those things, and the only evidence of their existence is inferential evidence–even LESS than the evidence (eyewitness) of the God-hood of Jesus.

 

[tonyrey]

Reason is based on faith! Our sole certainty is** our inner world **(of thoughts, feelings, perceptions and decisions). We know we exist but we infer everything else.

We have to have faith in our power of reason before we can draw any conclusions at all - and that cannot be explained by science. All the most things in life are intangible: truth, goodness, freedom, justice, beauty and love. Without them the “reason test” is meaningless and valueless…

 

[Daegus]

If we focus on Catholic doctrine alone and rely on reason, Jesus being God and dying for our sins makes perfect sense.

Let’s establish a few points:

1. Only God can forgive sins.
2. Since it was a man who sinned, man must die for man’s sins.
3. Because all men have sinned, no mere man can die for the sins of another man
4. The price for the sins of man would have to be the death of a man who is spotless
5. Because the Lamb of God is spotless, it only comes to pass that God would become man so that He could die for our sins (in His impeccability) and forgive them at the same time.
6. If the one true God is in fact omnipotent (capable of doing all things logically possible), nothing is/should be stopping Him from manifesting Himself in flesh.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.