God of the ancients

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Let’s leave this in God’s hands and deal with the question we know the answer to:

How are YOU and I saved?

God hasn’t told us His plans for cavemen. All we know for sure is that He is not willing for ANY to perish.
 
bpbasilphx said:
Let’s leave this in God’s hands and deal with the question we know the answer to:

How are YOU and I saved?

God hasn’t told us His plans for cavemen. All we know for sure is that He is not willing for ANY to perish.
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Can we apply this same logic to people who have not, and may never hear about Christ? I’ve heard catholics and protestants say that they would be condemned to hell, so would it be the same for cavemen as well?
 
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him…

And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch: And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died. And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah: And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: **And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. ** (Genesis 5:1,18-24)
 
Cheers for the answers folks.

I was wondering, because they were pre-Jesus, and Pre-abraham. (as well as being pre-Adam), so i wondered how they fitted into the plan.
Hell, but in gods hands.

Cheers.
 
As to the God of the ancients -

Christian theology - no matter the denomination -
posits the existence of original sin, from which
human beings need saving.
This introduces complexity, where none exists.

A just and merciful God is both just and merciful - to
each human being that has ever lived, or will ever live.

Reality is not open to being ‘framed’ in a Christian mindset.

God is far more patient than human beings. Even in our own day,
4 of 7 human beings, on the planet, are neither monotheists
nor Christian monotheists. And this - in a day and age of instant communication, easy travel, and the internet.

God places us in time - at a given moment, for a good reason. The question that might be asked is: What does God wish me to do, to make Him known in the world - leaving all who have
gone before, or those who will come after us, to His loving mercy.

Just my thought.

reen12
 
Bah.
I forgot about “original sin”.

Since the Cavemen were around for at least 144,000 years prior to Adam, and it was Adams sins that were original, that would make Cavemen free from original sin and therefore fine for heaven!

Sorted. The jammy things eh?
 
quote: tommiatkins
Bah.
I forgot about “original sin”.

Since the Cavemen were around for at least 144,000 years prior to Adam, and it was Adams sins that were original, that would make Cavemen free from original sin and therefore fine for heaven!

Sorted. The jammy things eh?
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OK. How’s this?

If I see God as loving Father, I don’t get bogged down in
categories of sin - original or otherwise.
‘Religion’ is all about loving and worshipping God -
asking for forgiveness, and thanking Him for the
beauty of His world, and every other good gift.

Religion is relational - one ‘relates’ to God as Father,
trusting that He cares for the needs of salvation of each human being.
That is why prayer is ‘relational,’ too. We relate with God
when we ask Him to help those who need help, and we do
what we can to help, too. That’s the thing about childlike trust.

Jesus said that we should be like children - when it comes
to relating to his Father. Conducting ourselves as adults -
in the realms of responsibilty, while trusting Him as a child trusts.
Totally.

reen12
 
I forgot about fred :o

What makes me say so? Um, well aproximatly 15000 tons of archelogical evidence 🙂
The bones skulls, dwellings, tools, shrines, pots, drawings, scribblings, art, weapons and everything else.
Stuff i’ve seen with my own eyes and stuff millions of people have seen and tens of thousands of archeologists, scientists, radiographers and historians have researched , examined and proved.

Cavemen are at least 150000 years old and adam is 6000, so for 144000 years give or take a few grand, they lived without original sin.

Those must have been lovely times.
Blinking Eve eh?
 
reen12 said:
quote: tommiatkins

OK. How’s this?

If I see God as loving Father, I don’t get bogged down in
categories of sin - original or otherwise.
‘Religion’ is all about loving and worshipping God -
asking for forgiveness, and thanking Him for the
beauty of His world, and every other good gift.

Religion is relational - one ‘relates’ to God as Father,
trusting that He cares for the needs of salvation of each human being.
That is why prayer is ‘relational,’ too. We relate with God
when we ask Him to help those who need help, and we do
what we can to help, too. That’s the thing about childlike trust.

Jesus said that we should be like children - when it comes
to relating to his Father. Conducting ourselves as adults -
in the realms of responsibilty, while trusting Him as a child trusts.
Totally.

reen12
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Kids grow up though.
 
the geneologys.
http://www.d.umn.edu/~jbelote/pics/bible.GIF

Ages are given for the players. Add em together and tah-dah.
it’s accepted fact. Well it was up till science messed up the infallibilty of the bible.
Nowadays we have to jump through one day is a million years in gods time kinda hoops, but then seperate that off from Methuzula being 940 years old, then give him perfect genes to “explain that” …it all gets very tied up in its own knots. lots of people try and excuse it some other way, or just sack the whole thing as being metaphorical.
 
tommiatkins said:
the geneologys.

Ages are given for the players. Add em together and tah-dah.
it’s accepted fact. Well it was up till science messed up the infallibilty of the bible.
Nowadays we have to jump through one day is a million years in gods time kinda hoops, but then seperate that off from Methuzula being 940 years old, then give him perfect genes to “explain that” …it all gets very tied up in its own knots. lots of people try and excuse it some other way, or just sack the whole thing as being metaphorical.
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So you take the bible to be literally true to come up with these generations? But not so with respect to the Creation, immediately preceding Adam?

Huh. 🤷

“Blinking” “jammy” indeed.

tee
 
Oh no, of course i dont beleive they are true!
i beleive the geneologys are false, Adam, if he existed at all, which is doubtful,wasnt the first man nor did anything of what he was puported to have done in the way it was described.

I beleive the science is correct.
I simply say that *If *the Geneology is true, as it *must *be if God inspired the bible, then adam wasnt the first man, which he is, (in the bible). Adam to be the first man would have to be 150000 years old and simply one of the hundreds of generations who picked up tools and slowly developed languages.

Cake cant be eaten both ways.
To be a christian who accepts the bible as the inspired word of god or the literal word of god then you cannot accept cavemen.

Cavemen did exist, this is provable. their ages are provable.
So The bible is therefore the ramblings of tribal theologans 3700 years ago making it up on the hoof.

They did a pretty good job holding it together for so long, but that says perhaps more about mankinds gullibility 😃
 
quote: tommiatkins
Kids grow up though.
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This is why I noted that we function as adults - in terms of our adult responsibilties - but we also heed the words of Jesus about being childlike, [not ‘childish’] in our trust in God. 🙂

Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. 15 Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.
[Mark 10:13]

reen12
 
As things went along, man noted that obtaining food was
hard work, as was rudimentary farming. It was also noted
that women have pain, in labor. It quickly became apparent
that people, at some point, passed away, and were buried
in the earth.

All of this needed ‘explaining,’ so an explanation was created
to account for all of these things.
A paradisial garden, a man and a woman and a snake.

What’s ‘true’ about all of this?

The Genesis account is accurate, in it’s observations of that
which life entails. It ‘explains’ so many things.

And since this was written by men who acknowledged
the one God, [not many ‘gods’ ] - it was thought that man
must have sinned, in some way, and was therefore ejected
from this paradise.[sin was not confined to an early garden.]
How to explain all the wretched things that are done in life?
Whence came sin?

Christianity now added to the story of the garden.
The ‘sin’ of Adam is said to be ‘inherited’ by all humans.
Man is born with sin, in his very being = original sin.
Human beings are said to need saving from this original sin.

The result of this, is 2 billion people, on the planet, actually
accepting this assertion. A complex theology of ‘salvation’
follows [as does seemingly never-ending debate - between
Christians - over justification, righteousness, atonement,
source of authority, infallibilty of same, and so on.]

The lasting contribution that Christianity has made, is that it has
brought the knowledge of the one God - ‘monotheism’ -
to billions of people, over the last 20 centuries.

reen12
 
tommiatkins said:
Oh no, of course i dont beleive they are true!
i beleive the geneologys are false, Adam, if he existed at all, which is doubtful,wasnt the first man nor did anything of what he was puported to have done in the way it was described.

I beleive the science is correct.
I simply say that *If *the Geneology is true, as it *must *be if God inspired the bible, then adam wasnt the first man, which he is, (in the bible). Adam to be the first man would have to be 150000 years old and simply one of the hundreds of generations who picked up tools and slowly developed languages.

Cake cant be eaten both ways.
To be a christian who accepts the bible as the inspired word of god or the literal word of god then you cannot accept cavemen.

Cavemen did exist, this is provable. their ages are provable.
So The bible is therefore the ramblings of tribal theologans 3700 years ago making it up on the hoof.

They did a pretty good job holding it together for so long,
Code: 
but that says perhaps more about mankinds gullibility
😃
Click to expand...
So, perhaps, do you.

Pardon my asking, but: *Is English your first language? *This is at least the second thread I am aware of in which you have come up with a completely bizarro definition of an otherwise useful word.

*Inspired *does not mean literal.

tee
 
Assuming that they were homo sapians, they are left to the mercy of God, as all are who had no way of knowing of Jesus.

If they were not homo sapians, there is no way to know if they even had a soul to begin with.
 
A couple of things to think about.
  1. A literal interpretation of the genealogies from Adam is not necessary. I understand that one line of Biblical thought is that the antediluvian fathers were figures of tribes, not actual people. There very well could have been many more generations between Adam and Noah than the Bible specifically states without affecting the inerrancy of the Bible. Genesis was not meant to be a technical treatise on origins and descent.
  2. Adam was the first human. All of humanity descended from Adam. If science is accurate and mankind has existed for 150,000+ years, then Adam lived at least that long ago.
  3. Any precursor to humankind, no matter how close genetically to humans, were still animals with material souls. They had no need of salvation because their souls disappeared with death.
  4. Cavemen and other ancestral humans, like all other humans prior to Jesus, faced either Hell or the Limbo of the Fathers. They would have had, as the Church defines, invincible ignorance of Christ, and there is hope for salvation for those in invincible ignorance.
Hope that helps!
 
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