God on Abortion - Hosea

[bsdman]

This is a hard one for me to explain:

Hosea 13:16
Samaria will be held guilty, For she has rebelled against her God. They will fall by the sword, Their little ones will be dashed in pieces, And their pregnant women will be ripped open.

I believe God must punish Samaria as evil doers against God and against the Israelites, but the last one about pregnant woman is pretty hard for me to understand.

Did God okay abortion in this specific case?

 

[itsjustdave1988]

This is a hard one for me to explain:

I believe God must punish Samaria as evil doers against God and against the Israelites, but the last one about pregnant woman is pretty hard for me to understand.

Did God okay abortion in this specific case?

The adults had sinned mortally. The children had not, but life is a moment to moment gift. God decided to stop giving it.

If God gives me each new breath as an undeserved gift, is he immoral in not continuing to give me undeserved gifts? Think of it this way: I have teenagers and two weeks ago, as an undeserved gift, I gave each of them $15. I gave it to them again the following week, as a undeserved gift. If I should decide, for my own reasons, not to give them each $15 this week, have I violated justice in any way? Did they have a right to such gratuitous gifts? If so, then how could they be called “GIFTS?”

God is known to have wiped out all humanity in a flood, excepting a few. Don’t you think pregnant women may have been included in that punishment?

I think perhaps we need to look at life on earth as a gift, and not something that is owed to us by God.

God is the Lord of life. He gives life, and takes it away. Killing is wrong precisely because it is a violation of rights of God, the Lord of life. If God just stops giving there is nothing wrong.

 

[Nita]

This is a hard one for me to explain:

I believe God must punish Samaria as evil doers against God and against the Israelites, but the last one about pregnant woman is pretty hard for me to understand.

Did God okay abortion in this specific case?

No, God is not okaying abortion. He is foretelling what will happen in Samaria (Northern kingdom of Israel) in the days to come because they had abandoned God - separated themselves from Him (vs 1,2,6, etc0, - God, who was their help and protection. He is letting them know what will happen now that they no longer have Him to intervene and guard them from their enemies.

Hosea 13:9 Destruction is thy own, O Israel: thy help is only in Me. (Douay)

God is telling them what will happen so that they will recognize their sin, see how much they need Him, repent and return to Him.

Hosea 14:2 Return O Israel, to the Lord thy God: for thou hast fallen down by thy iniquity.

Nita

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

This is a hard one for me to explain:

I believe God must punish Samaria as evil doers against God and against the Israelites, but the last one about pregnant woman is pretty hard for me to understand.

Did God okay abortion in this specific case?

It needn’t be ​

Three points:

• 1. A single event can perfectly well be a great sin (on the part of man) & a judgement for sin, on the sufferer, by God, who uses even human wickedness for His own Righteous purposes.
• 1. Barbarities such as this were common in war - God is not defending Israel from them.
• 1. We can’t read back Catholic bio-ethics into the OT. The people of God in the OT were not Catholics, & they were not Christians. We have to read the Bible in awareness of its historical setting; not project into the 8th century BC ideas which are much later. The continuity of the OT with us living now is not of that uniform sort, but is the genetic & organic continuity of a living body.
     Look at the context - don’t isolate single verses; the context is usually enough to explain a difficulty

Hope that helps

 

[Nita]

Gottle of Geer;3264152[*:

1. We can’t read back Catholic bio-ethics into the OT. The people of God in the OT were not Catholics, & they were not Christians. We have to read the Bible in awareness of its historical setting; not project into the 8th century BC ideas which are much later. The continuity of the OT with us living now is not of that uniform sort, but is the genetic & organic continuity of a living body.
   Look at the context - don’t isolate single verses; the context is usually enough to explain a difficulty

Hope that helps

Culture changes over time, but God is unchangeable - He is the same now and forever (cf Mal 3:6; James 1:17). That, I think, is what the opening poster found troubling - how can God forbid the taking of innocent life and then seem to condone it in other instances.

Nita

 

[bsdman]

No, God is not okaying abortion. He is foretelling what will happen in Samaria (Northern kingdom of Israel) in the days to come because they had abandoned God - separated themselves from Him (vs 1,2,6, etc0, - God, who was their help and protection. He is letting them know what will happen now that they no longer have Him to intervene and guard them from their enemies.

Hosea 13:9 Destruction is thy own, O Israel: thy help is only in Me. (Douay)

God is telling them what will happen so that they will recognize their sin, see how much they need Him, repent and return to Him.

Hosea 14:2 Return O Israel, to the Lord thy God: for thou hast fallen down by thy iniquity.

Nita

Nita - I think this was the path I was starting to go on. I wasn’t quite sure about it because it is a bit tricky to read. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut!!

 

[rtconstant]

Culture changes over time, but God is unchangeable - He is the same now and forever (cf Mal 3:6; James 1:17). That, I think, is what the opening poster found troubling - how can God forbid the taking of innocent life and then seem to condone it in other instances.

Nita

Yes but I think that Gottle is trying to convey that not everything in Bible or even prophesy is an act of God. In this case God is simply telling Samaria that His protection will be withdrawn from them at these critical moments. It doesn’t mean he approves of what’s going to happen it simply means that if Samaria thinks they can handle things without God during the good times then they will be left to handle things without Him during the bad.

God often allowed the ungodly to teach His people lessons. Various nations in the OT were allowed to conquer Israel but they were later held accountable for their actions. So while God may see that withholding protection may teach valuable lessons to His people it doesn’t mean that those who are attempting evil against them are not themselves responsible.

 

[Nita]

Yes but I think that Gottle is trying to convey that not everything in Bible or even prophesy is an act of God. In this case God is simply telling Samaria that His protection will be withdrawn from them at these critical moments. It doesn’t mean he approves of what’s going to happen it simply means that if Samaria thinks they can handle things without God during the good times then they will be left to handle things without Him during the bad.

God often allowed the ungodly to teach His people lessons. Various nations in the OT were allowed to conquer Israel but they were later held accountable for their actions. So while God may see that withholding protection may teach valuable lessons to His people it doesn’t mean that those who are attempting evil against them are not themselves responsible.

I agree. It was what I was attempting to communicate in my response to the OP.

Nita