God or no God

[Charlemagne_II]

Della

** They certainly don’t want to really know the answer in the here and now or they wouldn’t be asking questions they really don’t want answered. **

I would tell them the truth and ride a fast horse.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

R C
**
These things are quickly dismissed by those who call themselves atheist, not by an act of reason which requires engaging intellectual disquisition until the proposition or argument is shown to be unsound or illogic, but by a mere act of will, simply refusing to consider the proposition or arguments. **

Some atheists will consider the proposition, but as you say, they dismiss it, no matter how suggestive the evidence may be that there is a God. Just as people will themselves to believe in God, others will themselves not to. The will is certainly more powerful than the intellect in this matter. That is why God appeals to our hearts more so than to our heads.

With our heads we lie to ourselves all the time … because we want to.

A heart full of hate has a hard time finding God. Hence the notorious anger of atheists.

“The only way to kill God is to deny he exists.”

A futile exertion, since you can never get God out of your head, never mind your heart.

 

[Publisher]

If a person doesn’t believe in God, then they do not believe in any concept of Heaven. If they do not believe in Heaven then they can’t say they feel like they are in Hell because Hell being the opposite of Heaven in God terms. So much an atheist don’t realise by saying they don’t believe there is a God ?
your thoughts…

One does not necessarily have to believe in a god to believe in an afterlife. One can believe the life foce continues “in some way” after death.

Heaven as conceived by most theists doesn’t sound very inviting…neither does their concept of hell.

One does not have to accept a theistic concept of deity nor a theistic concept of “heaven” or “hell” to believe in an afterlife.

An atheist simply does not have to embrace your beliefs and then reject them…and the way most Christians, Muslims, Jews and other ‘religious people’ live their lives, it could be said they don’t “believe” the things they profess either…or their lives would show it to a greater extent than most religous people display their faith.

There are Friends who claim to be “atheist” or “agnostic” Quakers…‘non-theist" believers who do not embrace "theistic thought’.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Publisher

Heaven as conceived by most theists doesn’t sound very inviting…neither does their concept of hell.

Why?

 

[ngill09]

I call things the way they are, without re-defining terms or coining new ones. As for truth, it doesn’t come in gradations: a proposition is either true or false.

*Atheism *is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities, or the belief that there are no deities. Since we cannot prove that God does not exist, this translates to an act not of reason, but of will.

Note the sleight-of-hand here. You first define atheism as the lack of belief in deities, and then assert that such disbelief can only be sustained through sheer willpower. How much willpower does it take one to not do something? In some cases, it might take some, in others it takes no thought at all. Consider the many millions of Chinese atheists who give theistic religion no thought at all throughout their entire lives.

What is this act of the will?

The act of believing on a given proposition.

What is that proposition?

“There is no God.”

This position is characterized by a peculiar sense of pride in the human being, in the human mind, although interestingly it is necessarily accompanied by materialistic and relativistic beliefs that do not confer much honor upon the human being, but rather see him as some sort of superior mammal, who randomly came into being and whose existence has no purpose besides doing what one wants (possibly in such a way that maximum well-being for himself is achieved without hindering the society and ecosystem that provides that well-being, which, as Hobbes shows, leads inexorably to the state of nature).

An agnostic, instead, acts out of reason: he is open to the possibility that there may be a God, but he perceives that he does not know whether this proposition, namely “there is a God”, holds true or false, and he, by an act of reason, calls himself an agnostic, from the Greek “to not know”. It is also a position that requires a certain degree of humbleness.

To an agnostic one can show the evidence available to reason alone that hint with almost certainty to the existence of an Intelligent Creator - some incredibly complex in their philosophy, others even too simplistic. With an agnostic one can discuss the *reasonableness *of some of the major stumbling blocks of Christianity, such as miracles, the Resurrection, the visible authoritative Church, the states of heaven and hell (mind you, I did not say one can convince him of their truthfulness, only that one can discuss with them whether these things are, through reason alone, sound and logical).

These things are quickly dismissed by those who call themselves atheist, not by an act of reason which requires engaging intellectual disquisition until the proposition or argument is shown to be unsound or illogic, but by a mere act of will, simply refusing to consider the proposition or arguments.

You should become aware that agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive categories as you have described here. Your post here is largely composed of assertions and misinformation that would be easily rectified if you applied your will to remove your sensory apparati from your rectum and paid attention to the world outside your head for even the short amount of time it would take for you to honestly converse with one of the people you wish to slander.

R C
**
These things are quickly dismissed by those who call themselves atheist, not by an act of reason which requires engaging intellectual disquisition until the proposition or argument is shown to be unsound or illogic, but by a mere act of will, simply refusing to consider the proposition or arguments. **

Some atheists will consider the proposition, but as you say, they dismiss it, no matter how suggestive the evidence may be that there is a God. Just as people will themselves to believe in God, others will themselves not to. The will is certainly more powerful than the intellect in this matter. That is why God appeals to our hearts more so than to our heads.

With our heads we lie to ourselves all the time … because we want to.

A heart full of hate has a hard time finding God. Hence the notorious anger of atheists.

“The only way to kill God is to deny he exists.”

A futile exertion, since you can never get God out of your head, never mind your heart.

Perhaps the reason you find atheists so angry is because you harbor an obnoxious bias towards them, which quickly annoys and infuriates them. Similar to how vocal racists might find the objects of their hatred to be often angry.

 

[englishredrose]

I wont interrupt anyone flow of converstation but just to say I am reading and it is helping me see/work out why my mind don’t settle on this. Mainly because there isn’t a black and white answer but ‘enjoy’ reading what others say.

As in reference to agnostic and atheist I mean athesit and not agnostic because agnostics do believe in ‘a god/God.’ I am guessing there can be agnostic christians officially I mean not just by individual interpretation of where one is at. I dont mean there is a Church out there for them all to attend per se just by general definition. But in view of my opening post agnostics believe in a g/God of some variety and therefore concepts of Heaven and Hell are open to them may be if they choose/willing to accept.

But atheists and those who don’t class themselves as anything at all, (not necessarily no religion because can believe in God but not affliated to any docrtrine quite easily) just there is no God is what am interested in and yeh for some it could be a figure of speech but for others who are strict in their no faith would they use it because it is loaded with religious connotations that there is a God. A really thoughtful atheist or person with no g/God may choose some other forms of expression because they understand state they feel like it hell is admitting there is a God.

please continue discussing and don’t worry about me not responding as such because I am reading. I have posted to learn rather than discuss and sometimes when one is involved in the discussing one gets carried away with their own thoughts rather than finding out what is out there

 

[Charlemagne_II]

ngill

**Perhaps the reason you find atheists so angry is because you harbor an obnoxious bias towards them, which quickly annoys and infuriates them. Similar to how vocal racists might find the objects of their hatred to be often angry. **

Lighten up, buster!

Having been an atheist, I know all about atheist anger. It doesn’t come from Christian hatred. It doesn’t come at all from atheists hearing Christians psychoanalyze them with concern for their salvation. It comes from something else. There may be a hundred different causes for atheist anger. For example, some atheists have a problem with authority figures … God being the ultimate authority figure.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

As in reference to agnostic and atheist I mean athesit and not agnostic because agnostics do believe in ‘a god/God.’ I am guessing there can be agnostic christians officially I mean not just by individual interpretation of where one is at.

Some do, some don’t. One can be an agnostic Christian, agnostic Hindu, agnostic atheist, so on (explanation)…

But atheists and those who don’t class themselves as anything at all, (not necessarily no religion because can believe in God but not affliated to any docrtrine quite easily) just there is no God is what am interested in and yeh for some it could be a figure of speech but for others who are strict in their no faith would they use it because it is loaded with religious connotations that there is a God.

The term “non-religious” encapsulates that group. Some people in that group may think there is a God, but that doesn’t tell you much since their god-concept may not be the Christian god-concept.

A really thoughtful atheist or person with no g/God may choose some other forms of expression because they understand state they feel like it hell is admitting there is a God.

Or s/he could choose a wording that s/he knows will communicate the intended message to the audience.

 

[R_C]

@ngill09 to attack the opponent instead of the argument is the weakest and most childish of all replies. And I did report your post for offensiveness and rudeness. I heard that washing the mouth with some good soap may help, though.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Consider the many millions of Chinese atheists who give theistic religion no thought at all throughout their entire lives.

This reminded me of something a friends daughter is experiencing. The friend is non-religious. The friend decided to not indoctrinate her child either way on the existence of any god and let the girl figure it out on her own . While the daughter has familiarity with religious icons and some of the better known stories, religion wasn’t part of her formative years nor was it something she encountered in day to day life until the last month.

The mother enrolled her daughter in a private (religious) school. A teacher had asked the students to write something about God. Thee girl wrote nothing giving the explanation that she doesn’t know much about God. Now among some of her classmates and at least one teacher she is labeled as being rebellious.

 

[ngill09]

ngill

**Perhaps the reason you find atheists so angry is because you harbor an obnoxious bias towards them, which quickly annoys and infuriates them. Similar to how vocal racists might find the objects of their hatred to be often angry. **

Lighten up, buster!

Having been an atheist, I know all about atheist anger. It doesn’t come from Christian hatred. It doesn’t come at all from atheists hearing Christians psychoanalyze them with concern for their salvation. It comes from something else. There may be a hundred different causes for atheist anger. For example, some atheists have a problem with authority figures … God being the ultimate authority figure.

Converting to Christianity doesn’t seem to have helped your condescension and anger problems.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

ngill

Consider the many millions of Chinese atheists who give theistic religion no thought at all throughout their entire lives.

Go live in China. See how you like it.

**Converting to Christianity doesn’t seem to have helped your condescension and anger problems. **

I said nothing in anger. That was pure analysis. Sorry if pure analysis angers you.