God Save the Queen at Mass

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agp2176

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I have a question for folks here who live in countries that are a part of the British Commonwealth.

My question stems from two things. First is that as it was a national holiday here in the USA today, my accompanist and I were talking about the appropriateness of doing a patriotic song at dismissal. In one parish, that he plays at they insist that he do America or God Bless America, and at times The Star Spangled Banner. I chose Lord of Nations, God Eternal as a hymn to ask God’s blessings upon our nation. The second is that, I am moving from the USA to Canada at the end of this month. I have attended Masses where at Canada Day we have sung O Canada.

BTW – My point here is not to debate the merits of any national hymn, but rather to ask a question that has been rolling about my brain.

In Commonwealth nations is God Save The Queen, or King as it were, ever sung at dismissal at Mass on national holidays? I can see why it might be, but also see why it might not be as the monarch is the head of the CofE.

Any one care to share?

God bless

Tony
 
I live in Trinidad, West Indies. In the 38 years that I have lived here I have never heard “God save the Queen” sung anywhere, much less at Mass. Being an independent country for 48 years, why would we sing that?

The Trinidad National Anthem is played in some churches here on our Independence Day, or on Republic Day.

Personally, I think detest this. Fine to pray for the country, the government, etc., but I think it is totally inappropriate to sing the National Anthem, since it is not a hymn. One of these days, I will sit down when this happens!

Being Irish, I cannot understand why, after having gained independence, any country would want to be still tied to the Queen (King) in any form whatever!
 
Joan

I understand what you are saying as regard to Trinidad. Perhaps my referring to the British Commonwealth was incorrect. I probably meant to say ‘where the monarch, Elizabeth II, is considered head of state’, as she is in Australia, New Zealand, Bermuda and Canada, to name a few

God bless

Tony
 
It will never happen in Northern Ireland for obvious reasons. Interesting subject. God bless.
 
agp2176 said:
I have a question for folks here who live in countries that are a part of the British Commonwealth.

My question stems from two things. First is that as it was a national holiday here in the USA today, my accompanist and I were talking about the appropriateness of doing a patriotic song at dismissal. In one parish, that he plays at they insist that he do America or God Bless America, and at times The Star Spangled Banner. I chose Lord of Nations, God Eternal as a hymn to ask God’s blessings upon our nation. The second is that, I am moving from the USA to Canada at the end of this month. I have attended Masses where at Canada Day we have sung O Canada.

BTW – My point here is not to debate the merits of any national hymn, but rather to ask a question that has been rolling about my brain.

In Commonwealth nations is God Save The Queen, or King as it were, ever sung at dismissal at Mass on national holidays? I can see why it might be, but also see why it might not be as the monarch is the head of the CofE.

Any one care to share?

God bless

Tony
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Gosh goodness me NO!!!
As the queen is head of the church of England it would be a conflict of interests.It has never happened at any Mass i have ever attended.However I am not sure if it is licit or not.
I feel it would be wholely inappropriate for ‘God save the queen’ to be sung in a Catholic Church and I would find it offensive to God.
Just to add I would find it offensive and so would all the catholics I know
 
I have never heard “God Save the Queen” sung at Mass, though that might be because most Canadians (myself included) probably do not know its lyrics. I can count on one hand how many times I’ve heard “God Save the Queen” sung in public.
 
agp2176 said:
Joan

I understand what you are saying as regard to Trinidad. Perhaps my referring to the British Commonwealth was incorrect. I probably meant to say ‘where the monarch, Elizabeth II, is considered head of state’, as she is in Australia, New Zealand, Bermuda and Canada, to name a few

God bless

Tony
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Although The Queen is the head of state in a number of Commonwealth countries I think they all have their own national anthems. “God save The Queen” is only the national anthem in the UK. I don’t think any national anthem should be sung at Mass. If it is licit then I do not see why it should not be sung in a Catholic Church even though The Queen is head of the CofE. I am both British and Catholic, not either or.
 
Matthew_Holford said:
Although The Queen is the head of state in a number of Commonwealth countries I think they all have their own national anthems. “God save The Queen” is only the national anthem in the UK. I don’t think any national anthem should be sung at Mass. If it is licit then I do not see why it should not be sung in a Catholic Church even though The Queen is head of the CofE. I am both British and Catholic, not either or.
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Canada being one nation where the Queen is still head of state. It has ‘O Canada’ as its national anthem rather than God Save the Queen.

Australia (my homeland) likewise has ‘Advance Australia Fair’. And New Zealand has ‘God Defend New Zealand’. I’m sure the same applies to the vast majority of other countries where the Queen is head of state.

To answer the real underlying question - I’ve never heard our national anthem (nor God Save the Queen) played before, during or after Mass, not on Australia Day (our national holiday) nor on any other occasion.
 
I have never heard “God Save the Queen” played in a Catholic church. We don’t actually have “national” holidays as such, rather “bank” holidays.

Come to think of it, I never heard it played in an Anglican church either.
 
To my knowledge God Save the Queen (or Advance Australia Fair) has never been sung during Mass in Australia. It wasn’t because the Queen was/is also the head of the Church of England, it was and is simpy inappropriate to sing the national anthem during Mass.

Singing national anthems during Mass could lead to all sorts of unexpected problems in different countries, could you imagine Germany singing their Nazi period national anthem during mass (as an extreme example).

The Mass is not the place for patriotism and jingoism, the Mass is a universal celebration.
 
Thank you to all for your great insight. I agree that singing the (any) national anthem during Mass is wrong. In many cases in the USA it has been sung as the dismissal hymn, which is slightly less problematic (only slightly), but still rubs me the wrong way. Odd though, that it (The US national anthem) is in the missalette here.

God bless

Tony
 
What is the difference from having national flags in the church? Are hymns at dismissal liturgical?

Offtopic but, the Irish should not speak about independence, since they so happily gave it away in the Lisbon Treaty referendum.
 
I’ve sung “O Canada!” at Mass on July 1 & November 11 during the years I worshipped at military chapels and those years when my pastor happened to be a military brat.

I’ve never sung “God Save the Queen” anywhere but at our military Cemetery on November 11 (they play the national anthem of each nation that has members buried there) and I only hear it during the Vice-Regal salute at the annual Drama Festival when the Lieutenant-Governor shows up on the last night or during visits from Her Majesty or the Governor General.
 
@ ROVEAU,

“Singing national anthems during Mass could lead to all sorts of unexpected problems in different countries, could you imagine Germany singing their Nazi period national anthem during mass (as an extreme example).”

Yes you are indeed correct, imagine French one after the mass, “allez les enfants” that’s bloody one!

About the common wealtth ( no wealth in common now anyway ) Its just a term that the queen just loves to linger on.

In India, I don’t think that people even know that UK’s national anthem is “God saves the queen” I just know nothing more than the title. Even with title how can it be patriotic to have Only the Queen be saved but not England . I am sorry , I am a bit nationalist here !

About the national anthem during the mass, In India , the independence day and the Assumption day falls on the same day, 15th August. We Catholics by default attend mass on that day, I have never heard any patriotic song is sung in the Church by the choir during the mass. But we do have the flag hoisting in front of the Churches after the mass. That is truly appropriate I guess. Its only done once in a year.
Joe
 
agp2176 said:
Joan

I understand what you are saying as regard to Trinidad. Perhaps my referring to the British Commonwealth was incorrect. I probably meant to say ‘where the monarch, Elizabeth II, is considered head of state’, as she is in Australia, New Zealand, Bermuda and Canada, to name a few

God bless

Tony
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Sure, Tony, I understand. What I cannot understand is why Australia, etc., would even consider having the Monarch of Britain as their head of state. It is far too colonial! Even little third world Trinidad will not do that, although we are still foolish enough to retain the Privy Council as our final court of justice!
 
I’ve never heard nor sung God Save the Queen at Mass in England nor in any of the commonwealth states I’ve visited. I don’t know if there is an official Church position on the singing of national anthems at Mass, though. In the case of countries where the lyrics make a positive reference to God and perhaps ask His blessing on the land, perhaps it is allowed by the local bishops…
 
agp2176 said:
I have a question for folks here who live in countries that are a part of the British Commonwealth.

My question stems from two things. First is that as it was a national holiday here in the USA today, my accompanist and I were talking about the appropriateness of doing a patriotic song at dismissal. In one parish, that he plays at they insist that he do America or God Bless America, and at times The Star Spangled Banner. I chose Lord of Nations, God Eternal as a hymn to ask God’s blessings upon our nation. The second is that, I am moving from the USA to Canada at the end of this month. I have attended Masses where at Canada Day we have sung O Canada.

BTW – My point here is not to debate the merits of any national hymn, but rather to ask a question that has been rolling about my brain.

In Commonwealth nations is God Save The Queen, or King as it were, ever sung at dismissal at Mass on national holidays? I can see why it might be, but also see why it might not be as the monarch is the head of the CofE.

Any one care to share?

God bless

Tony
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hi tony,

i live in canada, and i never hear God save the queen at Mass. it might be different in other parishes, but i have never heard it sung here. not even on Canada day.
 
MerryCatholic said:
hi tony,

i live in canada, and i never hear God save the queen at Mass. it might be different in other parishes, but i have never heard it sung here. not even on Canada day.
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If anything we’d be more likely to hear it on Victoria Day but that doesn’t happen either.
 
Dear Friends,

I am a Canadian and a monarchist too!

“God save the Queen” is Canada’s Royal anthem as opposed to “O Canada” which is our national anthem (in which the Queen is mentioned as well).

God save the Queen is also a prayer FOR the Queen and is based on biblical texts - I know Anglicans sing it but I’ve never head RC’s sing it at any time, but there is no reason why they should not as, once again, it is a prayer for the head of state which is Queen Elizabeth the Second, the Queen of Canada. In my Catholic high school, there was and is a picture of Her Majesty the Queen near the head office beside which stands a Union Jack or Banner which is, by law, Canada’s Royal flag and is flown on all Crown buildings and also on days such as Commonwealth Day, Statue of Westminister Day, Victoria Day etc. When the Queen is here, as she was recently and I had the privilege of meeting her, then her personal flag as Queen of Canada is flown. But I digress . . .

Prayers for the Queen will be made in Church during Mass, to be sure and I certainly pray for her and her governors in Canada daily.

FYI, the Queen is NOT the “head of the Church of England.” In fact, only Henry VIII (who was a schismatic Roman Catholic and never a Protestant) declared himself to be such a head. No other British monarch ever dared make such a claim. The Queen is the Guardian of the Churches of England and Scotland only which are ruled by their respective primates.

However, when I asked her in our brief conversation how she and her family celebrate the holidays like Christmas, she told me that they begin by “attending a Mass . . .” 👍

Anglican, of course, but she is obviously very comfortable with Catholic terminology.

God Save The Queen!!

Alex
 
Joan_M said:
Sure, Tony, I understand. What I cannot understand is why Australia, etc., would even consider having the Monarch of Britain as their head of state. It is far too colonial! Even little third world Trinidad will not do that, although we are still foolish enough to retain the Privy Council as our final court of justice!
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Actually, Joan, I love having the Queen as Head of State and also knowing that she is the Head of State of 16 countries of different religious, cultural and racial backgrounds. Nationalism and chauvinism based on religious/cultural identity is the curse of the modern world. A shared international head of state is, for me and many, a wonderful antidote to that disease.

Canada is not less “Canadian” for having a Monarch who resides primarily in Britain. Canada would not be Canada were it not for the Monarchy - our bilingual and multicultural traditions come from the fact that we have a head of State who is descended from 37 + European and Asian royal lines (including the T’ang Dynasty of Tibet in the ninth century where the Assyrian Christian Church there at that time had 20 bishops and was otherwise a flourishing Christian community).

As for colonialism, if we voted to get rid of the Monarchy - would tanks from Britain roll into Canada as would be the case in many republics faced with the prospect of a breakaway state or province? Not at all.

Republics of independent countries today tend to be dictatorial. Most monarchies (and 25% of the countries of the world are monarchies) such as in Spain and even Morocco promote and protect democratic rights.

God Save The Queen! (As for Trinidad, it is never too late to come back 😃 )

Alex
 
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