God speaking to us?

[ZenFred]

I have always wondered and been troubled why God doesn’t seem to speak to seekers on a regular/reliable basis.

I had an experience today that further complicated the question. In a seperate thread I had asked about Christain view of suffering and on a crazy “coincidence” I was at a patients home who happened to be listen to a radio preacher on the very topic about suffering as training and preparing us for God’s blessings. Part of me thought what many of you might think it was no coincidence but God’s veiled message to me.

Yet later that day I was organizing our books after our move and happened upon a treasury of buddhist books my wife had kept from a college class. Was that a “coincidence”? Basically if you say God was telling me something via the radio was the devil working to help me find those books? If that’s true, how do I know which is which?
If the radio was a message but the books were just luck, how am I supposed to decode the right messages? It doesn’t seem right that receiving the gospel depends on my own ability to get the hint. In order to make a true, free decision I need to be fairly presented with the facts. Otherwise non-Christains end up in hell due to God’s deception or at least neglect.

 

[Neoplatonist]

Was your interior experience of both occurrences the same?

If you know your loved one well, then she would know which gift was yours because it would thrill her and resonate with her.

 

[fred_conty]

The seekers need good will first of all. If a seeker only wants what they themselves want, then their seeking is self centered and not God centered. And then they are only listening for ideas which satisfy them and not what God wants them to hear. So they only think that God is silent while they are the ones not listening.

It isn’t unusual for a person to have a special encounter with God when they hit a low in their life and they shout to God for help. It is at these times that God is heard because they are listening. And God in his mercy helps them. God loves everyone and it is at these special times when a person opens up the jail of his bias opinions. It is unfortunate that at other times so often a person does not hear God because they aren’t ready to listen to what God wants to tell them because they only see as they have always seen, and want to hear what they want.

And on another note, God did provide us with a way to know his truth, and that is his church. The church is the spokesman for God so we wouldn’t get lost in the maze of philosophies and religious thoughts which lead to false answers about life. This church knowledge is the ruler by which we measure all other ideas to sort thru the fog of error. If what we feel is God’s personal communication with us is not in tune with what the church says, then we can be sure it isn’t from God as it may seem. We are guided by our principles of true faith in understanding, with others in the church to help us impartially interpret the signs of God.

For myself, I personally don’t look for any signs of God in my life except what my faith and my church tell me to look for, mainly the sacraments. Other than that, the special gift of God is that of his life and love residing in our soul by his grace. That special gift enables us to be one with God and to hear him. It enables one to have the relationship of friend and be in constant communication with him. This is the regualar and reliable basis.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.

 

[Bradski]

I have always wondered and been troubled why God doesn’t seem to speak to seekers on a regular/reliable basis.

I had an experience today that further complicated the question. In a seperate thread I had asked about Christain view of suffering and on a crazy “coincidence” I was at a patients home who happened to be listen to a radio preacher on the very topic about suffering as training and preparing us for God’s blessings. Part of me thought what many of you might think it was no coincidence but God’s veiled message to me.

It’s called confirmation bias. If you want and/or expect a message from God, then you’ll get one. Bhuddists and Hindus don’t expect any and, not surprisingly, don’t get any.

 

[tonyrey]

I have always wondered and been troubled why God doesn’t seem to speak to seekers on a regular/reliable basis.

I had an experience today that further complicated the question. In a seperate thread I had asked about Christain view of suffering and on a crazy “coincidence” I was at a patients home who happened to be listen to a radio preacher on the very topic about suffering as training and preparing us for God’s blessings. Part of me thought what many of you might think it was no coincidence but God’s veiled message to me.

Yet later that day I was organizing our books after our move and happened upon a treasury of buddhist books my wife had kept from a college class. Was that a “coincidence”? Basically if you say God was telling me something via the radio was the devil working to help me find those books? If that’s true, how do I know which is which?
If the radio was a message but the books were just luck, how am I supposed to decode the right messages? It doesn’t seem right that receiving the gospel depends on my own ability to get the hint. In order to make a true, free decision I need to be fairly presented with the facts. Otherwise non-Christains end up in hell due to God’s deception or at least neglect.

No one is in hell due to ignorance. We are all presented with the fact that the moral teaching of Jesus is the greatest the world has ever known. His revelation that God is a loving Father who cares for everyone is the only rational foundation for the principles of liberty, equality and** fraternity**. They would not make sense if we were related solely by an accident of birth. Love is infinitely superior to compassion and detachment…

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I have always wondered and been troubled why God doesn’t seem to speak to seekers on a regular/reliable basis.

I had an experience today that further complicated the question. In a seperate thread I had asked about Christain view of suffering and on a crazy “coincidence” I was at a patients home who happened to be listen to a radio preacher on the very topic about suffering as training and preparing us for God’s blessings. Part of me thought what many of you might think it was no coincidence but God’s veiled message to me.

Yet later that day I was organizing our books after our move and happened upon a treasury of buddhist books my wife had kept from a college class. Was that a “coincidence”? Basically if you say God was telling me something via the radio was the devil working to help me find those books? If that’s true, how do I know which is which?
If the radio was a message but the books were just luck, how am I supposed to decode the right messages? It doesn’t seem right that receiving the gospel depends on my own ability to get the hint. In order to make a true, free decision I need to be fairly presented with the facts. Otherwise non-Christains end up in hell due to God’s deception or at least neglect.

It’s a tricky area. I often mention “my old (Protestant) pastor” in various posts.

Last Sunday my wife and I went to a coffee meet after going to her (Baptist) church, something we’ve never done before, and probably won’t do again. We were just killing time before going to the cinema to see “God is not dead”.

I happened to find myself next to an elder from her church I’ve met before but never spoken to at any length.

Anyway I opened up with a bit of a broadside about “my old pastor” and some of his predictions. There was silence for a few seconds, and he then said, “Was this pastor Bob Missenden?” I replied yes, with some surprise.

It turned out the bloke I’d been talking to had been the home missionary for one of the churches in Rev. Missenden’s parish a couple of years before I’d joined.

Did God somehow put the two of us together as we had this common ground which neither of us knew before?

I don’t know, but if He did, there will be further developments down the line. It won’t stop there.

If He didn’t, that will probably be the end of it.

Usually if God’s behind it, there will be some further development.

In the case of visiting the patient’s home, there might have been a bit of God’s timing in that incident regarding the radio. You might start getting more hints about God “talking to you”.

But in the case of your wife’s books, you’d moved anyway and sooner or later you were going to come across the books due to the mere fact you had to unpack them sooner or later. So I’m inclined to think that one is no more than an unavoidable incident in the long run.

Sometimes you just have to wait to find out which way the wind’s blowing.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

It’s a tricky area. I often mention “my old (Protestant) pastor” in various posts…

Last Sunday my wife and I went to a coffee meet after going to her (Baptist) church, something we’ve never done before, and probably won’t do again. We were just killing time before going to the cinema to see “God is not dead”…

.

I extracted the quote from my post immediately above.

As a further slight twist in the tale, we got into the cinema using a cinema gift card I received for my birthday recently.

The twist is that the card was given to me by the youngest son of the old pastor (Rev. Missenden) and his wife.

Coincidence or God being subtle? I don’t know. Time will tell.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Coincidence or God being subtle? I don’t know. Time will tell.

God being subtle?

If anyone can be subtle, it would be God!

When I retired from teaching I started thinking about getting myself active in some kind of ministry. For many years I had been a fan of Jacques Maritain, and had even corresponded with him in my youth. One day I was in a used books store leafing through the philosophy section and came upon a book by Maritain. Reading the Preface to the book by someone else, it was pointed out that Maritain’s last literary act was to autograph one of his books book presented to him by a prisoner. Eventually I entered the prison ministry and have been there ever since.

Was that God being subtle, or not so subtle?

 

[ZenFred]

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful responses.

I must admit that I was rather angry and bitter when I posted this thread. I feel that I lost sight of the calm objectivity and respect for others’ traditions and for the church that I strive to maintain. However there is a lot at stake potentially in the question of the gospel’s truth and is a question plagued with uncertainty by it’s very nature.

Your responses have helped me remind me of the key points in the issue:

God has, or has been claimed to have, provided a clear and understandable explanation of His existence and our relationship with Him through the Christain church and scriptures. If the church is to be believed, the seeker has the answers he is looking for.

However, the church unfortunately does not have the only claim to revelation of the truth and there are 100s of competing faiths or philosophies that all claim exclusivist from Mormonism to Islam to Zorastrianism. All of these belief systems state the falsehood of the others yet from an objective ground impossible to discern which to follow. They all compete for converts claiming they offer salvation and path to truth.

Apart from any of these revelations, God appears to reveal Hus presence but in vague, coded ways. He doesn’t offer a clear, direct path fit seekers to then consult the church. And religious experiences are found in all faiths and thus cannot be relied upon to point us correctly either.

The seeker is stuck, reluctant to make the wrong move and convert to wrong faith or to subject himself to delusion. But he does not want to reject the whispers of truth despite his ability to find their source.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

The seeker is stuck, reluctant to make the wrong move and convert to wrong faith or to subject himself to delusion. But he does not want to reject the whispers of truth despite his ability to find their source.

You would think that if there is a God, God would be revealing himself in a deliberate way so as to get us above the religious Tower of Babel. Now so far as I know, the only God that has revealed himself directly to mankind in person is the God of Abraham. That should narrow down the field some for you, if you believe that God might speak directly to guide our way.

But you would only get this sense of the God of Abraham speaking directly to us as no other “God” has spoken to us if you have read the Old and New Testaments.

 

[Aloysium]

. . . However there is a lot at stake potentially in the question of the gospel’s truth and is a question plagued with uncertainty by it’s very nature. . . . the church unfortunately does not have the only claim to revelation of the truth and there are 100s of competing faiths or philosophies that all claim exclusivist from Mormonism to Islam to Zorastrianism. All of these belief systems state the falsehood of the others yet from an objective ground impossible to discern which to follow. They all compete for converts claiming they offer salvation and path to truth. . . God appears to reveal Hus presence but in vague, coded ways. He doesn’t offer a clear, direct path fit seekers to then consult the church. And religious experiences are found in all faiths and thus cannot be relied upon to point us correctly either.

The seeker is stuck, reluctant to make the wrong move and convert to wrong faith or to subject himself to delusion. But he does not want to reject the whispers of truth despite his ability to find their source.

:twocents:

I think if you keep an open mind and heart, you will find God.
Living a life committed to love and reason, giving oneself to what is true and good, one will walk with God.
I find Him through participation in the Catholic Chuch.

I wouldn’t go on coincidences. In my experience, God speaks to us rationally - it makes sense. However, this is a very strange business, I can’t deny.

You are not Catholic, and are trying to figure out what’s up with all these religions.
I would say, learn from them all, if you are unsure.
Doing so, you will find that some will make more sense than others.

From what you say, you are a Buddhist interested in what is suffering.
Start here: Most Buddhist teaching refers to the the reality of Dukkha. Basically, it describes suffering as emerging from cravings rooted in ignorance. An ontological explanation, it does not address the temporal origins of Dukkha.
Christianity holds that it is the result of the original sin of mankind in the first man. While you may not buy this initially, you would have to admit that it is reasonable.
We thereby, as one humanity became disconnected from the Source of existence, falling into what is relative to the Truth, illusion.
In meditating, you will enter into a state of no-thingness, where there is only mind/being. That Oneness is actually a loving giving of oneself to what is other. Ultimately, the Oneness we seek is a mutually loving relationship with God. In that encounter, we find all humanity, all the angels and saints, in union with God.
I am Catholic because it is Jesus, who is man and God, sent by the father to pull us out of Dukkha; and as the Way, the one true Vine, He is who we grow into as we do our Father’s will. I could go on, but I’m not sure I am making sense. I know these words can be understood in different ways and that my understanding and ability to communicate is limited. In the end, as you know - you are the seeker in search of God, the Truth who is infinitely beautiful, good - the eternal source of all existence.
God speaks to us all the time, He wants us to find Him. This can only be done by being a loving person, doing His will. If you go down the wrong path, and are truly interested in knowing Him, He will guide you back.

 

[Michael19682]

I have always wondered and been troubled why God doesn’t seem to speak to seekers on a regular/reliable basis.

I had an experience today that further complicated the question. In a seperate thread I had asked about Christain view of suffering and on a crazy “coincidence” I was at a patients home who happened to be listen to a radio preacher on the very topic about suffering as training and preparing us for God’s blessings. Part of me thought what many of you might think it was no coincidence but God’s veiled message to me.

Yet later that day I was organizing our books after our move and happened upon a treasury of buddhist books my wife had kept from a college class. Was that a “coincidence”? Basically if you say God was telling me something via the radio was the devil working to help me find those books? If that’s true, how do I know which is which?
If the radio was a message but the books were just luck, how am I supposed to decode the right messages?** It doesn’t seem right that receiving the gospel depends on my own ability to get the hint. In order to make a true, free decision I need to be fairly presented with the facts. Otherwise non-Christains end up in hell due to God’s deception or at least neglect.**

‘Decoding’ and ‘getting the hint’ are problematic for me. They imply that God is not upfront and understandable. Especially in a world where we will eventually have things like ‘quantum encryption’, it seems as though the concept of ‘decoding’ is really the work of Satan as such pertains specifically to its relation to understanding a quite understandable God. Take one look at a depiction of the Crucifixion, and the message is apparent.
Also, if and only if we do need to do something akin to understanding God through code, then is it really any different that other religions which require “realizations” of the bare philosophy, or affinity to the meditative exercise, viz., experiencing Satori, Samadhi, Self-Realization. If all follow from the internal logic, then all conclusions, if true, should be of immediate and permanent import, or affect.
In as much as all religions require some effort to achieve an affect; Christianity requires occasionally that we struggle to “find God” in a situation. Often, this requires the passage of time during which understandable evidence suggests that good has evolved in dependence on the problem event, or, stated differently, that God has revealed himself through the very unfortunate event.

 

[tonyrey]

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful responses.

I must admit that I was rather angry and bitter when I posted this thread. I feel that I lost sight of the calm objectivity and respect for others’ traditions and for the church that I strive to maintain. However there is a lot at stake potentially in the question of the gospel’s truth and is a question plagued with uncertainty by it’s very nature.

Your responses have helped me remind me of the key points in the issue:

God has, or has been claimed to have, provided a clear and understandable explanation of His existence and our relationship with Him through the Christain church and scriptures. If the church is to be believed, the seeker has the answers he is looking for.

However, the church unfortunately does not have the only claim to revelation of the truth and there are 100s of competing faiths or philosophies that all claim exclusivist from Mormonism to Islam to Zorastrianism. All of these belief systems state the falsehood of the others yet from an objective ground impossible to discern which to follow. They all compete for converts claiming they offer salvation and path to truth.

Apart from any of these revelations, God appears to reveal Hus presence but in vague, coded ways. He doesn’t offer a clear, direct path fit seekers to then consult the church. And religious experiences are found in all faiths and thus cannot be relied upon to point us correctly either.

The seeker is stuck, reluctant to make the wrong move and convert to wrong faith or to subject himself to delusion. But he does not want to reject the whispers of truth despite his ability to find their source.

There is only one international community that has survived more than two thousand years, was founded by Jesus and has preserved His teaching that we have a loving Father in heaven who cares for all His creatures without exception.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful responses.

I must admit that I was rather angry and bitter when I posted this thread. I feel that I lost sight of the calm objectivity and respect for others’ traditions and for the church that I strive to maintain. However there is a lot at stake potentially in the question of the gospel’s truth and is a question plagued with uncertainty by it’s very nature.

Your responses have helped me remind me of the key points in the issue:

God has, or has been claimed to have, provided a clear and understandable explanation of His existence and our relationship with Him through the Christain church and scriptures. If the church is to be believed, the seeker has the answers he is looking for.

However, the church unfortunately does not have the only claim to revelation of the truth and there are 100s of competing faiths or philosophies that all claim exclusivist from Mormonism to Islam to Zorastrianism. All of these belief systems state the falsehood of the others yet from an objective ground impossible to discern which to follow. They all compete for converts claiming they offer salvation and path to truth.

Apart from any of these revelations, God appears to reveal Hus presence but in vague, coded ways. He doesn’t offer a clear, direct path fit seekers to then consult the church. And religious experiences are found in all faiths and thus cannot be relied upon to point us correctly either.

The seeker is stuck, reluctant to make the wrong move and convert to wrong faith or to subject himself to delusion. But he does not want to reject the whispers of truth despite his ability to find their source.

I remember talking to my Catholic psychiatrist about this (here we go, a bloke seeing a shrink and purporting to know what he’s talking about). At one time he commented “They’re (spiritual guidelines) always vague … if God approached us with any real power, He’d kill us”.

If there was anybody who seemed to have a hot line to God, it was my old pastor mentioned above, Rev. Missenden. When it came to prophetic ability, he was uncanny.

In addition, he’s turned up a couple of time in brief visions to me, after his death. On one occasion, well after I’d moved to the Catholic Church, and all he said was “The Catholic Church is closest to the truth”. Bear in mind he was a Protestant pastor who early on in his ministry gave the middle name Luther to one of his sons. Mind you, from later discussions, he had developed some doubts about the character of Martin Luther, but I won’t go into that here.

I’ve had some pretty clear guidance or suggestions at times eg.

1. Three “double whammies” like a breath going through in waves from head to foot, very pronounced, completely unexpected, and definitely imposed from without. In each case, it was used to highlight what someone else was saying.
2. “Voices” - one was, and it came out of the blue, and it sure didn’t come from me, as this was the last thing I wanted to hear - “Bob! What’s WRONG with being a writer?!”. On another occasioin I had a (very unsuitable) crush on a young lady in the church, and this time it was “Bob! Is (young lady’s name) SUITED to you??”

On another occasion I was watching an electrician crawling through our roof putting in lights, and belly aching about not having a trade. But as I looked at him working his sweaty way across the dusty insulation, this voice said “What’s so GREAT about that!”

1. On one occasion, early on in my Christian walk, I got a bit pally with God in my thought processes. I was driving down to a gym we had under the church at that time. The next thing I knew this sense of anger came down on me, and I literally thought I was going to disintegrate (bear in mind the psychiatrist’s comment above). I suspect Ananias and Sapphira may have felt something like this just before they dropped dead at Peter’s word. Peter didn’t kill them - God did.

I was so shaken all I could do ws pull over to the side of the road in a side street, wait for this sense of anger to subside, and then drive off home. I didn’t go to the gym that night - I was a bit too leery.

1. I’ve often mentioned that on the night my father died, he appeared in my room. I still remember his departing scream - sheer terror. And that was 35 years ago. Then he just disappeared, so rest assured, there’s a judgement.

But most of the time it’s vague, as you said. Even my old pastor, who was uncanny, used to preface his “prophecies” with “I think…” or “It seems to me …” In other words, even in his case, he was hedging his bets, just in case it wasn’t coming from God, since the devil and even our own thought processes can fog the issue.

So that’s some experiences I’ve thrown into the mix just to confuse you further.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Both Zenfred and I have made the comment that much of what might be called mystical experiences of God always seem vague.

I think the Jewish mystic school of Kabbalism teaches that for God to make way for the universe to be created, He had to vacate the premises so to speak. But I might be wrong.

However if God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, then to allow us any free will at all He does indeed have to make room by withdrawing or reducing Himself. Hence even when He came as the Son of Man in the form of Christ, He did not use force. In fact, He allowed His creature Man to push Him out of the world on a cross, to quote Bonhoeffer.

And the same goes for what might be called spiritual experiences. To give us room to move, even when He does grant “direct” experiences of His presence, they’re always relatively mild, or vague.

He leaves the searching to us.

But when we die, and our disembodied spirit come face to face with His omnipotent, unutterably holy gaze, it will be a different story. If we’re not ready for it, we’re not going to like it. You can be sure of that.

Since our body at that time will already be dead, then the face to face gaze will still be possible.

 

[Michael19682]

3. On one occasion, early on in my Christian walk,

 

[cjforJesus]

I remember talking to my Catholic psychiatrist about this (here we go, a bloke seeing a shrink and purporting to know what he’s talking about). At one time he commented “They’re (spiritual guidelines) always vague … if God approached us with any real power, He’d kill us”.

If there was anybody who seemed to have a hot line to God, it was my old pastor mentioned above, Rev. Missenden. When it came to prophetic ability, he was uncanny.

In addition, he’s turned up a couple of time in brief visions to me, after his death. On one occasion, well after I’d moved to the Catholic Church, and all he said was “The Catholic Church is closest to the truth”. Bear in mind he was a Protestant pastor who early on in his ministry gave the middle name Luther to one of his sons. Mind you, from later discussions, he had developed some doubts about the character of Martin Luther, but I won’t go into that here.

I’ve had some pretty clear guidance or suggestions at times eg.

1. Three “double whammies” like a breath going through in waves from head to foot, very pronounced, completely unexpected, and definitely imposed from without. In each case, it was used to highlight what someone else was saying.
2. “Voices” - one was, and it came out of the blue, and it sure didn’t come from me, as this was the last thing I wanted to hear - “Bob! What’s WRONG with being a writer?!”. On another occasioin I had a (very unsuitable) crush on a young lady in the church, and this time it was “Bob! Is (young lady’s name) SUITED to you??”

On another occasion I was watching an electrician crawling through our roof putting in lights, and belly aching about not having a trade. But as I looked at him working his sweaty way across the dusty insulation, this voice said “What’s so GREAT about that!”

1. On one occasion, early on in my Christian walk, I got a bit pally with God in my thought processes. I was driving down to a gym we had under the church at that time. The next thing I knew this sense of anger came down on me, and I literally thought I was going to disintegrate (bear in mind the psychiatrist’s comment above). I suspect Ananias and Sapphira may have felt something like this just before they dropped dead at Peter’s word. Peter didn’t kill them - God did.

I was so shaken all I could do ws pull over to the side of the road in a side street, wait for this sense of anger to subside, and then drive off home. I didn’t go to the gym that night - I was a bit too leery.

1. I’ve often mentioned that on the night my father died, he appeared in my room. I still remember his departing scream - sheer terror. And that was 35 years ago. Then he just disappeared, so rest assured, there’s a judgement.

But most of the time it’s vague, as you said. Even my old pastor, who was uncanny, used to preface his “prophecies” with “I think…” or “It seems to me …” In other words, even in his case, he was hedging his bets, just in case it wasn’t coming from God, since the devil and even our own thought processes can fog the issue.

So that’s some experiences I’ve thrown into the mix just to confuse you further.

Bob,you really equate these bizarre encounters with heavenly messages? I am pretty sure a voice telling you a laborers work is not honorable is not from God.

As far as the dead pastor appearing to you in a vision and telling you that Catholicism is CLOSEST to the truth,well that is hooey.The keys were given to Peter and the Church holds the fullness of truth. The vision therefore was being deceptive. NOT from God

 

[Overture]

It’s interesting the way this thread evolved. I can sympathize with the original author. I’m 26, and for most of my life I was intensely interested in religion and spirituality and sought “The Truth” in every path I walked down.

I realized that the “quest for Truth” ultimately leads to no answers, and leaves the seeker with a series of lightly-treaded alleys that have yielded no lasting fruit to speak of. It is above all else self-serving and a result of craving power and knowledge.

Before I set my sights firmly and solidly on Christianity (and Catholicism, specifically), I was very interested in Hinduism for several years. Its free-flowing philosophical nature and (sometimes) focus on devotion appealed to me.

Then I came to a realization: I know that God exists. The questions I always had is, “Which of the many paths is ‘correct’?” I realized that knowing the “right path” isn’t what matters. What mattered was that I surrendered completely to God, and set myself on the path of uncompromising devotion to Him. If somehow Christianity is “wrong” (a bit of a short-sighted analysis of things), then I’ve spent my life in selfless devotion to God, for which I have everything to gain and nothing to regret, regardless of the specific way that I worship. It’s about stopping this selfish quest to empower yourself personally, and instead settle down with a single religion that bears fruit in your life and pursue it without compromises.

I personally believe that Catholicism is the best outlet for this. I believe that Christianity is The Truth, because I’ve emptied myself out into it through faith and devotion, and Jesus has transformed my heart. So for all of those (such as C.S. Lewis and others) who say that if the Resurrection never happened, then Christianity is worthless and inconsequential, I completely disagree. If that is somehow the case, then the God who I know to exist worked through Christianity to change so many hearts, and orient to many lives toward His Glory.

And whether or not it’s “True” is of little importance.

 

[Aloysium]

. . . selfless devotion to God, for which I have everything to gain and nothing to regret, regardless of the specific way that I worship. It’s about stopping this selfish quest to empower yourself personally, and instead settle down with a single religion that bears fruit in your life and pursue it without compromises. I personally believe that Catholicism is the best outlet for this. I believe that Christianity is The Truth, because I’ve emptied myself out into it through faith and devotion, and Jesus has transformed my heart. . . And whether or not it’s “True” is of little importance.

Your confession of love for God contributes to our faith in Him. Your description of your searching with an open mind and open heart illustrates how one approaches the Divine.

I do wish to address your closing remark. I understand what you are trying to say is that the reality of God in your life transceds or is more real than any story about Him and His presence in the world.
Your statement of faith however, implies the converse and demonstrates the importance of the communicable “truth” - we are not in this alone.

I agree that the illusions/temptations of personal power, knowledge, and righteousness fall by the wayside in emptying ourselves to Christ.
This does not occur in isolation from the rest of humanity. God reaches out to His creation, so that we, through and in the Word, can enter into the same loving filial relationship with our Creator. The Beatific Vision includes all the angels and saints. The truth is in His Church, in our coming together individually and as one body, as He has called us to join with Him in eternal love.

It is all true. There is no if about it.
You see the ontological truth, which is also historical.
The Word is not only within you here and now, but in time has manifested Himself to engage us in this dialogue and bring us all to Him.

You might want to read some of what Pope Benedict has written about Jesus.
For some time I have been reading and contemplating on Christopher Collins, B]The Word made Love which discusses the Pope’s thoughts.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Bob,you really equate these bizarre encounters with heavenly messages? I am pretty sure a voice telling you a laborers work is not honorable is not from God.

As far as the dead pastor appearing to you in a vision and telling you that Catholicism is CLOSEST to the truth,well that is hooey.The keys were given to Peter and the Church holds the fullness of truth. The vision therefore was being deceptive. NOT from God

If the Church holds all the Truth, then why did Christ say “I will LEAD you into all the truth”? That implies that we don’t have the fullness of truth but are being led bit by bit.

It took quite a long time for the church to define it’s teachings on the Trinity for example.

There was a quantum shift towards Protestant Churches with Vatican II, and for that matter other faiths.

The church only moved to the vernacular with Vatican II.

There was a time when the Church had no problem with burning witches at the stake, or encouraging the state to massacre Huegnots. Now it rejects capital punishment even for murder if possible.

The issue of the contraceptive pill is an obvious bone of contention for many Catholics. Don’t tell me the majority of smaller Catholic families today are all the result of NFP.

There have been anti-Popes. How did the Church decide which one was the real one?

I’ll stick with the old pastor turning up with a message, especially since it was a topic we’d discussed at some length before he died as well. The message didn’t arrive in an intellectual or religious vacuum.

It irritates me when others are so cock sure that someone else’s experiences are of the devil. For my part, I think they weren’t. Highly judgemental in my opinion.

Oh, I have no doubt that some things I’ve experienced were demonic. But I’m equally sure that some were divine, or angelic.