God the Tempter

[Flavius_Aetius]

Can someone tell me how it is at all fair that someone that is genetically attracted by the same-sex is forced to go against their own nature in order to please God?! I mean the only way I can imagine it as a heterosexual would be if the Church told me that I had to remain chaste until I married someone of the same-sex. I mean I couldn’t imagine the discomfort I’d feel being told that my sex options were to be married to a gender I do not find arousal in.

People say that “This is there cross to bear” but that cross was strapped on them by GOD HIMSELF! In all his wisdom he decided to make people naturally inclined to sin while others were not by their own nature. Considering this is our immortal souls created by an seemingly benevolent God I find it troubling he’d let some people go through the trials of life easily while others only can reach heaven if they literally go against their own nature.

I mean I can accept suffering, but what I can’t accept is when God himself forces the suffering upon us like we were Job or something…

I don’t see omni-benevolence in this, or in the story of Job where he allows one of his angels (or fallen angels) to torture a man and destroy his life just to prove a point.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Ahem. You could say the same for those people who are ‘attracted’ to children or animals.

Or those who just have to kill someone in order to feel whole.

All these are objectively and gravely disordered.

Why do some people carry certain Crosses? That’s a legitimate question. But to use God as an excuse… really?

 

[Anthony_V]

Can someone tell me how it is at all fair that someone that is genetically attracted by the same-sex is forced to go against their own nature in order to please God?! I mean the only way I can imagine it as a heterosexual would be if the Church told me that I had to remain chaste until I married someone of the same-sex. I mean I couldn’t imagine the discomfort I’d feel being told that my sex options were to be married to a gender I do not find arousal in.

People say that “This is there cross to bear” but that cross was strapped on them by GOD HIMSELF! In all his wisdom he decided to make people naturally inclined to sin while others were not by their own nature. Considering this is our immortal souls created by an seemingly benevolent God I find it troubling he’d let some people go through the trials of life easily while others only can reach heaven if they literally go against their own nature.

I mean I can accept suffering, but what I can’t accept is when God himself forces the suffering upon us like we were Job or something…

I don’t see omni-benevolence in this, or in the story of Job where he allows one of his angels (or fallen angels) to torture a man and destroy his life just to prove a point.

You seem to miss out on both what Job says, and what God does in return at the end.

“Then Job answered the Lord and said:
I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be hindered. I have dealt with great things that I do not understand; things too wonderful for me, which I cannot know. I had heard of you by word of mouth, but now my eye has seen you. Therefore I disown what I have said, and repent in dust and ashes.” Job 42: 1-6
“Also, the Lord restored the prosperity of Job, after he had prayed for his friends; the Lord even gave to Job twice as much as he had before.” Job 42: 10

God gives us crosses as an opportunity to grow in faith. We are sinful beings, and suffering is a way that God draws us near to him. We naturally need a rock to cling to when we are swimming against the current of a raging river. The second problem with your argument is that it has a “me” personality. If someone devotes their life to God, despite being a homosexual, by practicing celibacy how many other people do you think will be in awe of God’s ability to work in his/her life? How many other people’s faith do you think that he/she will be able to restore? Surely, after Job had suffered all his ailments, his friends came back and they all loved him even more for enduring and honoring God. What God asks us to pay in sweat and blood, he will pay back double. When it boils down to it, celibacy is a great act of faith that shows society that we are not bound to “how we feel”. It is in the celibate homosexuals that we can gain great faith and understanding of God.

 

[Flavius_Aetius]

Why do some people carry certain Crosses? That’s a legitimate question. But to use God as an excuse… really?

So despite having a hand at creating us, we shouldn’t question when God makes someone think in a manner that can only lead to sin while others are allowed a normal experience with temptation coming from sources external from God?

 

[SteveGC]

Can someone tell me how it is at all fair that someone that is genetically attracted by the same-sex is forced to go against their own nature in order to please God?! I mean the only way I can imagine it as a heterosexual would be if the Church told me that I had to remain chaste until I married someone of the same-sex. I mean I couldn’t imagine the discomfort I’d feel being told that my sex options were to be married to a gender I do not find arousal in.

People say that “This is there cross to bear” but that cross was strapped on them by GOD HIMSELF! In all his wisdom he decided to make people naturally inclined to sin while others were not by their own nature. Considering this is our immortal souls created by an seemingly benevolent God I find it troubling he’d let some people go through the trials of life easily while others only can reach heaven if they literally go against their own nature.

I mean I can accept suffering, but what I can’t accept is when God himself forces the suffering upon us like we were Job or something…

I don’t see omni-benevolence in this, or in the story of Job where he allows one of his angels (or fallen angels) to torture a man and destroy his life just to prove a point.

I think you forgot that our nature is fallen. God didn’t “strap on” a homosexual inclination (if it indeed is inherent from birth - which is highly debatable) any more than he “strapped on” a child’s inclination to lie to their parents or hit their siblings. The sin of our first parents is our inheritance, and all things that you see in this world that are disordered or diseased is not in God’s design…but in man’s original rejection of it.

Peace.

 

[flower_lady]

Can someone tell me how it is at all fair that someone that is genetically attracted by the same-sex is forced to go against their own nature in order to please God?! I mean the only way I can imagine it as a heterosexual would be if the Church told me that I had to remain chaste until I married someone of the same-sex. I mean I couldn’t imagine the discomfort I’d feel being told that my sex options were to be married to a gender I do not find arousal in.

People say that “This is there cross to bear” but that cross was strapped on them by GOD HIMSELF! In all his wisdom he decided to make people naturally inclined to sin while others were not by their own nature. Considering this is our immortal souls created by an seemingly benevolent God I find it troubling he’d let some people go through the trials of life easily while others only can reach heaven if they literally go against their own nature.

I mean I can accept suffering, but what I can’t accept is when God himself forces the suffering upon us like we were Job or something…

I don’t see omni-benevolence in this, or in the story of Job where he allows one of his angels (or fallen angels) to torture a man and destroy his life just to prove a point.

But you have no idea what Heaven is like. God knows what he is doing. Job, probably is looking at you laughing, because he is in a place that exceeds the most awesome experiences that we can encounter on this earth. I’m sure getting to Heaven was well worth his pain. And are you forgetting how Jesus suffered for us? Suffering is a gift from God. Heaven is our reward for our sufferings, and trials. No pain, no gain. You need to read the whole story of Job, God gave him back everything he took from him more abundantly.

 

[Flavius_Aetius]

But you have no idea what Heaven is like. God knows what he is doing. Job, probably is looking at you laughing, because he is in a place that exceeds the most awesome experiences that we can encounter on this earth. I’m sure getting to Heaven was well worth his pain. And are you forgetting how Jesus suffered for us? Suffering is a gift from God. Heaven is our reward for our sufferings, and trials. No pain, no gain.

Ok if the reward is exactly the same then why is the playing field uneven?! I mean if this was a race then normal heterosexual people would be normal runners while those born with SSA would be a runner with twenty pound weights put around his legs.

 

[1ke]

Can someone tell me how it is at all fair that someone that is genetically attracted by the same-sex is forced to go against their own nature in order to please God?!

This is a falacious argument. It is not “their own nature” it is a *defect *of their nature, just like any other disordered desire. It is due to Original Sin.

I mean the only way I can imagine it as a heterosexual would be if the Church told me that I had to remain chaste until I married someone of the same-sex. I mean I couldn’t imagine the discomfort I’d feel being told that my sex options were to be married to a gender I do not find arousal in.

They are called to chastity in their state.

People say that “This is there cross to bear” but that cross was strapped on them by GOD HIMSELF!

No, it wasn’t.

In all his wisdom he decided to make people naturally inclined to sin while others were not by their own nature.

This is false. Same sex attraction is a defect, a disorder, not “their own nature.”

Considering this is our immortal souls created by an seemingly benevolent God I find it troubling he’d let some people go through the trials of life easily while others only can reach heaven if they literally go against their own nature.

We are all called to overcome our disordered desires.

I mean I can accept suffering, but what I can’t accept is when God himself forces the suffering upon us like we were Job or something…

He does not, you are projecting something onto God.

 

[roselily]

I read that God he himself tempts no one. our Redeemer, kind and merciful.

The Letter of
James

Trial and Temptation

12 Blessed is anyone who endures temptation. Such a one has stood the test and will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him. 13No one, when tempted, should say, ‘I am being tempted by God’; for God cannot be tempted by evil and he himself tempts no one. 14But one is tempted by one’s own desire, being lured and enticed by it; 15then, when that desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin, and that sin, when it is fully grown, gives birth to death. 16Do not be deceived, my beloved.

 

[Garyjohn2]

Ok if the reward is exactly the same then why is the playing field uneven?! I mean if this was a race then normal heterosexual people would be normal runners while those born with SSA would be a runner with twenty pound weights put around his legs.

Do you think homosexual urges is the only sin in this “race”. People that are heterosexual may have a compulsion to lie, or be predisposed to alcholism, or pedophiles, or have violent urges that make them want to KILL. If homosexuals have a 20lb weight, then some people have a 50lb weight.

We all have our shortcomings. We all have the weight of sin upon us. Those weights, if excersized properly, make us stronger. THe heavier the weight, the greater the potential for greatness!

Matthew 11:28-30
“Come to me, all you who labor and are burdened, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart; and you will find rest for your selves.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden light.”

 

[Flavius_Aetius]

Ok, I can accept Original Sin as the reason for these defects. But why would God allow some people to suffer essentially an eternal temptation while others without these defects to their nature only have to worry about temptation when it arrives in their lives?

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

So despite having a hand at creating us, we shouldn’t question when God makes someone think in a manner that can only lead to sin while others are allowed a normal experience with temptation coming from sources external from God?

Do you imagine only homosexuals can think in a manner that can only lead to sin, or are you ignoring the other examples?

 

[Garyjohn2]

Ok, I can accept Original Sin as the reason for these defects. But why would God allow some people to suffer essentially an eternal temptation while others without these defects to their nature only have to worry about temptation when it arrives in their lives?

Some people have temptations that are worse, and just as permanent.

 

[Flavius_Aetius]

Do you imagine only homosexuals can think in a manner that can only lead to sin, or are you ignoring the other examples?

Do you mean the examples you gave? If so then yes, I would like to know what the purpose of a pedophile or a sociopath is in the eyes of God.

 

[SteveGC]

Ok, I can accept Original Sin as the reason for these defects. But why would God allow some people to suffer essentially an eternal temptation while others without these defects to their nature only have to worry about temptation when it arrives in their lives?

Some (if not, many) heterosexual boys possess at a very early age (around 10 or so) a highly disordered inclination for sexual pleasure. Mine was particularly high and I’ve had to fight against it for the past 30 years. Now, I know some homosexual men who simply are inclined to the company of men, but not lustfully. The intent isn’t sex, it is companionship. Not to say sex is not involved at some point (which is why we must strive to educate them on the sinfulness of homosexual ACTS), but in my estimation, their burden (or weight as you say) is lighter than mine, who risks more in the game by giving into my inclination to lust than the homosexual who must be cautious to not allow companionship to evolve into sexual activity. But I don’t sit around complaining to God that I have a higher burden than others…nor that He implanted the temptations within me. It’s just my cross.

Peace.

 

[Garyjohn2]

Do you mean the examples you gave? If so then yes, I would like to know what the purpose of a pedophile or a sociopath is in the eyes of God.

Did you read my post? About the weights? Our goal is to overcome our temptations, and become holy. The greater the temptation that is overcome, the greater the glory given to God.

 

[Flavius_Aetius]

Ok final question from me. Where is God when we need him? Yes I hear people mention prayer helps them for long term temptations, but for the most part since temptations come in an instant no one really gets down on their knees and starts praying there and then.

So where is God this all-powerful being in the equation of men? Why worship him if he doesn’t acknowledge your presence or care if you sin or not? God always seemed like a aloof police officer. Not caring about a person even if they seem troubled until they actually commit a crime; then he’s on them in an instance to send them to prison (AKA: Hell)

 

[Garyjohn2]

Ok final question from me. Where is God when we need him? Yes I hear people mention prayer helps them for long term temptations, but for the most part since temptations come in an instant no one really gets down on their knees and starts praying there and then.

So where is God this all-powerful being in the equation of men? Why worship him if he doesn’t acknowledge your presence or care if you sin or not? God always seemed like a aloof police officer. Not caring about a person even if they seem troubled until they actually commit a crime; then he’s on them in an instance to send them to prison (AKA: Hell)

The impression you have of God is a little two dimentional. He’s not a police officer…he is the almighty! He is just as “legal” as he is merciful. As you say, when ppl mess up, they are “sent to hell.” You forgot to mention, when people succeed, they are “sent to heaven.” The problem is you are concentrating on only one aspect of God. Don’t forget, that even when ppl mess up, God is merciful.

So where is God when we need him? He is here, waiting for us. God never leaves us…it is us who leave Him. He is unyeilding and unchanging…it is we who wander away. God is within us, and all around us. He is in the people we meet and interact with every day. He is in the choices we make. He is waiting for us to return to him now, this moment, and in paradise forever.

Yes, people get down on their knees and pray the moment they are tempted. Sometimes they don’t though. Sometimes they just cry out to God in their hearts. Going to confession…admitting our faults and asking for forgiveness…and then receiving that forgiveness…is a great way to resist long-term temptations. The sacraments give us the grace we need. He cares about us, which is why these gifts have been given to us. God never poses a challenge to us that we cannot overcome in some way. He offers us everything we need in life in order to succeed spiritually, and often more. God is great, and merciful!

To be fair, I am not God, but this is my understanding, and what I was taught. Only God knows whats in our hearts, so only He can say!

 

[SteveGC]

Ok final question from me. Where is God when we need him? Yes I hear people mention prayer helps them for long term temptations, but for the most part since temptations come in an instant no one really gets down on their knees and starts praying there and then.

So where is God this all-powerful being in the equation of men? Why worship him if he doesn’t acknowledge your presence or care if you sin or not? God always seemed like a aloof police officer. Not caring about a person even if they seem troubled until they actually commit a crime; then he’s on them in an instance to send them to prison (AKA: Hell)

A long deliberated issue, this is. Two words sum it up, God’s Providence. But it always needs expounding, for obvious reasons. He works in mysterious ways of course (at the risk of frustrating you with the old cliche). And yes, He hides. He gives us just enough revelation of Himself and His plan for us to kindle and develop our faith (if we truly seek it). Of course, if He revealed Himself in His entirety, we would be overwhelmed to the nth degree and shocked to our very core. Free will (and the subsequent true love that flows from it) must be maintained. So He allows us to make our choices for good or bad. Keep reminding yourself over and over that WE ARE FALLEN. Original Sin explains much of what disturbs your ability to understand and cope with your perceived ideas of what God must be up to.

He does answer prayers. But typically not in the ways we expect Him to. In this world, both sin and righteousness of each individual effects other people we may not even know. Suffering is redemptive, for it is the way of the Cross. But it may not be our own lives where we see direct impact. But God will NOT abandon you if you truly seek Him. Emphasis on TRULY. Many people expect great things in their lives from God, but are disingenuous about their actual efforts to follow Him.

Take some time to think about how determined you are to do your part as a follower. Do you do the minimum, and yet expect the maximum from Him? No logic there.

Peace.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Do you mean the examples you gave? If so then yes, I would like to know what the purpose of a pedophile or a sociopath is in the eyes of God.

Are you saying that you do not know the purpose of a homosexual in the eyes of God?