God, time travel, and alternative realities

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generalyogibear

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We know God can go forward in time and see the future with himself included in that same future. For example, when Jesus said concerning taxation, “give to Caesar what is Caesars” God must of known the long term effects of that passage. My point is everything must of been pre-planned which might mean there could of been a version of reality which Jesus didn’t say that and God saw the long term ramifications of Jesus not saying that and went back in time and had Jesus say that. How do we know we are not living in an alternative reality right now. And if we are living in an alternative reality dosen’t this cheapen our lives a little since we are not the final version God wants?
My heart tells me we are the final version but my brain can’t seem to solve this issue.
The only real answer I can come up with is that since God is perfect God cannot make mistakes (such as having to go back in time to fix something). My only solution to this problem would be that God is timeless and can see both present and future at the same time and being able to read every man’s hearts and minds God can make a determination about the future without having to go back and fix something.
Any thoughts?
 
generalyogibear said:
We know God can go forward in time and see the future with himself included in that same future. For example, when Jesus said concerning taxation, “give to Caesar what is Caesars”

God must of known the long term effects of that passage. My point is everything must of been pre-planned which might mean there could of been a version of reality which Jesus didn’t say that and God saw the long term ramifications of Jesus not saying that and went back in time and had Jesus say that.

How do we know we are not living in an alternative reality right now. And if we are living in an alternative reality dosen’t this cheapen our lives a little since we are not the final version God wants?

My heart tells me we are the final version but my brain can’t seem to solve this issue.

The only real answer I can come up with is that since God is perfect God cannot make mistakes (such as having to go back in time to fix something).

My only solution to this problem would be that God is timeless and can see both present and future at the same time and being able to read every man’s hearts and minds God can make a determination about the future without having to go back and fix something.

Any thoughts?
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***Your initial premise seems to be in error.

God cannot go back in time or forward in time.

Time is a creation of God and He exists outside of time in an eternal, perpetual Now.

From his position, everything that we would say is past, present and future is visible to Him in the same instant, visible to Him now.***
 
Then how do you explain Bible prophecy?
Such as Jesus saying, “In the last days there will be wars and rumors of wars…etc.”
 
generalyogibear said:
Then how do you explain Bible prophecy?
Such as Jesus saying, “In the last days there will be wars and rumors of wars…etc.”
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In this God Incarnate was speaking through His human nature, describing how things would look from OUR perspective.

As far as alternative realities and universes, God’s word teaches us how to live in THIS universe and prepare us for the World to Come, when this (and for all I know) other universes will come to a screeching halt.
 
My favorite example of describing God outside the realms of ‘time’ as we know it is this: imagine a long squiggly (but not intersecting) line on a sheet of paper. On that paper is the history, present, and future of all of God’s creations. God is not part of the paper–He is the one who is holding it in His hands. The only time God has ever entered into our time has been when Christ became man.
 
Mumbles140 said:
My favorite example of describing God outside the realms of ‘time’ as we know it is this: imagine a long squiggly (but not intersecting) line on a sheet of paper. On that paper is the history, present, and future of all of God’s creations. God is not part of the paper–He is the one who is holding it in His hands. The only time God has ever entered into our time has been when Christ became man.
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Interesting. I love this explanation. Thanks.
 
Try to find a copy of Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions by the by the 19th century English schoolmaster Edwin A. Abbott. One of my favorite reads back in high school. And no, that wasn’t in the 19th century! 😃
It has probably disappeared from the library shelves because it is so politically incorrect in it’s treatment of women among other things but it’s a great read. You might find a digital copy on-line for free. I suspect any copyright would have long since expired. Funny how a satirical novel by a mathematician turned liberal theologian can so clearly demonstrate the infinite to finite beings.
 
pyro_alchemist said:
Try to find a copy of Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions by the by the 19th century English schoolmaster Edwin A. Abbott.
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Is that the one about the points, and then the lines, and then the planes, then 3-dimensional shapes? I know I read Flatland in middle school and I cannot remember if this is the book I’m thinking of or if it’s another mathematical novel.
 
Mumbles140 said:
Is that the one about the points, and then the lines, and then the planes, then 3-dimensional shapes? I know I read Flatland in middle school and I cannot remember if this is the book I’m thinking of or if it’s another mathematical novel.
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That’s the one. By the way you can read it on-line for free here.
Good luck! I never have been able to read a book on-line without getting a bad case of the blurry eyes.
 
pyro_alchemist said:
That’s the one. By the way you can read it on-line for free here.
Good luck! I never have been able to read a book on-line without getting a bad case of the blurry eyes.
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Thank you very much, pyro!

And I would have to disagree with you, geometer. Philosophers provide the insight that have guided the works of scientists and even theologians. Scientists themselves can explain the ‘what’ and the ‘how’ (sometimes), but they can never explain the metaphysical ‘why’. Theologians, however, through the Scriptures and Divine Revelation, have been able to reveal to us certain things about reality.

Unfortunately, we will never have the capacity to understand it until we are freed from our bodies and God reveals His holy mysteries to us when we (hopefully) enter the Gates of the Kingdom of Heaven.
 
What about extraterrestrials? Has anyone written about the theological implications if they exist? Do they need salvation? If so, did Jesus, at various times, come down from heaven and go to their planets to die for their sins, or does his death on earth give them salvation too? If it does, and he never went to their planets, how do they know about Him and the Father?
 
sedonaman said:
What about extraterrestrials? Has anyone written about the theological implications if they exist? Do they need salvation? If so, did Jesus, at various times, come down from heaven and go to their planets to die for their sins, or does his death on earth give them salvation too? If it does, and he never went to their planets, how do they know about Him and the Father?
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Read the Space Trilogy (Out of the Silent Planet, Peleandra, and That Hideous Strength) by C.S. Lewis–a great allegorical series that also addresses the issue of extra-terrestrials, intelligent (i.e. free will and reason) beings, and salvation.
 
Listen, children. I applaud you all for tackling such an intriguing subject as time travel and alternate realities with such sobriety. Consider this: If God moved back and forth in time and corrected mistakes that created parallel worlds (String Theory) for Mankind; let’s say ten of them (11-?), or, i.e., one of the numerous variables Prof. Stephen Hawking postulates – then the first obvious correction should have been (would have been) preventing Eve from biting the apple, and inviting Adam to a “snake barbecue.”

Say what!? :>) All kidding aside. Had the error of Original Sin been prevented God would not have had to become the Son of Man and we would not now have any need for Jesus as our Personal Saviour. Does anyone think there is one or more alternate realities out there where Jesus is not Lord of Lords and King of Kings? No. . .God is God of all, and Jesus is at His side. When God said: “Let there be light!” and the “Big Bang” occurred, it was the beginning of all “string universes” with God as the sovereign of each and every one. His first created beings were the 9 ranks of angels. Angels were created to watch over Mankind. Mankind was created beneath the angels, but being made in God’s image (angels were not) they would one day rise above (Jesus) angels and be held in higher esteem by God. No, God does NOT correct errors nor travel thru time looking for errors to correct. Whatever happens happens once and once only. God looks ahead and sees a possible serious calamity on the way and tells His prophets to warn us–so that we may pray and have the calamity mitigated (Jonah, as case in point) thru prayer. The calamity once prevented before it occurred, is therefore wiped from the timeline forever and NO parallel universe need be hatched. God does not have to correct errors, as He exists above and beyond time and space. Consider this, God made lemons–only as a means to make lemonade.

God bless,

Evesezrah
 
generalyogibear said:
We know God can go forward in time and see the future with himself included in that same future. For example, when Jesus said concerning taxation, “give to Caesar what is Caesars” God must of known the long term effects of that passage. My point is everything must of been pre-planned which might mean there could of been a version of reality which Jesus didn’t say that and God saw the long term ramifications of Jesus not saying that and went back in time and had Jesus say that. How do we know we are not living in an alternative reality right now. And if we are living in an alternative reality dosen’t this cheapen our lives a little since we are not the final version God wants?
My heart tells me we are the final version but my brain can’t seem to solve this issue.
The only real answer I can come up with is that since God is perfect God cannot make mistakes (such as having to go back in time to fix something). My only solution to this problem would be that God is timeless and can see both present and future at the same time and being able to read every man’s hearts and minds God can make a determination about the future without having to go back and fix something.
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
You should check into some of Peter Kreeft’s books. He has one book about Einstein and the theory of everything. He also did a book about “Heaven: the Heart’s Deepest Longing.” He talks about a fourth dimension.
 
I recall being taught at an RCIA meeting (or some similar sort of meeting), that God could see the past and the present, and being omnscient knew everything that has ever happened and everything that is currently happening, but that God could not see the future, or at least not see the future exactly, because if he could, that would surely mean that some people are predestined to eternal damnation.
 
Thomas_Dowd said:
I recall being taught at an RCIA meeting (or some similar sort of meeting), that God could see the past and the present, and being omnscient knew everything that has ever happened and everything that is currently happening, but that God could not see the future, or at least not see the future exactly, because if he could, that would surely mean that some people are predestined to eternal damnation.
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I have never been taught that God could not see the specifics of the future (and I don’t know whether that is the case or not), but I would like to talk about the possibility of it and a defense against the ‘predestined’ argument.

In my beliefs, God is outside of time (as I mentioned previously), at least in the sense that we understand time. Just because God can see the future and know all that will happen does not mean that we are predestined for salvation or damnation. The fact is that we are all given free will and our choices dictate whether we are saved by the grace of God or we condemn ourselves to Hell. I believe this to be completely independent of God’s knowing what will happen. A common argument against this is that our prayers are then worthless if God already knows, but if he knows we will pray for certain causes, then that is all part of the plan as well.

This differs greatly from the Protestant belief that people have no say whether they are saved or freed. They took (what I believe to be) a proper Catholic teaching and altered it so the idea was perverted. A woman (I’m drawing a blank on her name) in the Rhode Island Colony stated that if each person was damned or saved, and had no say either way, than they should live however they choose because it was out of human hands. She was consequently banished from the colony and the idea of “Visible Saints” was established to encourage people to live a good life, because that could ‘confirm’ their ‘saved’ status.
 
I honestly think God can see all the possible outcomes for each set of choices which everyone makes which adds up to their salvation or damnation. He’s the one who can read the chess board of life much better than we can since He’s the master Who can see all the moves from the opening to the endgame…
 
Matrix_Refugee said:
I honestly think God can see all the possible outcomes for each set of choices which everyone makes which adds up to their salvation or damnation. He’s the one who can read the chess board of life much better than we can since He’s the master Who can see all the moves from the opening to the endgame…
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A Walker Percy - esque “bad Catholic?” And what might that be?
 
sedonaman said:
What about extraterrestrials? Has anyone written about the theological implications if they exist? Do they need salvation? If so, did Jesus, at various times, come down from heaven and go to their planets to die for their sins, or does his death on earth give them salvation too? If it does, and he never went to their planets, how do they know about Him and the Father?
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If aliens exist, they wouldn’t need baptism any more than an octopus does. 👍
 
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