God wakes you up to pray at night for someone?

[water]

My main point of this post: If my sister believes God wakes her up in the middle of the night to pray for a particular reason, why can’t she believe God can do much more with the Saints in Heaven to interceed for us?

My sister is not a Catholic and does not believe in the communion/intercession of the Saints. I remember she told me that sometimes she felt an urge in the middle of the night while sleeping that she needed to get up and pray for a particular person. She believed that was what God wanted her to do. So she prayed wholeheartedly.

Why can’t she believe God can do much more with those in Heaven? They don’t need to sleep like my sister; surely, God will give them lots of assignments

 

[PaulDupre]

Excellent point.

Paul

 

[zerinus]

My main point of this post: If my sister believes God wakes her up in the middle of the night to pray for a particular reason, why can’t she believe God can do much more with the Saints in Heaven to interceed for us?

My sister is not a Catholic and does not believe in the communion/intercession of the Saints. I remember she told me that sometimes she felt an urge in the middle of the night while sleeping that she needed to get up and pray for a particular person. She believed that was what God wanted her to do. So she prayed wholeheartedly.

Why can’t she believe God can do much more with those in Heaven? They don’t need to sleep like my sister; surely, God will give them lots of assignments

It is not a question of what God “can” or “cannot” do. It is a question of what He does do; and what He has commanded and expects of us to do and not do. Praying to anyone other than the Deity, for any purpose, is contrary to the whole order of things that God has established in Scripture. Jesus never commanded it; neither is it written anywhere in the Old Testament that that is what God expects us to do.

zerinus

 

[dosdog]

It is not a question of what God “can” or “cannot” do. It is a question of what He does do; and what He has commanded and expects of us to do and not do. Praying to anyone other than the Deity, for any purpose, is contrary to the whole order of things that God has established in Scripture. Jesus never commanded it; neither is it written anywhere in the Old Testament that that is what God expects us to do.

zerinus

Book Of Genesis Chapter 48 16 The angel that delivereth me from all evils, bless these boys: and let my name be called upon them, and the names of my fathers Abraham, and Isaac, and may they grow into a multitude upon the earth.

Z dont you ever get tired of being wrong? Time for your 10000 mile Spirit checkup

 

[zerinus]

Book Of Genesis Chapter 48 16 The angel that delivereth me from all evils, bless these boys: and let my name be called upon them, and the names of my fathers Abraham, and Isaac, and may they grow into a multitude upon the earth.

How does that disprove what I had said? Jacob is praying to God, not to the angel. He is invoking God’s blessings, including His angelic protection, for the two sons of Joseph. He is not praying to the angel. The word angel in this context in fact refers to Jehovah Himself. See Genesis 22:11–12, 15–17; Exodus 3:2–6.

zerinus

 

[dosdog]

How does that disprove what I had said? Jacob is praying to God, not to the angel. He is invoking God’s blessings, including His angelic protection, for the two sons of Joseph. He is not praying to the angel. The word angel in this context in fact refers to Jehovah Himself. See Genesis 22:11–12, 15–17; Exodus 3:2–6.

zerinus

Guardian angels Tobit 12:12; Mt 18:10; Acts 12:11; 15
Unity of all Christians Jn 15:5; Rom 12:4; 1Cor 6:12-20; 10:17; 12:4-27; Eph 2:19; 5:30; Col 1:18; 24; 2:19; 3:15
Praying for each other Jer 15:1; Acts 12:5; Rom 15:30; 2Cor 13:7; Eph 6:18; Col 4:3 1Thess 5:25; 2Thess 3:1; Heb 13:18; Jas 5:16
Intercession of saints Tobit 12:12; 2Mac 15:14; Rev 5:8; 8:4
We are surrounded by saints Heb 12:1
Saints now in heaven 1Thess 3:13; Heb 11:40; 12:23; 1Pet 3:19; Rev 6:9
Miracles through relics Acts 5:15; 19:11-12
All called to be saints Eph 1:4-6; 12; 14

 

[zerinus]

Guardian angels Tobit 12:12; Mt 18:10; Acts 12:11; 15
Unity of all Christians Jn 15:5; Rom 12:4; 1Cor 6:12-20; 10:17; 12:4-27; Eph 2:19; 5:30; Col 1:18; 24; 2:19; 3:15
Praying for each other Jer 15:1; Acts 12:5; Rom 15:30; 2Cor 13:7; Eph 6:18; Col 4:3 1Thess 5:25; 2Thess 3:1; Heb 13:18; Jas 5:16
Intercession of saints Tobit 12:12; 2Mac 15:14; Rev 5:8; 8:4
We are surrounded by saints Heb 12:1
Saints now in heaven 1Thess 3:13; Heb 11:40; 12:23; 1Pet 3:19; Rev 6:9
Miracles through relics Acts 5:15; 19:11-12
All called to be saints Eph 1:4-6; 12; 14

None of these tell us that we should pray to saints.

zerinus

 

[dosdog]

None of these tell us that we should pray to saints.

zerinus

(Text from ANF, vol. 8.)The Account of St. John the Theologian of the Dormition of the Holy Mother of God
And the Lord remained beside her, saying: Behold, from the present time thy precious body will be transferred to paradise, and thy holy soul to the heavens to the treasures of my Father in exceeding brightness, where there is peace and joy of the holy angels,-and other things besides. And when she had thus prayed, the Lord said to His mother: Let thy heart rejoice and be glad; for every favour and every gift has been given to thee from my Father in heaven, and from me, and from the Holy Spirit: every soul that calls upon thy name shall not be ashamed, but shall find mercy, and comfort, and support, and confidence, both in the world that now is, and in that which is to come, in the presence of my Father in the heavens

And with the departure of her blameless soul the place was filled with perfume and ineffable light; and, behold, a voice out of the heaven was heard, saying: Blessed art thou among women. And Peter, and I John, and Paul, and Thomas, ran and wrapped up her precious feet for the consecration; and the twelve apostles put her precious and holy body upon a couch, and carried it. And, behold, while they were carrying her, a certain well-born Hebrew, Jephonias by name, running against the body

And Jephonias himself, when Peter ordered him, that the wonderful things of God might be showed forth, stood up behind the couch, and cried out: Holy Mary, who broughtest forth Christ who is God, have mercy upon me. And Peter turned and said to him: In the name of Him who was born of her, thy hands which have been taken away from thee, will be fixed on again. And immediately, at the word of Peter, the hands hanging by the couch of the Lady came, and were fixed on Jephonias. And he believed, and glorified Christ, God who had been born of her.
198.62.75.5/www1/ofm/san/TSmarymn.html

 

[zerinus]

(Text from ANF, vol. 8.)The Account of St. John the Theologian of the Dormition of the Holy Mother of God
And the Lord remained beside her, saying: Behold, from the present time thy precious body will be transferred to paradise, and thy holy soul to the heavens to the treasures of my Father in exceeding brightness, where there is peace and joy of the holy angels,-and other things besides. And when she had thus prayed, the Lord said to His mother: Let thy heart rejoice and be glad; for every favour and every gift has been given to thee from my Father in heaven, and from me, and from the Holy Spirit: every soul that calls upon thy name shall not be ashamed, but shall find mercy, and comfort, and support, and confidence, both in the world that now is, and in that which is to come, in the presence of my Father in the heavens

And with the departure of her blameless soul the place was filled with perfume and ineffable light; and, behold, a voice out of the heaven was heard, saying: Blessed art thou among women. And Peter, and I John, and Paul, and Thomas, ran and wrapped up her precious feet for the consecration; and the twelve apostles put her precious and holy body upon a couch, and carried it. And, behold, while they were carrying her, a certain well-born Hebrew, Jephonias by name, running against the body

And Jephonias himself, when Peter ordered him, that the wonderful things of God might be showed forth, stood up behind the couch, and cried out: Holy Mary, who broughtest forth Christ who is God, have mercy upon me. And Peter turned and said to him: In the name of Him who was born of her, thy hands which have been taken away from thee, will be fixed on again. And immediately, at the word of Peter, the hands hanging by the couch of the Lady came, and were fixed on Jephonias. And he believed, and glorified Christ, God who had been born of her.
198.62.75.5/www1/ofm/san/TSmarymn.html

That means nothing to me. I only go by what God has revealed in Holy Scripture; not by the saints. Saints telling us pray to saints does not cut it for me.

zerinus

 

[dosdog]

That means nothing to me. I only go by what God has revealed in Holy Scripture; not by the saints. Saints telling us pray to saints does not cut it for me.

zerinus

Ditto on The BOM

Prove Mormonism usintg “The Bible Only”

 

[zerinus]

Ditto on The BOM

That may be so; but it is irrelevant to what we are talking about here. Praying to Saints is unscriptural and unbiblical, regardless of whether the BOM is true or not. You don’t have to believe in the Book of Mormon to know that praying to Saints is contrary to the commandments of God.

zerinus

 

[dosdog]

That may be so; but it is irrelevant to what we are talking about here. Praying to Saints is unscriptural and unbiblical, regardless of whether the BOM is true or not. You don’t have to believe in the Book of Mormon to know that praying to Saints is contrary to the commandments of God.

zerinus

Revelation 8:3 And another angel came, and stood before the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given to him much incense, that he should offer of the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar, which is before the throne of God.

 

[zerinus]

Revelation 8:3 And another angel came, and stood before the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given to him much incense, that he should offer of the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar, which is before the throne of God.

Yes, somebody else brought that up a couple of months ago, and I replied to it then. The answer is simple. The Book of Revelation is highly symbolic. It is written is a very symbolic and allegorical language. I like the KJV version better. It reads: “And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.” In this verse the incense symbolizes the prayers of the saints (meaning the saints who live on earth). The word saint here simply means church members. In those days all church members were called saints (at they are in the LDS Church today). It does not mean that the prayers of saints literally go into vials in the hand of angels and offered up to God.

zerinus

 

[dosdog]

Yes, somebody else brought that up a couple of months ago, and I replied to it then. The answer is simple. The Book of Revelation is highly symbolic. It is written is a very symbolic and allegorical language. I like the KJV version better. It reads: “And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.” In this verse the incense symbolizes the prayers of the saints (meaning the saints who live on earth). The word saint here simply means church members. In those days all church members were called saints (at they are in the LDS Church today). It does not mean that the prayers of saints literally go into vials in the hand of angels and offered up to God.

zerinus

Hear it, all ye ends of the world; for God has told me so. The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is coequal [coeternal] with God himself. I know that my testimony is true. There never was a time when there were not spirits; for they are coequal [coeternal] with our Father in heaven. I might with boldness proclaim from the housetops that God never had the power to create the spirit of man at all. God himself could not create himself…Knowledge saves a man; and in the world of spirits no man can be exalted but by knowledge
The King Follet Sermon By President Joseph Smith, Sunday, April 7, 1844. History of the Church, Volume 6, page 302.

 

[zerinus]

Hear it, all ye ends of the world; for God has told me so. The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is coequal [coeternal] with God himself. I know that my testimony is true. There never was a time when there were not spirits; for they are coequal [coeternal] with our Father in heaven. I might with boldness proclaim from the housetops that God never had the power to create the spirit of man at all. God himself could not create himself…Knowledge saves a man; and in the world of spirits no man can be exalted but by knowledge
The King Follet Sermon By President Joseph Smith, Sunday, April 7, 1844. History of the Church, Volume 6, page 302.

Everybody knows now how you debate. You do not have the slightest interest in knowing, establishing, or determining the truth. Nothing further need be said. Have a nice day.

zerinus

 

[dosdog]

Everybody knows now how you debate. You do not have the slightest interest in knowing, establishing, or determining the truth. Nothing further need be said. Have a nice day.

zerinus

Early writings on Invocation of Saints
earlychurchfathers.org/belief.php?id=9
Hermas the Shepard 80a.d/ Hermas The Shepherd 3:5:4 -]

[The Shepherd said:] ‘But those who are weak and slothful in prayer, hesitate to ask anything from the Lord; but the Lord is full of compassion, and gives without fail to all who ask him. But you, [Hermas,] having been strengthened by the holy angel [you saw], and having obtained from him such intercession, and not being slothful, why do not you ask of the Lord understanding, and receive it from him?’

Pilgrimage to Tombs of Jewish Saints (Hiloulot)
The main religious purpose of the hiloula is to pray for a good life and the resolution of problems. Jews light candles, touch the memorial stone, and pray at the tomb of the saint.
rickgold.home.mindspring.com/pilgrimage_to_tombs_of_jewish_sa.htm

PS Read My Blog
moronismusings.blogspot.com/

 

[zerinus]

Early writings on Invocation of Saints
earlychurchfathers.org/belief.php?id=9
Hermas the Shepard 80a.d/ Hermas The Shepherd 3:5:4 -]

[The Shepherd said:] ‘But those who are weak and slothful in prayer, hesitate to ask anything from the Lord; but the Lord is full of compassion, and gives without fail to all who ask him. But you, [Hermas,] having been strengthened by the holy angel [you saw], and having obtained from him such intercession, and not being slothful, why do not you ask of the Lord understanding, and receive it from him?’

PS Read My Blog
moronismusings.blogspot.com/

I told you before, I only go by what God has revealed. Saints telling me to pray to saints does not cut it with me.

zerinus

 

[dosdog]

I told you before, I only go by what God has revealed. Saints telling me to pray to saints does not cut it with me.

zerinus

That is why you are always wrong and cannot call yourself Christian

 

[ProdigalSun]

Nice work Dosdog, all we can really do is show them… they are the ones that need to open then hearts and minds.

Keep up the good wok!

Peace!

 

[dessert]

My main point of this post: If my sister believes God wakes her up in the middle of the night to pray for a particular reason, why can’t she believe God can do much more with the Saints in Heaven to interceed for us?

My sister is not a Catholic and does not believe in the communion/intercession of the Saints. I remember she told me that sometimes she felt an urge in the middle of the night while sleeping that she needed to get up and pray for a particular person. She believed that was what God wanted her to do. So she prayed wholeheartedly.

Why can’t she believe God can do much more with those in Heaven? They don’t need to sleep like my sister; surely, God will give them lots of assignments

Tell your sister this is more than an urge. I have heard many people refer to this same way even ministers and very holy people or they call it a word of knowledge. That sounds so clinical. ugh

I don’t mean it doesn’t have meaning for her, but prayer goes much closer to us and uses all the saints and angels to communicate.
Sometimes I think they treat God like the man in the bubble like he i somewhere we can’t touch.

God is very personable not like a short wave radio transmission come in come in I am not sure I am picking you up God.

Tell her to think of all the saints as our links like on the computer but instant links and to use them we must be going through the right channels.
It was one of those links that woke her up not an urge, like going to the bathroom. Not her own physical urge.
And those links were people at one time like you and me and her are now.
And Mary, so many like to put her on a shelf I did when I was not tuned in to my Catholic faith and way of prayer, then I got linked up. Speaking the names of the beloved as Jesus even called them, by name Peter, John, friends, sons, sheep, daughters, brothers, sisters Mother(woman) and Father.
God bless and keep praying
D.