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Kristine1957
Guest
You do NOT go by the HOLY SCRIPTURES You go by The Book of Mormon! That is NOT Holy scriptures!
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Steve40
Guest
I’ll have to remember that and start praying for someone when I am woken up in th middle of the night too. It can’t hurt. I heard a good suggestion once and I practice this one also. I pray for wrong numbers. Whenever I get a wrong number call on the phone, I ask them, Do you need prayer? and say I pray for wrong numbers. Sometimes they say no thanks sorry and hang up in which case I pray for them and the person they were asking for anyway, but sometimes they say yes and thankyou. Not that I need thanks but sometimes we all need to know that people are praying for us.
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danonwaveland
Guest
Good idea about the wrong phone numbers.
When I wake up in the middle of the night, I say a short prayer for “whomever is going through a difficult time this night or for whomever is going to meet the Lord this night.” Hopefully, when it will be my turn, someone will wake up in the middle of the night or pause during the day to put in a good word with the Lord for me.
By the way, thank you to all the people on these forums who advance their positions in ways that are civil and glorify our Lord! Most are enjoyable and educational.
When I wake up in the middle of the night, I say a short prayer for “whomever is going through a difficult time this night or for whomever is going to meet the Lord this night.” Hopefully, when it will be my turn, someone will wake up in the middle of the night or pause during the day to put in a good word with the Lord for me.
By the way, thank you to all the people on these forums who advance their positions in ways that are civil and glorify our Lord! Most are enjoyable and educational.
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zerocrossing
Guest
Catholic pray THROUGH, not TO, saints. When Catholics ask for a saint’s intercession (as I assume you would ask for the intercession of your friends of faith), the Catholic IS praying to God, not to the saint. Asking saints to pray for us is no different than asking your friends to pray… except that the saints are in the presence of God and are the best intercessors available. I mean, they are SERIOUS prayer warriors.
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zerinus
Guest
First of all that is not true. They literally pray to the “Saint,” even if that means asking them to “intercede” for them. Secondly, where does it say anywhere in the scriptures that we should pray to God through anybody or anything? God isn’t deaf, that He should need us to pray to Him through anything. I have discussed this subject at greater length in this post.
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zerocrossing
Guest
There is a huge difference between asking a request of a friend and giving the honor due to God alone. If I ask a saint to pray for me, I am not praying TO the saint. I am asking for prayer just as I would ask any other friend for prayer. Catholics believe that the saints are alive - eternally alive - not dead, and that they are still participants in the life of the Church. To Protestants, saints are just dead people who are narcissistically consumed with enjoying the presence of God.
Of course God is not deaf. But God certainly allows people to pray for others. You show me in scripture where God tells members of the Church not to intercede for other members of the Church. That is exactly what asking the saints for prayer is… getting intercessory prayer support from other members of the Church. The Church is comprised not only of those of us in the mortal state but also of the angels and the saints. The vision of heaven in Revelation makes it abundantly clear that the Church extends into eternity.
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BLUEMOON74
Guest
Wow this is interesting. I wish things like this happened to me. I wish I could know when God was directly talking to me or wanted me to wake up and do something. If I wake up in the middle of the night it is usually bc I have anxiety or a nightmare. Aaah such is my life…
My main point of this post: If my sister believes God wakes her up in the middle of the night to pray for a particular reason, why can’t she believe God can do much more with the Saints in Heaven to interceed for us?
My sister is not a Catholic and does not believe in the communion/intercession of the Saints. I remember she told me that sometimes she felt an urge in the middle of the night while sleeping that she needed to get up and pray for a particular person. She believed that was what God wanted her to do. So she prayed wholeheartedly.
Why can’t she believe God can do much more with those in Heaven? They don’t need to sleep like my sister; surely, God will give them lots of assignments
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The_Truthinator
Guest
Let me first say that I am somewhat impressed by your cool-headedness in conversation as opposed to some of my other brothers and sisters who are not quite as graced in this area. Also, I feel obliged to tell you that at any given point in time you can simply tell your antagonizers that they are just wretched Catholics destined for damnation and such… Heck, I’m a Catholic and I sometimes feel like doing it!
Anyhoo…Back on topic. Always a cool discussion (so long as it doesn’t turn into an argument)… As a former Protestant (yup, back in da’ day… about a few months ago… lol) I totally get where you’re coming from.
Where I come from now though is, obviously, a tad bit different. IF the passages in Revelation *are *really dealing with saints in heaven (and in context I think it becomes a little clearer that they are), then the conclusion is inevitable: The saints are both aware of me and my prayers and are also acting, even without my own consent, as secondary mediators, sending my prayers to Christ, THE Mediator. Even if not, I think passages such as the one in Matthew are quite convincing even alone: “See that you despise not one of these little ones: for I say to you, that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.” (Matt. 18:10)
Who are “their angels” that, apparently, intercede for them? Guardian angels, maybe? I think it must be so.
A similar thought seems to be expressed in Acts: “And as soon as [the woman] [recognized] Peter’s voice, she opened not the gate for joy, but running in she told that Peter stood before the gate. But they said to her: Thou art mad. But she affirmed that it was so. Then said they: It is his angel.” (Acts 12:14-15) If we encourage a belief in guardian angels (a commonly held notion in early Christendom, and also in modern-day Christianity), then we are faced with this question: If indeed we each have an angel, a guardian, appointed by God to protect, watch, and intercede for us, then it stands that they must be aware of us and all our circumstances, our words, even the prayers of our hearts. If they are so in tune with us, then what if I said, “Thank you” to my angel, or asked him to watch over me in a specific area, etc.–would he not hear? Were I to make some other request, knowing his appointment by God, would I be in folly?
That is my line of thinking. There are others, to be sure, and better, most definitely.
But I am interested in your thoughts on the subject, as such a diversity of views are represented in a productive dialogue. Although I was a little disappointed concerning your post on the Mormon FAQ, in making prayer akin to worship. To “pray” to someone is taken from archaic English, and is (because of modern-day connotations surrounding the term) a bit misleading. Literally, to “pray” means to ask. So then, we ASK those in heaven (just like I’m sure you do with those on earth) to intercede for us. Part of the Communion that exists within Christendom is being able to turn to our brothers and sisters for help in times of distress. That support from one another is a characteristic of any good family. We’re not going to them instead of God; we’re just admitting that we need someone to pray for us and asking them to be that person. After all, “the continual prayer of a just man availeth much.” (Jas. 5:16) Some people may set aside minutes (even an hour in rare cases) to pray for us, but the saints pray night and day: that’s “continual prayer.” And who is more “just” than the one that sees God “as he is” (1 Jn 3:2), face-to-face–than those who have been “made perfect” (Heb. 12:23)?
I’m not out to force my opinion or my beliefs on anybody, but that’s my reasoning, and I’m always interested in hearing others’. Protestants advocate sola Scriptura, and because of this unanimously reject the Intercession of the Saints. Beginning with their presupposition, that is understandable. I assume Mormonism has a similar principle from what you’ve said (maybe not, I don’t know). I admire your attempts to learn about the Catholic faith as well as to share the LDS’s with us, as well. Keep it up, no matter what persecutions you may run into!
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Kitty_Chan
Guest
Just as a note, this bits just a tad harsh and completely judgemental.
I realise its probably lost in the rest of the discussion about asking for prayer for problems of this earth and helping our fellow man and strive to improve ourselves in the eyes of God.
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cruisin
Guest
I can’t argue with that analogy.
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