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Flavius_Aetius

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Why do we give any kind of thanks to God? We’re placed on a planet filled with natural evils that will make us suffer even if we’ve done no wrong. Our very bodies are imperfect and foul in nature, run by hormones strong enough to even overpower our ability to think rationally and sentiently. Every day probably hundreds of thousands of women have natural abortions whether its through development or when the fetus is still an embryo. the very act of childbirth is high risk for fatality when done without medical technology.

I never understood how gnostics could believe what they did in the past but now it seems a lot more believable than this belief that an all good God would prefer that we freely be allowed to rape and murder so long as we have free will.

I have great doubt that God exists, and even more so that he’d be a being worth worshiping; with contradicting attitudes from the Old to New Testament, and total reclusiveness for the last 2000 years.

I can already expect the text that Jesus died for my sins, but even that has me thinking. If he was part divine then what kind of sacrifice was this? He needed not fear death, he was God, if he had a divine part he would know of his own ressurection. That leaves the only sacrifice being that of scourging and being nailed to a cross which I’m sure thousands upon millions of other human beings have felt either the same treatment or worse.

I’m reaching a breaking point; it’s come to where I don’t even feel comfort in those moments when I feel there is a God.
 
It has to be this way, or we would not be rational creatures, but robots.

God loves us so much, that he gives me free will. And you. And Adolf Hitler.

The first 2 everyone is happy with (well, maybe not my wife 😃 ), the last one most are very unhappy with (me included).

But you can’t have it both ways. If God stamped out every evil person, or “re-programmed” him. then we would all just be “playing at life”.

Because all of us…all of us, would probably need to be reprogrammed every single day.

This argument is often made (not just by you, and I am in no way picking on you for making it). But it misses the point. Life here is wonderful, but it is only an eyeblink of our real life-which is eternal. So God gives us a wonderful eternity. We just have to co-operate with His true will while we are here. Our time here (as a race) is 1 second. Eternity is eons (well, actually infinite, but you get my meaning).

Keep your eye on the Prize. 🙂
 
Maybe this won’t mean anything to you, but this time of darkness is an opportunity to truly express your love for God. You see no benefit on your part or any motivation to believe and love God except your own will. “God, I don’t understand anything about why the world is so full of evil or why you do what you do, or even if you exist, but I still will to believe in you. I still want to love you.”

Try reading Isaiah 52:13 - 53:12.
 
Flavius_Aetius said:
I have great doubt that God exists, and even more so that he’d be a being worth worshiping; with contradicting attitudes from the Old to New Testament, and total reclusiveness for the last 2000 years.
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This bit is easily salved, though I can’t find my favorite link. This will have to do. In short, God always acts in the following manner in exercising Old Testament judgement:
  • Fair Warning. Never does God come out of the blue and utterly destroy a city.
  • Innocents Spared. Every time, the good and righteous are spared. Noah, Lot, etc.
There are at least four bullet points on my favorite site, but I can’t remember them. Specifically, I do remember that God less often destroys the unrighteous or the disobedient — more often, the punished are spared death but rather exiled, i.e. Adam and Eve, Cain, Moses by seeing the Promised Land, etc.

Hope this helps, albeit incrementally.
 
Flavius_Aetius said:
Why do we give any kind of thanks to God?
It is the reason for our existence, to know, love and serve GOD, and in so doing to give HIM thanks in all things.

We’re placed on a planet filled with natural evils that will make us suffer even if we’ve done no wrong.
GOD’s “providence” surrounds all our lives, and HE tests us each differently. HE turns all evil for good and although we may not understand we must walk in HIS faith, not in our sight

Our very bodies are imperfect and foul in nature, run by hormones strong enough to even overpower our ability to think rationally and sentiently.
We are “wonderfully and beautifully made”, it was the sin of Adam/Eve which turned our bodies against us. GOD does not “make” bad or imperfect things.

Every day probably hundreds of thousands of women have natural abortions whether its through development or when the fetus is still an embryo.
And satan dances with our polititians in celebration thereof, and all those who have “voted” for this evil, shall answer to GOD. But even the lady who was the woman for which the infamous law suit “Roe vs Wade” was initiated, has since renounced abortion and has turned her heart to GOD. GOD works in mysterious ways, and HE turns evil to good.

the very act of childbirth is high risk for fatality when done without medical technology.
That childbirth shall be in pain and suffering is found in the book of Genesis and again rests with the sin of Adam and Eve. Pain and suffering in childbirth was not GOD’s design.

I never understood how gnostics could believe what they did in the past but now it seems a lot more believable than this belief that an all good God would prefer that we freely be allowed to rape and murder so long as we have free will.
We are not “allowed” to rape and murder, your confusing the act with GOD’s design. HE never said, go forth and rape and murder, HE said “go forth and multiply”. Man, with the insidious assistance of satan has turned to depravity and sin and rape and murder. NOT because it is GOD’s will or our allowance from our creation, but because we have turned against GOD and embraced satan and his evil.

I have great doubt that God exists, and even more so that he’d be a being worth worshiping;
You are under a serious attack of faith and will by satan. You are “giving in” to his whispers that GOD does not exist, that GOD does not love you, that GOD will never love you, and that you can “figure out life” on your own, without the love and mercy and grace of GOD. Trust me! satan is saying to you, and I will show you how to live. Worship yourself, worship your desires, worship your thoughts, worship what “makes you happy”, eat, drink and be merry for in the morning we die.

with contradicting attitudes from the Old to New Testament, and total reclusiveness for the last 2000 years.
The bible does not contradict itself, it is the inspired word of GOD. Many of us, myself included need a lot more study of the bible before we can fully grasp and understand it, so in the meanwhile, you need help. Go to www.salvationhistory.com and Scott Hahn will send you each week, the forth coming Sunday scripture readings with his insight. He is a biblical theologian and can help you/me understand better. But the word of GOD does not contradict itself.

I can already expect the text that Jesus died for my sins, but even that has me thinking. If he was part divine then what kind of sacrifice was this? He needed not fear death, he was God, if he had a divine part he would know of his own ressurection. That leaves the only sacrifice being that of scourging and being nailed to a cross which I’m sure thousands upon millions of other human beings have felt either the same treatment or worse.
Your confusion is easily resolved. Google THE DOLOROUS PASSION OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST and you will discover the book by that title written by Catherine Emmirich, who was taken to the passion and was a witness and she wrote what she saw, and what see saw will bring you to tears and cause you to put down the book as you cannot possibly get through the description of each of JESUS terrible tortures. And JESUS was not tortured as a GOD, HE suffered fully as a man, and no one, NO ONE has suffered the pain that our LORD and GOD has suffered, no one!

I’m reaching a breaking point; it’s come to where I don’t even feel comfort in those moments when I feel there is a God.
You do not yet know this, but you are an adopted son of GOD, through your baptism, and you are the adopted brother of JESUS and JESUS died for you - alone - on that cross, that you may not be lost to the evil one, who is now whispering in your ear "do not believe, do not believe, it is foolish to think that JESUS suffered like a man, do not believe"
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**Flavius, what you are experiencing was seen by Pope Leo XIII in a vision, in which he saw the church ( you are a member of the church) in a terrible battle with satan. And Pope Leo XIII wrote the prayer of St. Michael to help the church fight back and destroy the influence of satan upon us. Flavius, you need to memorzie that prayer, and say it many times each day, for you are losing the battle with satan and your soul may be at stake. Do not go gently into that night, fight the temptation to reject GOD, call upon St. Michael to fight the fight which you/we cannot win on our own with our flesh, for we fight against powers and principalites, and we desparately need St. Michaels assistance.

I will remember your soul before the Holy Souls of Purgatory in prayer and before the Blessed Sacrament, that you will call upon St. Michael and you will not fall to satan.**
 
Flavius_Aetius said:
Why do we give any kind of thanks to God? We’re placed on a planet filled with natural evils that will make us suffer even if we’ve done no wrong. Our very bodies are imperfect and foul in nature, run by hormones strong enough to even overpower our ability to think rationally and sentiently. Every day probably hundreds of thousands of women have natural abortions whether its through development or when the fetus is still an embryo. the very act of childbirth is high risk for fatality when done without medical technology.

I never understood how gnostics could believe what they did in the past but now it seems a lot more believable than this belief that an all good God would prefer that we freely be allowed to rape and murder so long as we have free will.

I have great doubt that God exists, and even more so that he’d be a being worth worshiping; with contradicting attitudes from the Old to New Testament, and total reclusiveness for the last 2000 years.

I can already expect the text that Jesus died for my sins, but even that has me thinking. If he was part divine then what kind of sacrifice was this? He needed not fear death, he was God, if he had a divine part he would know of his own ressurection. That leaves the only sacrifice being that of scourging and being nailed to a cross which I’m sure thousands upon millions of other human beings have felt either the same treatment or worse.

I’m reaching a breaking point; it’s come to where I don’t even feel comfort in those moments when I feel there is a God.
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Flavius,

Your points, questions, and doubts are entirely reasonable if you hold only a natural perspective.

But, they don’t make any sense if you adopt a supernatural perspective.

Is it really unreasonable to believe there is a Father God who loves us, as sons? And who gives us god-like power to love or not love. To decide or not decide. To give or not to give. This choice that underlies so many things in our life is what distinguishes us from animals.

God as Father; Trinity as an eternal exchange of love among divine persons, and our own model of the ideal family…all these things - at least to me - point to a reasonable, very believable case that there is a God who loves us, and who would do anything for us to say yes to Him.
 
I’d like to first thank you all for taking time out of your days to help me in this darkest of hours. I’d be lying if I said I’ve gone through it, but things are looking brighter since all of your assistance. All of your words have certainly brought me a bit closer to a optimistic futrue with God that I hope will come soon.

I’d especially like to thank Julian for his efforts spent on helping me through this problem of faith. I would like to mention one thing however.
Every day probably hundreds of thousands of women have natural abortions whether its through development or when the fetus is still an embryo.
And satan dances with our polititians in celebration thereof, and all those who have “voted” for this evil, shall answer to GOD. But even the lady who was the woman for which the infamous law suit “Roe vs Wade” was initiated, has since renounced abortion and has turned her heart to GOD. GOD works in mysterious ways, and HE turns evil to good.
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When I wrote this I meant failures of the body to bring a baby to term, through miscarriages through either the embryonic stage or beyond. Why is it possible for someone to be conceaved and then just be terminated; sometimes without the mother even knowing they were pregnant. What a horrible existance that would be IMO, to be conceaved only to die never even acknowledged of existing…Is this another fault derived from Original Sin?
 
Flavius_Aetius said:
Why is it possible for someone to be conceaved and then just be terminated; sometimes without the mother even knowing they were pregnant. What a horrible existance that would be IMO, to be conceaved only to die never even acknowledged of existing…Is this another fault derived from Original Sin?
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It would seem so, but I have to admit I’m having some problems right now with Original Sin and the whole thing about Limbo. So the ‘naturally’ aborted babies are, though without conscience, still judged by God as not being worthy of heaven? This doesn’t make any sense to me. I understand that they are still stained with Original Sin since they have not been baptized, but this seems too legalistic for a Christian approach. I mean Christ really looked down upon his contemporary Jewish leaders for being so legalistic about the Sabbath, and yet here we are saying that the most innocent of human beings, even more so than children since they do not even act in any morally relevant way yet, have somehow still been judged by a merciful and loving God to be unworthy of Heaven.

It seem to me that if God could have chosen to preserve the Blessed Virgin from Original Sin by His very willing it, that His raising up Enoch without him dying, and by His taking up Elijah in a flaming chariot to heaven (I’m sure this is more metaphorical or something), then if Almighty God should will it then the babies would all be saved. And since He can do so, He probably does, because it seems absurd that He would condemn the most innocent who don’t even have any self-awareness yet let alone moral responsibility or conscience.

I must admit that this has been somewhat affecting my faith recently. This is my dilemma.
 
Blitzel3 said:
It would seem so, but I have to admit I’m having some problems right now with Original Sin and the whole thing about Limbo. So the ‘naturally’ aborted babies are, though without conscience, still judged by God as not being worthy of heaven? This doesn’t make any sense to me. I understand that they are still stained with Original Sin since they have not been baptized, but this seems too legalistic for a Christian approach. I mean Christ really looked down upon his contemporary Jewish leaders for being so legalistic about the Sabbath, and yet here we are saying that the most innocent of human beings, even more so than children since they do not even act in any morally relevant way yet, have somehow still been judged by a merciful and loving God to be unworthy of Heaven.

It seem to me that if God could have chosen to preserve the Blessed Virgin from Original Sin by His very willing it, that His raising up Enoch without him dying, and by His taking up Elijah in a flaming chariot to heaven (I’m sure this is more metaphorical or something), then if Almighty God should will it then the babies would all be saved. And since He can do so, He probably does, because it seems absurd that He would condemn the most innocent who don’t even have any self-awareness yet let alone moral responsibility or conscience.

I must admit that this has been somewhat affecting my faith recently. This is my dilemma.
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From the catechism of the Catholic Church:

As regards children who have died without baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,” allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy baptism. (CCC 1261)
 
Flavius,
Please read the book of Genesis again and you will see how horribly the “original” sin was and the consequence which it left upon all of the children of Adam/Eve. Death simply was not in GOD’s design. With each successive generation our lives have grown shorter and shorter in years. Pain and suffering were not to be.

I too have lost a sister to a natural rejection within my mothers womb. She was still born 6 decades ago, and I cry as I write this in remembrance of her, although I never knew her. She is in my prayers and my comfort is in the LORD’s words “…let the children come unto ME…”

I appreciate your kind thoughts, but always give thanks to GOD who brings all our gifts by HIS wondrous ways at the time we need them, especially if we call out to HIM for help.

We are all in the fight for our souls. We must all be prayer warriors or we will lose the fight. Embrace the prayer to St. Michael and say it often when you tempted to give up or disbelieve, and rest in the rosary as The Queen Mother is our Co-Redemtrix and with Her love and assistance, Falvius, we shall meet in heaven.
 
Flavius_Aetius said:
Why do we give any kind of thanks to God? We’re placed on a planet filled with natural evils that will make us suffer even if we’ve done no wrong. Our very bodies are imperfect and foul in nature, run by hormones strong enough to even overpower our ability to think rationally and sentiently. Every day probably hundreds of thousands of women have natural abortions whether its through development or when the fetus is still an embryo. the very act of childbirth is high risk for fatality when done without medical technology.

I never understood how gnostics could believe what they did in the past but now it seems a lot more believable than this belief that an all good God would prefer that we freely be allowed to rape and murder so long as we have free will.

I have great doubt that God exists, and even more so that he’d be a being worth worshiping; with contradicting attitudes from the Old to New Testament, and total reclusiveness for the last 2000 years.

I can already expect the text that Jesus died for my sins, but even that has me thinking. If he was part divine then what kind of sacrifice was this? He needed not fear death, he was God, if he had a divine part he would know of his own ressurection. That leaves the only sacrifice being that of scourging and being nailed to a cross which I’m sure thousands upon millions of other human beings have felt either the same treatment or worse.

I’m reaching a breaking point; it’s come to where I don’t even feel comfort in those moments when I feel there is a God.
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Because existence is good-even in this screwed-up world the majority cling to it-cherish it even, especially when it’s threatened. And those few who might wish to end it it only do so due to some extreme pain, not because it’s their choice.

And, when, in light of revelation and due to Gods grace, we come to realize that God, Himself, came down and not only lived as a human but also voluntarily suffered immensely as one, and that His desire from the beginning is mans eternal happiness, then we’ve come to know that love will reign in the end. Evil has only been given the freedom to oppose His will for a time. Meanwhile we’re here to learn that this very opposition is the cause of our unhappiness-that we need God in order to have life and have it more abundantly.
 
As far as the original sin goes, you have our first parents in the garden and they mistakenly obeyed the serpent rather than God. They were entirely ignorant. How could a just God condemn them for an ignorant choice. How were they to know that it was good to obey God, or that it was bad to disobey him? They had no knowledge? This has always bugged me. And because of that, God condemned their children? Why? How is that fair? Not on of us here would cause suffering on on another person’s child merely because of what they did and say “Well they were present/represented in their parent, so legally they also must pay the price.”

Moreover, why couldn’t God just forgive them? You’re saying that it is absolutely necessary to punish someone for their crimes? A just judge punishes in order to rehabilitate, not merely for sake of punishment. The latter is our own human inclinations. If someone hurts my mother, I want them to be hurt as well. But in truth, punishment ought to rehabilitate the person so that they will not hurt anyone else and perhaps see the error in their ways. God needs nothing from us, and yet he finds it “necessary” to punish people eternally with maximal suffering for the sake of eternal maximal suffering. There is no rehabilitation, there is no mercy, and there is no justice. And all of this is because our ancestors made one ignorant and uninformed choice. This doesn’t sound intelligible to me anymore, and in order to believe it I have to deny every bit of sense I have in my analysis of it on order to rationalize everything that follows.

What is original sin? A stain? What exactly does that mean? Our nature is corrupted? Again, what precisely is meant by this. Eve ate the fruit. Then what? Her action corrupted/stained her soul how? Or is original sin more of a perspective: God’s perspective on us? Kind of like when you know an innocent girl and once you’ve seen her with a jerk guy you kind get upset because you thought she was so perfectly innocent that it hurts to see her out of character with some jerk. Is it like that? Or are we literally dirty from our actions? What exactly is meant behind such language. This language makes sense on the surface, but not so much when you analyze it deeper.

What about Mary? God chose to create her without original sin. Why couldn’t he do that for everyone? He could have, and he chose not to. What about Enoch? God took him without dying into heaven, like Elijah, and Christ didn’t come yet. Why were they in heaven then?

I must say that my faith is in dire trouble, and it seems like it will vanish soon.
 
God makes perfect sense, it is us who do not have perfect wisdom and understanding. We need faith in our loving God.

God knew that pride (sin) would enter in and be the cause for the fall. He already had the Remedy for us!

Perhaps sitting down and talking with a priest you feel comfortable with will help?
 
Concerning Adam and Eve’s disobedience:

What does it mean to understand disobedience? Do you mean to know that disobeying is wrong in itself, or that it was wrong to disobey in that particular way? A child is told not do action A, and as far they understand they simply have received a command. They don’t know why action A is wrong, and initially they don’t even know why disobeying the command it wrong. That is where punishment comes in. It is rehabilitative. Now they understand that it is wrong to disobey because if they do then they will be punished. Only when they are older they will realize again something else. Aside from fear of punishment, the reason Action A is wrong is because it hurts me to drink this rubbing alcohol.

So where is Adam and Eve on the spectrum? They had no knowledge of good and evil. They certainly didn’t understand that supposed inherent evil of the action of eating the fruit because they didn’t know that eating the fruit would harm their nature, or whatever. They certainly didn’t understand why it is wrong to disobey either, because they had no understanding of the consequences. Even being told the consequences wouldn’t mean someone understands them.

And they certainly are not morally responsible for actions they have no understanding at all about. So if a child disobeys you and eats from the cookie jar, sure they should be punished, but this is in order for them to learn to obey so that until they understand morality the must simply be fearful of the parent. The only thing Adam and Eve had, after eating the fruit, was not only the knowledge of what they did, but also that God would be pissed. Beforehand, they had no understanding of what was essentially an ignorant act on their part.
 
Blitzel3 said:
Concerning Adam and Eve’s disobedience:

What does it mean to understand disobedience? Do you mean to know that disobeying is wrong in itself, or that it was wrong to disobey in that particular way? A child is told not do action A, and as far they understand they simply have received a command. They don’t know why action A is wrong, and initially they don’t even know why disobeying the command it wrong. That is where punishment comes in. It is rehabilitative. Now they understand that it is wrong to disobey because if they do then they will be punished. Only when they are older they will realize again something else. Aside from fear of punishment, the reason Action A is wrong is because it hurts me to drink this rubbing alcohol.

So where is Adam and Eve on the spectrum? They had no knowledge of good and evil. They certainly didn’t understand that supposed inherent evil of the action of eating the fruit because they didn’t know that eating the fruit would harm their nature, or whatever. They certainly didn’t understand why it is wrong to disobey either, because they had no understanding of the consequences. Even being told the consequences wouldn’t mean someone understands them.

And they certainly are not morally responsible for actions they have no understanding at all about. So if a child disobeys you and eats from the cookie jar, sure they should be punished, but this is in order for them to learn to obey so that until they understand morality the must simply be fearful of the parent. The only thing Adam and Eve had, after eating the fruit, was not only the knowledge of what they did, but also that God would be pissed. Beforehand, they had no understanding of what was essentially an ignorant act on their part.
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Moreover, let us assume that they are adults then:

So two adults made the free choice to disobey God, although, again, they had no knowledge of good and evil (right and wrong), and so they didn’t actually know that disobeying was wrong, but let us assume that they did. In fact, let us assume they knew everything we know right now, but they had the tendency to do good rather than evil.

So, it is morally justified to punish these two adults AND their children? Perhaps their action wounded, or somehow inexplicably altered, human nature and thus humanity as a whole felt the effect of their decision.

How did an action change their nature? According to the story, simply because they were made perfect did not mean they couldn’t sin. So sin was still something that they were capable of doing even though they were perfect. So why did a sin change their perfect nature into an imperfect one? Obviously, I don’t mean perfect like God. I mean perfect as God made them.
 
Flavius_Aetius said:
Why do we give any kind of thanks to God? We’re placed on a planet filled with natural evils that will make us suffer even if we’ve done no wrong. Our very bodies are imperfect and foul in nature, run by hormones strong enough to even overpower our ability to think rationally and sentiently. Every day probably hundreds of thousands of women have natural abortions whether its through development or when the fetus is still an embryo. the very act of childbirth is high risk for fatality when done without medical technology.

I never understood how gnostics could believe what they did in the past but now it seems a lot more believable than this belief that an all good God would prefer that we freely be allowed to rape and murder so long as we have free will.

I have great doubt that God exists, and even more so that he’d be a being worth worshiping; with contradicting attitudes from the Old to New Testament, and total reclusiveness for the last 2000 years.

I can already expect the text that Jesus died for my sins, but even that has me thinking. If he was part divine then what kind of sacrifice was this? He needed not fear death, he was God, if he had a divine part he would know of his own ressurection. That leaves the only sacrifice being that of scourging and being nailed to a cross which I’m sure thousands upon millions of other human beings have felt either the same treatment or worse.

I’m reaching a breaking point; it’s come to where I don’t even feel comfort in those moments when I feel there is a God.
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You give a litany of awful things that man has done, and then say “why thank God?” We thank God that he sustains us and forgives us in his mercy despite all the awful things we do.

-ACEGC
 
Blitze,

Aren’t you assuming that Adam and Eve were ignorant? They were full of grace and walked with God in perfect happiness. They were told to obey and they didn’t. They believed the lie of Satan who told them that they would be like God if they disobeyed. Everything that God allows is for our happiness and our greater good. Without the example of our Lord Jesus Christ we would not be aware of how much God loves us. God knew in advance all this would happen, and He had the Remedy.

Enoch and Elijah’s being brought to heaven will be played out at God’s appointed time.
 
Dorothy said:
Blitze,

Aren’t you assuming that Adam and Eve were ignorant? They were full of grace and walked with God in perfect happiness. They were told to obey and they didn’t. They believed the lie of Satan who told them that they would be like God if they disobeyed. Everything that God allows is for our happiness and our greater good. Without the example of our Lord Jesus Christ we would not be aware of how much God loves us. God knew in advance all this would happen, and He had the Remedy.

Enoch and Elijah’s being brought to heaven will be played out at God’s appointed time.
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The body and soul are one. Original sin is a stain upon the soul resulting in death and an inclination towards doing bad. At baptism, you are cleansed of original sin through the death of Christ. Therefore, those who are baptized are free from original sin, but still suffer the consequences of sin. Hence, they still have an inclination towards doing bad, and they will die. God creates the soul from nothing while the body comes from the parents, then the soul must be stained in its contact with the body, which occurs basically instantaneously, which would mean that original sin is corruption of our physical nature, but I don’t believe this is how the dogma is presented.

So which is it? The soul, created by God has the sinfulness of humanity from its contact with the body at conception, which is basically instantaneous, or is sinfulness in the soul aside from the body? If it is at all in the soul aside from the body, then God himself creates the soul with the stain of original sin since it is created without he souls of the parents. If it is through contact with the body that it is stained with original sin, then the original sin is in the physical nature of the body. So they passed on a corrupted physical nature, but God either created the soul of each individual either with the stain that he put there himself (for consistency’s sake?) or he didn’t, and the soul gets corrupted when it contacts the body.

So regardless of Adam and Eve’s knowledge, or lack thereof, how can a change in nature occur by their actions? How does this change transfer to the souls of their offspring. If original sin is a “privation”, then that is God choice since there is nothing about a baby’s soul that is inherently evil accept that God chooses to not give it sanctifying grace because of what their parents did. That seems unjust.
 
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