God

[Kev]

I have enrolled in my first class at the local seminary. I’m not a seminarian; I am laity taking a discipleship class. The first week we read about the “Calling of Moses”. The second week we read “The calling of Jeremiah”. The third week will read the “Calling of St. Mark”. The first two readings have caused me a measurable amount of distress. God told Moses that as an affirmation of his calling He would smite the Egyptians. God tells Jeremiah that He will pronounce His sentence against Judah and deliver Jeremiah from the Kings, priests, and people of Judah.

My concern/distress is the apparent contradiction in the OT God who seems an awful lot like a temperamental God of wrath and Christ who comes to fulfill the law and the prophets with a message of unconditional love. Our class had a discussion on this and came up with the following possible answers:

1. The people in the OT wrote about God in relation to their understanding of God which was based on their culture which looked at all gods as being wrathful.
2. The OT is not a historical account of real events but is a guideline and metaphor to express man’s relationship with his creator.
3. God saw that humanity could not keep His commandments and so He sent us a new covenant as the final sacrifice for all sins past and future.

We found holes in all of these theories, and our professor provided no direction whatsoever, as this “is not a class on scripture”!

Do you agree with one of our three conclusions or do you have new words of wisdom to share?

Much Peace,

Kevin

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[Forest-Pine]

I would say that the focus is different. In OT times, man could only be justified through the law. Thus, there is a strong emphasis on the law and on what happens when society breaks the law.

Jesus fulfilled the law and became our justification. Thus, the emphasis shifts from legalism to love because our relationship with God did as well.

(Just my two cents.)

 

[Jim_Baur]

Show me the inspiration?

In other words, do you all believe the Holy Spirit inspired the accounts?

 

[Steven_Merten]

Hello Kevin,

“unconditional love”? Where do you find this in the bible? This is a term created by modern “progressives”.

What part about Jesus warnings make Him look different than the Holy Trinity of Old Testament? If you love someone in NT or OT, you warn them about eternal damnation.

Please visit WARNING! Jesus Does Not Forgive All

NAB REV 22:12

“Remember, I am coming soon! I bring with me the reward that will be given to each man as his conduct deserves. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End! **Happy are they who wash their robes so as to have free access to the tree of life **and enter the city through its gates Outside are the dogs and sorcerers, the fornicators and murderers, the idol-worshipers and all who love falsehood.”

NAB REV 2:22

“I mean to cast her down on a bed of pain; her companions in sin I will plunge into intense suffering unless they repent of their sins with her, and her children I will put to death. Thus shall all the churches come to know that I am the searcher of hearts and minds, and that I will give each of you what your conduct deserves.”

NAB JOH 5:27

“The Father has given over to him power to pass judgment because he is Son of Man; no need for you to be surprised at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in their tombs shall hear his voice and come forth. Those who have done right shall rise to live; the evildoers shall rise to be damned.”

**NAB LUK 13:23 **

'I do not know where (you) are from. Depart from me, all you evildoers!’ And there will be wailing and grinding of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God and you yourselves cast out.

**NAB MAR 10:15 **

Amen, I say to you, whoever does not accept the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it."

NAB MAT 25:41

Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

**NAB MAT 13:47-50 **

The reign of God is also like a dragnet thrown into the lake, which collected all sorts of things. When it was full they hauled it ashore and sat down to put what was worthwhile into containers. What was useless they threw away. That is how it will be at the end of the world. Angels will go out and separate the wicked from the just and **hurl the wicked into the fiery furnace, where they will wail and grind their teeth. **

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Such a deep question. I’ve struggled to get a handle on this one too.

Maybe there is something to answer one.

Answer two is troublesome. How do you trust God if He gives you His word as truth, and then expects you to intuit that it’s a metaphor? Surely Genesis and Job are somewhat metaphorical in nature (the texts imply this in themselves), but Joshua? No, many of the “vengeful God” accounts read like histories, and does the Lord want us to read these as allegory?

Answer three is best. My own additions:

We humans tend to think we’re pretty hot stuff – and we don’t realize what an AWFUL thing sin is. The price of sin is death. Period. If God told Joshua to kill the women and children of the Canaanites, He was simply being just. From God’s perspective, there is nothing innocent in humanity – simply disobedience in need of grace.

Only after Jesus is this grace fully realized. There are suggestions before Jesus – Job’s “I know that my Redeemer lives” comes to mind, and the Messiahnic (sp?) prophecies of Isaiah. Israel, as a nation, prefigured all humanity, in humanity’s search for obedience and grace.

Israel means, “He struggles with God.”

Jesus means, “God saves.”

: Prodigal :

 

[Kev]

Steven Merten:

Hello Kevin,

“unconditional love”? Where do you find this in the bible? This is a term created by modern “progressives”.

What part about Jesus warnings make Him look different than the Holy Trinity of Old Testament? If you love someone in NT or OT, you warn them about eternal damnation.

“Unconditional love” came from our class discussions, just as did “Temperamental God”.

Now, my biggest area of concern is in the personality of God in the OT affirming that His call was true by smiting people and destroying life. Jesus called His disciples and they followed Him immediately, without questions or requests for affirmation. In addition, Jesus sat with sinners, dined with sinners, and didn’t kill anyone while He was walking the earth. The biggest dilemma for me is that in the OT, God took life from the enemies of Israel!! Or was this just a perception on the part of the Israelites because of the way they viewed all gods?

Kevin

<>

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Steven Merten:

Hello Kevin,

“unconditional love”? Where do you find this in the bible? This is a term created by modern “progressives”.

Um, excuse me, but God loves us all unconditionally. He may punish, but He loves. This is literally ALL OVER the Bible. “His steadfast love endures forever.” “If we are faithless, He remains faithful; for He cannot deny Himself.”

No man need ever fear to lose the love of God.

Every man need fear to lose His approval.

 

[Steven_Merten]

Forest-Pine:

I would say that the focus is different. In OT times, man could only be justified through the law. Thus, there is a strong emphasis on the law and on what happens when society breaks the law.

Jesus fulfilled the law and became our justification. Thus, the emphasis shifts from legalism to love because our relationship with God did as well.

(Just my two cents.)

Hello Forest-Pine,

Jesus fulfills the law for Old Testament people also. The only way anyone can go to heaven, as God promises in His OT covenant, is through the blood of Jesus. We know Abraham goes to heaven through Jesus.

God tells man that if man sins, he will die. God cannot lie. Man sins therefore man dies. Jesus dies for our sins, OT and NT, so we may be forgiven and go to heaven. Thus Jesus fulfills the demands of God’s law so we, OT and NT sinners, can go to heaven.

NAB LUK 13:28

And there will be wailing and grinding of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God and you yourselves cast out. NAB JER 33:6 Behold, I will treat and assuage the city’s wounds;** I will heal them, and reveal to them an abundance of lasting peace. I will change the lot of Judah and the lot of Israel,** and rebuild them as of old. I will cleanse them of all the guilt they incurred by sinning against me; all their offenses by which they sinned and rebelled against me, I will forgive. Then Jerusalem shall be my joy, my praise, my glory, before all the nations of the earth, as they hear of all the good I will do among them. They shall be in fear and trembling over all the peaceful benefits I will give her. Thus says the LORD: In this place of which you say, “How desolate it is, without man, without beast!” and in the cities of Judah, in the streets of Jerusalem that are now deserted, without man, without citizen, without beast, there shall yet be heard the cry of joy, the cry of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, the voice of the bride, the sound of those who bring thank offerings to the house of the LORD, singing, **“Give thanks to the LORD of hosts, for the LORD is good; his mercy endures forever.” **For I will restore this country as of old, says the LORD. Thus says the LORD of hosts: In this place, now desolate, without man or beast, and in all its cities there shall again be sheepfolds for the shepherds to couch their flocks. In the cities of the hill country, of the foothills, and of the Negeb, in the land of Benjamin and the suburbs of Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, flocks will again pass under the hands of the one who counts them, says the LORD. The days are coming, says the LORD, when **I will fulfill the promise I made to the house of Israel and Judah. In those days, in that time, I will raise up for David a just shoot; he shall do what is right and just in the land. **In those days Judah shall be safe and Jerusalem shall dwell secure; this is what they shall call her: “The LORD our justice.”

**NAB ISA 53:4 **

(Isaiah to the Israelites.)

Who would believe what we have heard? To whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? He grew up like a sapling before him, like a shoot from the parched earth; There was in him no stately bearing to make us look at him, nor appearance that would attract us to him. He was spurned and avoided by men, a man of suffering, accustomed to infirmity, One of those from whom men hide their faces, spurned, and we held him in no esteem. Yet it was our infirmities that he bore, our sufferings that he endured, While we thought of him as stricken, as one smitten by God and afflicted. But he was pierced for our offenses, crushed for our sins, Upon him was the chastisement that makes us whole, by his stripes we were healed. We had all gone astray like sheep, each following his own way; But the LORD laid upon him the guilt of us all.

 

[Steven_Merten]

Prodigal_Son:

Um, excuse me, but God loves us all unconditionally. He may punish, but He loves. This is literally ALL OVER the Bible. “His steadfast love endures forever.” “If we are faithless, He remains faithful; for He cannot deny Himself.”

No man need ever fear to lose the love of God.

Every man need fear to lose His approval.

Hello Prodigal,

God does love us. It is all over the bible. When modernists add the term “unconditional” they mean to add to the bible that because God loves us, no one will go to hell no matter how much unrepentant sin they commit. This is a great deception to the truth about God’s love. People will go to hell.

 

[Steven_Merten]

“Unconditional love” came from our class discussions, just as did “Temperamental God”.

Now, my biggest area of concern is in the personality of God in the OT affirming that His call was true by smiting people and destroying life. Jesus called His disciples and they followed Him immediately, without questions or requests for affirmation. In addition, Jesus sat with sinners, dined with sinners, and didn’t kill anyone while He was walking the earth. The biggest dilemma for me is that in the OT, God took life from the enemies of Israel!! Or was this just a perception on the part of the Israelites because of the way they viewed all gods?

Kevin

<>

Hello Kevin,

Would you rather be slayed by the sword of man or slayed by the sword of Jesus? Jesus put His spiritually deadly sword, the power to hold sins bound in heaven which damns souls to spiritual death, into the hands (or shall I say onto the tounges) of Apostolic Successors. If you are worried about death by the sword, worry about death by Christ’s sword.

Please visit Throwing Stones

**NAB MAT 16:13 **

Jesus replied, “Blest are you, Simon son of John! No mere man has revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. I for my part declare to you, you are ‘Rock,’ and on this rock I will build my church, and the jaws of death shall not prevail against it. I will entrust to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you declare bound on earth shall be bound in heaven; whatever you declare loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Then he strictly ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.**NAB REV 1:16 **

A sharp, two-edged sword came out of his mouth, and his face shone like the sun at its brightest. When I caught sight of him I fell down at his feet as though dead, he touched me with his right hand and said: “There is nothing to fear. I am the First and the Last and the One who lives. Once I was dead but now I live-- forever and ever. I hold the keys of death and the nether world.”

**NAB ISA 11:4 **The Rule of Immanuel

He shall strike the ruthless with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips he shall slay the wicked.​

**NAB JOH 20:20 **

At the sight of the Lord the disciples rejoiced. “Peace be with you,” he said again. “As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” Then he breathed on them and said: “Recieve the Holy Spirit. If you forgive men’s sins, they are forgiven them; if you hold them bound, they are held bound.” NAB MAT 5:22

What I say to you is: everyone who grows angry with his brother shall be liable to judgement; any man who uses abusive language toward his brother shall be** answerable to the Sanhedrin,** and if he holds him in contempt he risks the fires of Gehenna. **NAB MAT 18:17 **

“If he ignores them, refer it to the church . If he ignores even the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. I assure you, whatever you declare bound on earth shall be held bound in heaven, and whatever you declare loosed on earth shall be held loosed in heaven.”

 

[Forest-Pine]

Steven Merten:

Hello Prodigal,

God does love us. It is all over the bible. When modernists add the term “unconditional” they mean to add to the bible that because God loves us, no one will go to hell no matter how much unrepentant sin they commit. This is a great deception to the truth about God’s love. People will go to hell.

It is not God’s love which allows us to go to hell. It is his justness, and our personal freedom of will. Notheless, this is spliting hairs and I do not disagree with you.

Hello Forest-Pine,

Jesus fulfills the law for Old Testament people also. The only way anyone can go to heaven, as God promises in His OT covenant, is through the blood of Jesus. We know Abraham goes to heaven through Jesus.
Steven Merten:

God tells man that if man sins, he will die. God cannot lie. Man sins therefore man dies. Jesus dies for our sins, OT and NT, so we may be forgiven and go to heaven. Thus Jesus fulfills the demands of God’s law so we, OT and NT sinners, can go to heaven.

Steven,
You took the discussion in a different angle than I did. The OT was in widespread usage before Jesus’ time. The people, waiting for a Messiah, were not yet justified through his death. Instead, they offered sacrificial blood holocausts in the form of specified and outlined animals. They were very much under the law. This isn’t my expertise, but I believe the process goes that those who were justified under the OT law rested in Abraham’s bosom until Jesus opened the gates of Heaven. In order to get into Abraham’s bosom in the first place, though, our ancestors had to be justified under the law. We do not have the extra steps as Jesus justified all. This difference in our relationship with the Lord is what I referenced in my first post.

 

[Jim_Baur]

Please forgive me, do the students believe that the Bible is the word of God?

I am curious.

Do the students and prof. think they are in a social science class?

Do they think they are in a literature class?

I am not being rude. Sorry if if sounds that way. I really am curious.

Why are all of you studing the BIBLE?

 

[Kev]

Steven Merten:

Hello Kevin,

Would you rather be slayed by the sword of man or slayed by the sword of Jesus? Jesus put His spiritually deadly sword, the power to hold sins bound in heaven which damns souls to spiritual death, into the hands (or shall I say onto the tounges) of Apostolic Successors. If you are worried about death by the sword, worry about death by Christ’s sword.

Please visit Throwing Stones

Steven,

“Would you rather be slayed by the sword of man or slayed by the sword of Jesus?” - Is that my only option? Is God going to slay me? I believe that I am being saved by Jesus Christ. What I don’t understand is how we can teach that God slays people. It is one thing to say that when we die and are judged we will be rewarded or punished for the life we have lived (thus says Christ). It is another thing to say that I’m going to bring death upon the people of this nation in order to prove to you that I am God (OT God). Herein lies my dilemma.

BTW: I checked out your website and it is quite extensive - I will need plenty of time to read through it. You are leaps and bounds ahead of me in scriptual knowledge, but I don’t know if you’re understanding my question. I will try and re-phrase it:

Did the God of the OT take human life to prove that He was God or as a result of wrath? Did Jesus? Why such a difference here?

Kevin

<>

 

[Kev]

Jim Baur:

Please forgive me, do the students believe that the Bible is the word of God?

I am curious.

Do the students and prof. think they are in a social science class?

Do they think they are in a literature class?

I am not being rude. Sorry if if sounds that way. I really am curious.

Why are all of you studing the BIBLE?

It’s a discipleship class for laity. This question came up (from me) as I am struggling to understand God smiting people in the OT. The three answers I listed came from classmates, expressing their different views. It is the opinion of about half of the class that the bible is not a factual historical record. But an account of history as seen through the eyes of an age-old culture with out-dated views on God. The professor has removed herself from the discussions, something about not being a scripture theologian…

<>

 

[vluvski]

I have to agree with Forest Pine’s conclusion that the separation of pre-resurrection and post-resurrection is key here.

God is independent of time, cannot change. Any conclusion that suggests otherwise is heresy.

Without the gift of the Holy Spirit, people of the Old Testament were unable to fully understand the severity of the damages caused by sin, which means spiritual death; the severity was instead manifested by God imposing a fitting physical consequence: physical death. This response is loving as well as just, because it was the best way at the time for God to reveal Himself to us.

How God can be all-loving, all-merciful, and all-just at the same time is one of the great mysteries. You have stumbled upon a MOST intriguing discussion!

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Kev ><>:

Did the God of the OT take human life to prove that He was God or as a result of wrath?

<>

One thought: Death is a big deal to us, understandably. Death is no big deal to God.

I believe God will give us every possible chance to turn to Him. But we have a choice in the end. Those O.T. people had a choice, and were given an opportunity by God. Even if God “killed” them (the word has no relevance when applied to God), he was looking out for their best interests.

Death is not the end.

(I’m not saying this is a good “answer.” But it is a step in a struggle. If Scripture were easy for us to fathom, then God wouldn’t BE God.)

 

[Steven_Merten]

Forest-Pine:

Steven,
You took the discussion in a different angle than I did. The OT was in widespread usage before Jesus’ time. The people, waiting for a Messiah, were not yet justified through his death. Instead, they offered sacrificial blood holocausts in the form of specified and outlined animals. They were very much under the law. This isn’t my expertise, but I believe the process goes that those who were justified under the OT law rested in Abraham’s bosom until Jesus opened the gates of Heaven. In order to get into Abraham’s bosom in the first place, though, our ancestors had to be justified under the law. We do not have the extra steps as Jesus justified all. This difference in our relationship with the Lord is what I referenced in my first post.

Hello Forest Pine,

Do we agree that the only way for Abraham to go to heaven, as Jesus tells us he does, is through the blood of Jesus?

When Jesus is asked, “What must I do to share in everlasting life?” Jesus quotes God’s covenant for eternal life from Old Testament. Jesus gives us the same answer of what must be done to go to heaven as Abraham was given.

St. Paul was talking about the law of circumcision and the Pharisee created laws. Not God’s commandments. If he was talking about God’s commandments then he would be making Jesus a liar because St. Paul says no one is justified by the law. Jesus tells us Abraham was justified. What ever Jesus fulfilled for Christians, He fulfilled for Abraham.

Both Old Testament people and New Testiment people must go through Jesus blood to go to heaven. The reason anyone, OT or NT go to heaven is because they love God with all their hearts through obeying God with all their hearts. Jesus gives the same answer as God did in Old Testiment as to what we must do to go to heaven.

NAB DEU 30:15 The Choice before Israel.

"Here then, I have today set before you life and prosperity, death and doom. If you obey the commandments of the LORD, your God, which I enjoin on you today, loving him, and walking in his ways, and keeping his commandments, statutes and decrees, you will live

NAB MAT 19:16

“Teacher, what good must I do to possess everlasting life?” He answered, “Why do you question me about what is good? There is One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." “Which ones?” he asked. Jesus replied “You shall not kill”; ‘You shall not commit adultery’; ‘You shall not steal’; ‘You shall not bear false witness’; ‘Honor your father and mother’; and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

NAB DEU 6:1

"These then are the commandments, the statutes and decrees which the LORD, your God, has ordered that you be taught to observe in the land into which you are crossing for conquest, so that you and your son and your grandson may fear the LORD, your God, and keep, throughout the days of your lives, all his statutes and commandments which I enjoin on you, and thus have long life. Hear then, Israel, and be careful to observe them, that you may grow and prosper the more in keeping with the promise of the LORD, the God of your fathers, to give you a land flowing with milk and honey." The great commandment. Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD alone! Therefore, you shall love the LORD, your God, with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength. Take to heart these words which I enjoin on you today. Drill them into your children. Speak of them at home and abroad, whether you are busy or at rest. Bind them at your wrist as a sign and let them be as a pendant on your forehead. Write them on the doorposts of your houses and on your gates.

NAB LUK 10:25

On one occasion a lawyer stood up to pose him this problem: “Teacher, what must I do to inherit everlasting life?” Jesus answered him: "What is written in the law? How do you read it?" He replied:

**"You shall love the Lord your God **
**with all your heart, **
**with all your soul, **
**with all your strength, **
**and with all your mind; **
and your neighbor as yourself."
Jesus said, “You have answered correctly. Do this and you shall live.”

 

[Steven_Merten]

Kev ><>:

Steven,

“Would you rather be slayed by the sword of man or slayed by the sword of Jesus?” - Is that my only option? Is God going to slay me? I believe that I am being saved by Jesus Christ. What I don’t understand is how we can teach that God slays people. It is one thing to say that when we die and are judged we will be rewarded or punished for the life we have lived (thus says Christ). It is another thing to say that I’m going to bring death upon the people of this nation in order to prove to you that I am God (OT God). Herein lies my dilemma.

BTW: I checked out your website and it is quite extensive - I will need plenty of time to read through it. You are leaps and bounds ahead of me in scriptual knowledge, but I don’t know if you’re understanding my question. I will try and re-phrase it:

Did the God of the OT take human life to prove that He was God or as a result of wrath? Did Jesus? Why such a difference here?

Kevin

<>

Hello Kevin,

Thanks for visiting I Love You, God!

I think it would be unlikely that God destroyed the world with the flood in order to prove to Noah that He was God. Noah already believed in God and the rest of the people were dead and could not appreciate what God had done if God had destroyed everyone to prove something.

God desires that the world produce the fruit of love for God through obedience to God. God sometimes plows under and replants like the flood and sometimes God simply hoes the garden by the sword so it will produce the fruit of the Kingdom of God.

So do you think that Jesus would never kill because he did not kill during His 33 years in the flesh? Does not the Father go for centuries or even milleniums without killing someone? Is it really fair to separate Jesus from all the wrath and destruction Jesus dishes out in Revelations?

NAB REV 19:14The armies of heaven were behind him riding white hroses and dressed in fine linen, pure and white. Out of his mouth came a sharp sword for striking down the nations. He will shepherd them with and iron rod; it is he who will tread out the winepress the blazing wrath of God the Almighty.

 

[Mystophilus]

Kev ><>:

My concern/distress is the apparent contradiction in the OT God who seems an awful lot like a temperamental God of wrath and Christ who comes to fulfill the law and the prophets with a message of unconditional love.

For a multitude of the people, many from Ephraim, Manasseh, Issachar, and Zebulun, had not cleansed themselves, yet they ate the Passover contrary to what was written. But Hezekiah prayed for them, saying, “May the good LORD provide atonement for everyone who prepares his heart to seek God, the LORD God of his fathers, though he is not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary.” And the LORD listened to Hezekiah and healed the people. (2 Chronicles 30:18-20)
For I desire mercy and not sacrifice,
And the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. (Hosea 6:6)
He has shown you, O man, what is good;
And what does the LORD require of you
But to do justly,
To love mercy,
And to walk humbly with your God? (Micah 6:8)
Who is a God like You,
Pardoning iniquity
And passing over the transgression of the remnant of His heritage?
He does not retain His anger forever,
Because He delights in mercy. (Micah 7:18)
But the LORD said, “You have had pity on the plant for which you have not labored, nor made it grow, which came up in a night and perished in a night. And should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left—and much livestock?” (Jonah 4:10-1)
Jonah is my favourite. The story revolves around God’s having commissioned Jonah to preach to the Assyrians in Nineveh. The Assyrians were nasty to a degree which made the Nazis look almost friendly, and they had been slaughtering Jonah’s people. Jonah fled from God’s call because he knew that, if the Assyrians repented, God would forgive them, and Jonah could not accept that.Therefore I fled previously to Tarshish; for I know that You are a gracious and merciful God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, One who relents from doing harm. (Jonah 4:2)
God’s mercy never ends. Yes, God did order the annihilation of entire nations, just as in Acts 5 the Holy Spirit killed Ananias and Sapphira, and multitudes die in the Revelation. Still, as Jonah notes, God is merciful and slow to anger. The decision is not capricious, nor happy.

The people in the OT wrote about God in relation to their understanding of God which was based on their culture which looked at all gods as being wrathful.

Yes: we write in words which we have invented for the purpose of describing things which we know. Thus, we re-create God as something comprehensible to us. This is the purpose of language.

The OT is not a historical account of real events but is a guideline and metaphor to express man’s relationship with his creator.

Sometimes: some narrative parts of the OT are simply history, others are allegory, and others are a mixture. The art lies in deciding which is which.

God saw that humanity could not keep His commandments and so He sent us a new covenant as the final sacrifice for all sins past and future.

Yes, but God, being omniscient, knew this before we were even created.

 

[Kev]

Mystophilus:

For a multitude of the people, many from Ephraim, Manasseh, Issachar, and Zebulun, had not cleansed themselves, yet they ate the Passover contrary to what was written. But Hezekiah prayed for them, saying, “May the good LORD provide atonement for everyone who prepares his heart to seek God, the LORD God of his fathers, though he is not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary.” And the LORD listened to Hezekiah and healed the people. (2 Chronicles 30:18-20)
For I desire mercy and not sacrifice,
And the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. (Hosea 6:6)
He has shown you, O man, what is good;
And what does the LORD require of you
But to do justly,
To love mercy,
And to walk humbly with your God? (Micah 6:8)
Who is a God like You,
Pardoning iniquity
And passing over the transgression of the remnant of His heritage?
He does not retain His anger forever,
Because He delights in mercy. (Micah 7:18)
But the LORD said, “You have had pity on the plant for which you have not labored, nor made it grow, which came up in a night and perished in a night. And should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left—and much livestock?” (Jonah 4:10-1)
Jonah is my favourite. The story revolves around God’s having commissioned Jonah to preach to the Assyrians in Nineveh. The Assyrians were nasty to a degree which made the Nazis look almost friendly, and they had been slaughtering Jonah’s people. Jonah fled from God’s call because he knew that, if the Assyrians repented, God would forgive them, and Jonah could not accept that.Therefore I fled previously to Tarshish; for I know that You are a gracious and merciful God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, One who relents from doing harm. (Jonah 4:2)
God’s mercy never ends. Yes, God did order the annihilation of entire nations, just as in Acts 5 the Holy Spirit killed Ananias and Sapphira, and multitudes die in the Revelation. Still, as Jonah notes, God is merciful and slow to anger. The decision is not capricious, nor happy.

Yes: we write in words which we have invented for the purpose of describing things which we know. Thus, we re-create God as something comprehensible to us. This is the purpose of language.

Sometimes: some narrative parts of the OT are simply history, others are allegory, and others are a mixture. The art lies in deciding which is which.

Yes, but God, being omniscient, knew this before we were even created.

Thanks for pointing out the positive actions and characteristics of God in the OT. I’ve got a sense of peace about this now. I’ve got a lot of studying to do, too. One thing I’ve learned in this class is that I don’t know very much! But to quote St. Paul, I know that “If I live, I live for the Lord. If I die, I die for the Lord. If I live or die, I am the Lord’s!”

Peace

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