Godparent Puzzle

[TheDumbFox]

Okay, I have a predicament concerning my nephew’s Godparents. Who are they?

Here’s the situation. (Using fake names to get the point across.)

John is my nephew’s uncle. Mary is his girlfriend. They are both Catholic and not confirmed. They agree to be the Godparents of my nephew and are present at the Baptism.

Also present at the baptism (and agreed to be a Godparent) is my brother Richard, who is a confirmed Catholic.

On the Baptismal certificate, it says that John and Mary are the Godparents. Richard thinks that he is a Godparent, but the certificate does not say so. (I have no idea if the parish has any other paperwork, I’m just going off of the certificate.)

The problem is, in Canon law, you can only have two Godparents and they both have to be confirmed. Is Richard the Godparent, even though there’s no paperwork, since he thought he was a Godparent, was confirmed and participated in the Baptism? Or is John and Mary illicitly the Godparents, since they are on the certificate, participated in the Baptism, even though they are not confirmed? Or, is my nephew baptized, but just lacking Godparents?

Any help and sources that you can provide would be great. Thank you!

 

[Irishmom2]

Who was there with the priest during the baptism?

 

[TheDumbFox]

John, Mary, Richard, and my Nephew along with his parents.

 

[Irishmom2]

I am not sure why they are on the paperwork. If they are not confirmed, they cannot be godparents. I don’t understand how this happened.

 

[TheDumbFox]

I was ill-informed about matter/form/and canon law back then! I would’ve done something. Kinda wacky parish…Its getting better though!

 

[Irishmom2]

It sounds like multiple people dropped the ball on this one. The parents did not choose qualified godparents, the people that were chosen are clueless and the parish must not have asked any questions about the godparents.

Not sure where that leaves your nephew.

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

The problem is, in Canon law, you can only have two Godparents and they both have to be confirmed.

Canon Law says you must have ONE Catholic godparent that meets the criteria spelled out in Canon Law. It doesn’t limit you, so whoever participated is/can be a godparent regardless of certificates or paperwork. If they don’t meet the criteria of “sponsor” (which is the term actually used in the Law), they are witnesses. Again, this distinction is usually only made in the record or per Law, but for the sake of family peace, they can all use the godparent title.

Edit to add: none of this impacts your nephew’s actual sacrament of baptism. Godparents aren’t required for validity.

 

[Phemie]

TheDumbFox:

The problem is, in Canon law, you can only have two Godparents and they both have to be confirmed.

Canon Law says you must have ONE Catholic godparent that meets the criteria spelled out in Canon Law. It doesn’t limit you, so whoever participated is/can be a godparent regardless of certificates or paperwork. If they don’t meet the criteria of “sponsor” (which is the term actually used in the Law), they are witnesses. Again, this distinction is usually only made in the record or per Law, but for the sake of family peace, they can all use the godparent title.

Edit to add: none of this impacts your nephew’s actual sacrament of baptism. Godparents aren’t required for validity.

Actually, Canon Law does limit you. It says that if possible you are to have a sponsor but it also says you may have a maximum of 2, in which case they have to be a man and a woman.

It does happen that we get parents from different cultures who are used to having multiple godparents (10 is not unusual). In that case we tell them that they are free to call anyone they want “godparents” but that the Church recognizes only 2, one man, one woman, and they must decide who of those that meet the Church’s qualifications they wish to have entered into the parish records.

But priests are sometimes funny creatures. I’ve known a family to go to the priest after being told they couldn’t have two godmothers and he said, “no problem” and justified it by “As long as there is one legit it doesn’t matter who the other is.” He also told another family that they could have a non-baptized “godparent” after they had been told that a Christian witness had to be baptized - again, same reason, “As long as one meets the criteria, it doesn’t matter who else is involved.” Sadly, that leaves a legacy that won’t disappear when he leaves the parish.

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

The priest’s justification might be that there’s no mention of a limitation on witnesses. The Canon simply says:

Can. 873 There is to be only one male sponsor or one female sponsor or one of each.

Subsequent Canons mentioning witnesses have no such language about number or gender.

 

[Vico]

…

The sponsor must be so designated and a confirmed Catholic in good standing and practicing. So they can’t be John and Mary. Richard agreed to be a Godparent, but was he designated?

CIC

Can. 874 §1. To be permitted to take on the function of sponsor a person must:
1/ be designated by the one to be baptized, by the parents or the person who takes their place, or in their absence by the pastor or minister and have the aptitude and intention of fulfilling this function;
2/ have completed the sixteenth year of age, unless the diocesan bishop has established another age, or the pastor or minister has granted an exception for a just cause;
3/ be a Catholic who has been confirmed and has already received the most holy sacrament of the Eucharist and who leads a life of faith in keeping with the function to be taken on;
4/ not be bound by any canonical penalty legitimately imposed or declared;
5/ not be the father or mother of the one to be baptized.

 

[TheDumbFox]

It doesn’t seem like Richard was officially designated, as he is not listed on the certificate. But he did participate in the ceremony. But I don’t know what that’s worth if he’s not on the certificate…

 

[Vico]

It doesn’t seem like Richard was officially designated, as he is not listed on the certificate. But he did participate in the ceremony. But I don’t know what that’s worth if he’s not on the certificate…

If he is not designated then he is not a sponsor. There is the possibility that a dispensation was approved by the bishop for John and Mary.

CIC

Can. 877 §1. The pastor of the place where the baptism is celebrated must carefully and without any delay record in the baptismal register the names of the baptized, with mention made of the minister, parents, sponsors, witnesses, if any, the place and date of the conferral of the baptism, and the date and place of birth.

 

[Phemie]

The priest’s justification might be that there’s no mention of a limitation on witnesses. The Canon simply says:

Can. 873 There is to be only one male sponsor or one female sponsor or one of each.

I think it does limit witnesses to one person.
Can.873 §[2] A baptized person who belongs to a non-Catholic ecclesial community is not to participate except together with a Catholic sponsor and then only as a witness of the baptism.

As for the case of two godmothers, they both met the requirements to be sponsors but the grandmother, who did all the arrangements because the mom left it up to her, chose to have the child’s two great-aunts as sponsors and no godfather. Both are recorded and both show up on the certificate.

 

[tuffsmurf]

That doesn’t really leave the nephew anywhere, godparents aren’t an absolute requirement. The boy’s baptism is valid and he has been brought into the Catholic Church.

 

[Irishmom2]

Yes, that’s true. I meant more the issue of the “who are my godparents” question the child will one day ask.

 

[TheDumbFox]

So…John and Mary don’t count, right? Even though they are on the certificate? Could they be legit, just illicit? I know that Richard is out of the picture. I do not believe that there was any dispensation given.

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

But I don’t know what that’s worth if he’s not on the certificate…

I wouldn’t get too hung up on the certificate; it’s the parish record book that matters. They may/may not say the same thing. Either way, at the end of the day, your nephew was baptized and who the actual godparent was doesn’t really have much bearing anymore in the eyes of the Church.

 

[TheDumbFox]

Major Plot Twist.

So We called the parish, and they said that Richard is the only one in the book of records. John and Mary are not in the records, but on the certificate. So…Richard is the legitimate Godfather, since he is in the records and participated in the liturgy?

 

[Irishmom2]

That is correct then. And, that’s a good thing then.

 

[hope]

Canon Law says you must have ONE Catholic godparent that meets the criteria spelled out in Canon Law. It doesn’t limit you, so whoever participated is/can be a godparent regardless of certificates or paperwork. If they don’t meet the criteria of “sponsor” (which is the term actually used in the Law), they are witnesses. Again, this distinction is usually only made in the record or per Law, but for the sake of family peace, they can all use the godparent title.

Edit to add: none of this impacts your nephew’s actual sacrament of baptism. Godparents aren’t required for validity.

You are correct that it does not impact the baptism. You are also correct that there should have be one however there is a limit.
Can. 873 There is to be only one male sponsor or one female sponsor or one of each.