Ah…the great commandment of modern times “Thou shalt not judge”. Ironicly, by someone saying one should not judge someone else (say someone else shouldn’t do something), they contradict themselves.
fix said:
Ellen, you have raised a good point, and one I will address with her. She claims that we have historically “misunderstood”, “mistranslated”, and “misinterpreted” the Bible and therefore have “twisted” view what God really is. Remember that she’s a lesbian now, so of course she goes into a rant about the patristic oppression of women, etc etc. basically she rewrites it all. :banghead:
She believes he was murdered, for no good reason, and that His death was unneccessary: God will save all men because He made us all and He loves us all, regardless of what we do with our lives.
Compared to what?
Now THAT’S funny!
May I suggest that you treat this friend very gently. From what you have written about her, I have the strong sense that you are not going to argue her into the Church. You might be able to love her into the Church, though. I am not a psychologist, but my reading and lectures from experts suggest that some people with her story are in a self-defense type mode. Often (by no means all, I don’t mean to generalize!), they have had trouble with relationships with men, especially their fathers. This interferes with their ability to see God as a loving Father and to accept that He loves them beyond what we could imagine. Be careful with some of the above posts that suggest that her choices are simply selfish or hedonist; failing to respect any pain that she might have experienced will just drive her farther away. I don’t want to go on and on. I just got a picture of her in my head as I read your posts that I wanted to share.
You are very insightful. She was indeed abused as a young girl by male relatives. I do not doubt this is a large part of where she is now. I have complete agreement with not arguing her into the Church. I do want to be able to answer the questions she raises, lovingly.
My answer might be:
God gave man the perfect gift of life, one without pain or death. Man destroyed that bond when he marred it with the blackness of sin. Why would God want to give us anything when we destroyed that beautiful familial bond?
Yet He did. Because He loved us, He kept giving us chances. We were the ones corrupt with sin, murdering one another, destroying what He built. Sacrifices done in faith to God cleansed our sins. Yet the covenant was still broken and only one thing would repair it. In accepting what God asked her, Mary, in perfect obedience, began the process of our final repair to the broken relationship. Jesus, in his perfect sacrifice, finished it. Jesus, the sacrificial lamb, established a new covenant, one in which the gift of the Holy Spirit was given to unite us once again to God. Like blood ties, the Holy Spirit unites us like family. There are no more blood sacrifices after the perfect sacrifice, Jesus. (Note that none of his bones were ever broken, another requisite for a perfect sacrifice).
I think this is the best response to the question I’ve seen. I might add one other thought. Your friend’s comment about a bloodthirsty God also reveals a misunderstanding of the nature of the Trinity. Isn’t it fair to say that our God did not simply demand the death of his Son, but that in fact our God laid down His own life for our salvation, since it is true that we are talking about one God in three Persons, one of whom is the Son, Jesus Christ?
Tempus Fugit Memento Mori
I understand that the reason our God wanted the sacrafice of lamb, calf, etc was because of the golden idols that were made at various times, such as when Moses was on the mount receiving the tablets with the laws on them. It was to show their willingness to give up their idols which were usually a calf or animal of some sort.I have been asked this question by a friend; what she said was, “Why would you want to worship a God who required a blood sacrifice before He granted forgiveness? What sort of a monster God is that?”
I tried to explain about the balance between His perfect love and mercy, and His perfect justice and righteousness, but I bungled it badly.She ended up shaking her head and rolling her eyes. She attends an extremely liberal Episcopalian church that welcomes same sex couples and has a female minister, etc etc.
I’d greatly appreciate any thoughts from the board members.
This friend, by the way, is steeped in mortal sin and could really use prayers from any who are willing. Let’s call her Barb for the purposes of this prayer request.
I think you make a very good point. We always need to be charitable. Certainly, abuse is common in people’s pasts. We should be sensitive to such things. No one can argue anyone into the Church. Only the Holy Spirit can convert a heart.
