Gods "Chosen" People don't have to believe in Christ?

[Chafer_DTS]

Hello-

What does the Catholic faith teach about who the Jewish who do not accept Christ but according to the Bible are “Gods Chosen people”? Do the Jewish people get to go to heaven when they die without knowing Christ? Why do Christian faiths defend Isreal so much? Why do we defend them and not the muslims? Aren’t they the same? They both deny the trinity. Just asking. I keep hearing people talking about isreal being GOD’s chosen people?

All who do not have faith in Jesus remain eternally condemned. John 3:18-19 are clear on this.

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

All who do not have faith in Jesus remain eternally condemned. John 3:18-19 are clear on this.

It really is this simple.

 

[HelenRose]

Hello-

What does the Catholic faith teach about who the Jewish who do not accept Christ but according to the Bible are “Gods Chosen people”? Do the Jewish people get to go to heaven when they die without knowing Christ? Why do Christian faiths defend Isreal so much? Why do we defend them and not the muslims? Aren’t they the same? They both deny the trinity. Just asking. I keep hearing people talking about isreal being GOD’s chosen people?

The reason that a Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist may be attain Heaven are the same for each.

God alone knows the heart of each person.

I suppose that we are more inclined to defend Jews because we do not hear a large number of Jews demanding the destruction of Christians

 

[HelenRose]

All who do not have faith in Jesus remain eternally condemned. John 3:18-19 are clear on this.

This is not the teaching of the Catholic Church.

Catechism of the Catholic Church Page 224
" Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church,but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do His will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation"

God alone knows the heart of each person. He alone is the judge.

 

[YanniP]

Your initial question and title are slightly deceiving. The only chosen people are, formally or imperfectly, in the single Church of Christ, which subsist in the Catholic Church. The Church has usurped the chosen, and there is no group outside of the Church which is chosen. The Church, the True Israel, is the heir of the Old Testament chosen people.
Therefore, the continuity should be noted that it has always been faith, and always Jesus Christ. Therefore, yes, the Chosen must believe in Christ, which includes Jews, Greeks and all men of good will.

 

[teeboy]

This is not the teaching of the Catholic Church.

Catechism of the Catholic Church Page 224
" Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church,but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do His will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation"

God alone knows the heart of each person. He alone is the judge.

How much more will we be rewarded compared to these unbaptised; keeping in mind we practice correctly and repent? A heirarchy exists in heaven. Surely these souls must undergo purification.

 

[HelenRose]

How much more will we be rewarded compared to these unbaptised; keeping in mind we practice correctly and repent? A heirarchy exists in heaven. Surely these souls must undergo purification.

How much more is expected of those who have had the grace to hear and receive His Good News? I will leave this all up to God. I certainly pray that He will have mercy on me - a profound sinner.

 

[thistle]

False.

Pope John Paul II has taught that a person might outwardly reject the Church, and yet still be saved: Redemptoris Missio, n. 10 and All Salvation Comes through Christ, General Audience, 31 May 1995.

The situation is this. Anyone who commits an actual mortal sin AND dies unrepentant will not be saved. It is a dogma of the faith that dying unrepentant from actual mortal sin condemns one to Hell (Council of Lyons II, Council of Florence, Pope Benedict XII on the beatific vision of God).

But committing an objective mortal sin ‘consciously’ does not imply the full knowledge and full deliberation necessary for the sin to be actual mortal sin. Rejecting Christ or His Church with full knowledge of the grave immorality of the act and full deliberation would be an actual mortal sin. But many persons, confused by the false teachings of society and having been raised in a non-Christian religion, might reject Christ and His Church without full knowledge that this rejection is gravely immoral.

Therefore, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, other religions, agnostics and even atheists could possibly be saved without converting to Christianity and without an explicit repentance from the objective sin of rejecting Christianity, if it is not an actual mortal sin.

There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. As it is Jews, Muslims, Buddhists etc are not within the Catholic Church.
Anyone who consciously rejects Christ, his Gospel and his Church will not be saved. Under your thought process Catholics should not bother to evangelise because it doesn’t matter.
You are wrong.

 

[thistle]

Your position on this topic is not in agreement with Church teaching. Islam is not a false religion.

"The Church regards with esteem also the Muslims. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.

“Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Muslims, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom.” (Vatican II, Nostra Aetate, n. 3)

Many Muslims are devout and moderate, not extremists, and they worship God with love, faith, and hope, in a state of grace, and in a way pleasing to God. They certainly can be saved without converting to Christianity.

Islam IS a false religion. It denies Jesus is God and calls on Muslims to kill Jews and Christians because they are enemies.

 

[teeboy]

How much more is expected of those who have had the grace to hear and receive His Good News? I will leave this all up to God. I certainly pray that He will have mercy on me - a profound sinner.

How do we do his will?

Spreading the word?

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

This is not the teaching of the Catholic Church.

Catechism of the Catholic Church Page 224
" Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church,but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do His will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation"

God alone knows the heart of each person. He alone is the judge.

He quoted a verse and you said ‘this is not the teaching of the Catholic Church’

Of course, people who have never heard of Christ could be an exception to the rule, but most of the Jews have heard it. I don’t believe that Pharisaic Judaism is salvific.

Thistle sums it up pretty good:

There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. As it is Jews, Muslims, Buddhists etc are not within the Catholic Church.
Anyone who consciously rejects Christ, his Gospel and his Church will not be saved. Under your thought process Catholics should not bother to evangelise because it doesn’t matter.
You are wrong.

 

[Ron_Conte]

thistle,

You offer no magisterial sources to support your claims. You are contradicting the teaching of the Second Vatican Council, and the teaching of Pope John Paul II.

Islam IS a false religion. It denies Jesus is God and calls on Muslims to kill Jews and Christians because they are enemies.

Only a small percentage of Muslims hold the view that non-Muslims should be killed if they refuse to convert. This extremist version of Islam is not true religion, but neither is it representative of Islam as it is practiced by countless millions. Moderate devout Muslims do not believe in killing Christians and Jews. Their worship of God is true religion, even though they do not realize that Jesus is the Son of God.

Vatican II: “the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohammedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God” (LG 16)

Vatican II: The Church regards with esteem also the Muslims. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting. (NA 3)

The Magisterium teaches that there are three great monotheistic religions in the world: Judaism, Islam, and Christianity.

Pope John Paul II: "Praise to you, followers of Islam in Azerbaijan, for being open to hospitality, a cherished value of your religion and your people, and for having accepted the believers of other religions as brothers and sisters.

"Praise to you, Jewish people, who, with courage and constancy, have kept your ancient traditions of good neighbourliness, enriching this land with a contribution of great value and depth.

“Praise to you, Christians, who have given so much, especially through the ancient Church of the Albans, in shaping the identity of this land. Praise especially to you, Orthodox Church, witness to God’s friendship with man and a hymn extolling his beauty. When the fury of atheism was unleashed in this region, you welcomed the children of the Catholic Church who had lost their places of worship and their pastors, and put them into contact with Christ through the grace of the holy Sacraments.
**
Praised be God for this testimony of love, borne by the three great religions**!” (Source)

Pope Benedict XVI: “Gathered beneath the walls of this city, sacred to the followers of three great religions, how can we not turn our thoughts to Jerusalem’s universal vocation? Heralded by the prophets, this vocation also emerges as an indisputable fact, a reality irrevocably grounded in the complex history of this city and its people. Jews, Muslims and Christians alike call this city their spiritual home.” (Source)

 

[Ron_Conte]

There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. As it is Jews, Muslims, Buddhists etc are not within the Catholic Church. Anyone who consciously rejects Christ, his Gospel and his Church will not be saved. Under your thought process Catholics should not bother to evangelise because it doesn’t matter. You are wrong.

While it is true that there is no salvation outside the Church, persons who are not formal members of the Church can be saved by being mystical (non-formal) members. The Church teaches that they can attain to the state of grace by a Baptism of desire. And if their outward rejection of the Church is not an actual mortal sin, then they remain in that state of grace. Therefore, non-Christians who outwardly reject the Church can still be saved, just as Blessed Pope John Paul II taught:

'Since Christ brings about salvation through his Mystical Body, which is the Church, the way of salvation is connected essentially with the Church. The axiom extra ecclesiam nulla salus"–“outside the Church there is no salvation”–stated by St. Cyprian (Epist. 73, 21; PL 1123 AB), belongs to the Christian tradition. It was included in the Fourth Lateran Council (DS 802), in the Bull Unam Sanctam of Boniface VIII (DS 870) and the Council of Florence (Decretum pro Jacobitis, DS 1351). The axiom means that for those who are not ignorant of the fact that the Church has been established as necessary by God through Jesus Christ, there is an obligation to enter the Church and remain in her in order to attain salvation (cf. LG 14). For those, however, who have not received the Gospel proclamation, as I wrote in the Encyclical Redemptoris Missio, salvation is accessible in mysterious ways, inasmuch as divine grace is granted to them by virtue of Christ’s redeeming sacrifice, without external membership in the Church, but nonetheless always in relation to her (cf. RM 10).** It is a mysterious relationship. It is mysterious for those who receive the grace, because they do not know the Church and sometimes even outwardly reject her.** It is also mysterious in itself, because it is linked to the saving mystery of grace, which includes an essential reference to the Church the Savior founded.

‘In order to take effect, saving grace requires acceptance, cooperation, a yes to the divine gift. This acceptance is, at least implicitly, oriented to Christ and the Church. Thus it can also be said that sine ecclesia nulla salus–“without the Church there is no salvation.” Belonging to the Church, the Mystical Body of Christ, however implicitly and indeed mysteriously, is an essential condition for salvation.’ (Source)

thistle, you are contradicting the teaching of Pope John Paul II and you are misrepresenting the teaching that outside the Church, there is no salvation. For those who know of the Church, they have a moral obligation to enter the Church by baptism. To refuse to do so is objectively a mortal sin. But it might not be an actual mortal sin, if the person does not realize that the Catholic Church is the Ark of salvation, that Jesus is the Son of God, and that the Gospel is the truth of Divine Revelation.

A person who grows up in a Jewish or Muslim family and society, who is surrounded by persons who are non-Christian, might not realize that the Catholic Faith is the truest form of religion. Being fallen sinners in a fallen world, influenced by other sinners, it can easily happen that a Jew or Muslim or other believer does not realize that Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of the world. So they do not commit an actual mortal sin by rejecting Christ and His Church, and therefore they may still be saved.

They become mystical members of the Church by a Baptism of desire. They might not lose the state of grace provided by that Baptism by actual mortal sin. And so they can die in a state of grace and be saved.

By loving truth and justice and their neighbor, a non-Christian, even an atheist or agnostic, can attain to a state of grace and be saved, despite the objective mortal sin of rejecting religion or rejecting the Christian religion.

An act of love is sufficient for the adult to obtain sanctifying grace and to supply the lack of baptism.

 

[JillianRose]

While it is true that there is no salvation outside the Church, persons who are not formal members of the Church can be saved by being mystical (non-formal) members. The Church teaches that they can attain to the state of grace by a Baptism of desire. And if their outward rejection of the Church is not an actual mortal sin, then they remain in that state of grace. Therefore, non-Christians who outwardly reject the Church can still be saved, just as Blessed Pope John Paul II taught:

'Since Christ brings about salvation through his Mystical Body, which is the Church, the way of salvation is connected essentially with the Church. The axiom extra ecclesiam nulla salus"–“outside the Church there is no salvation”–stated by St. Cyprian (Epist. 73, 21; PL 1123 AB), belongs to the Christian tradition. It was included in the Fourth Lateran Council (DS 802), in the Bull Unam Sanctam of Boniface VIII (DS 870) and the Council of Florence (Decretum pro Jacobitis, DS 1351). The axiom means that for those who are not ignorant of the fact that the Church has been established as necessary by God through Jesus Christ, there is an obligation to enter the Church and remain in her in order to attain salvation (cf. LG 14). For those, however, who have not received the Gospel proclamation, as I wrote in the Encyclical Redemptoris Missio, salvation is accessible in mysterious ways, inasmuch as divine grace is granted to them by virtue of Christ’s redeeming sacrifice, without external membership in the Church, but nonetheless always in relation to her (cf. RM 10).** It is a mysterious relationship. It is mysterious for those who receive the grace, because they do not know the Church and sometimes even outwardly reject her.** It is also mysterious in itself, because it is linked to the saving mystery of grace, which includes an essential reference to the Church the Savior founded.

‘In order to take effect, saving grace requires acceptance, cooperation, a yes to the divine gift. This acceptance is, at least implicitly, oriented to Christ and the Church. Thus it can also be said that sine ecclesia nulla salus–“without the Church there is no salvation.” Belonging to the Church, the Mystical Body of Christ, however implicitly and indeed mysteriously, is an essential condition for salvation.’ (Source)

thistle, you are contradicting the teaching of Pope John Paul II and you are misrepresenting the teaching that outside the Church, there is no salvation. For those who know of the Church, they have a moral obligation to enter the Church by baptism. To refuse to do so is objectively a mortal sin. But it might not be an actual mortal sin, if the person does not realize that the Catholic Church is the Ark of salvation, that Jesus is the Son of God, and that the Gospel is the truth of Divine Revelation.

A person who grows up in a Jewish or Muslim family and society, who is surrounded by persons who are non-Christian, might not realize that the Catholic Faith is the truest form of religion. Being fallen sinners in a fallen world, influenced by other sinners, it can easily happen that a Jew or Muslim or other believer does not realize that Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of the world. So they do not commit an actual mortal sin by rejecting Christ and His Church, and therefore they may still be saved.

They become mystical members of the Church by a Baptism of desire. They might not lose the state of grace provided by that Baptism by actual mortal sin. And so they can die in a state of grace and be saved.

By loving truth and justice and their neighbor, a non-Christian, even an atheist or agnostic, can attain to a state of grace and be saved, despite the objective mortal sin of rejecting religion or rejecting the Christian religion.

An act of love is sufficient for the adult to obtain sanctifying grace and to supply the lack of baptism.

See and this is where I have a problem. Rejection of CHRIST is not a state of grace regardless of baptism.

 

[JillianRose]

While it is true that there is no salvation outside the Church, persons who are not formal members of the Church can be saved by being mystical (non-formal) members. The Church teaches that they can attain to the state of grace by a Baptism of desire. And if their outward rejection of the Church is not an actual mortal sin, then they remain in that state of grace. Therefore, non-Christians who outwardly reject the Church can still be saved, just as Blessed Pope John Paul II taught:

'Since Christ brings about salvation through his Mystical Body, which is the Church, the way of salvation is connected essentially with the Church. The axiom extra ecclesiam nulla salus"–“outside the Church there is no salvation”–stated by St. Cyprian (Epist. 73, 21; PL 1123 AB), belongs to the Christian tradition. It was included in the Fourth Lateran Council (DS 802), in the Bull Unam Sanctam of Boniface VIII (DS 870) and the Council of Florence (Decretum pro Jacobitis, DS 1351). The axiom means that for those who are not ignorant of the fact that the Church has been established as necessary by God through Jesus Christ, there is an obligation to enter the Church and remain in her in order to attain salvation (cf. LG 14). For those, however, who have not received the Gospel proclamation, as I wrote in the Encyclical Redemptoris Missio, salvation is accessible in mysterious ways, inasmuch as divine grace is granted to them by virtue of Christ’s redeeming sacrifice, without external membership in the Church, but nonetheless always in relation to her (cf. RM 10).** It is a mysterious relationship. It is mysterious for those who receive the grace, because they do not know the Church and sometimes even outwardly reject her.** It is also mysterious in itself, because it is linked to the saving mystery of grace, which includes an essential reference to the Church the Savior founded.

‘In order to take effect, saving grace requires acceptance, cooperation, a yes to the divine gift. This acceptance is, at least implicitly, oriented to Christ and the Church. Thus it can also be said that sine ecclesia nulla salus–“without the Church there is no salvation.” Belonging to the Church, the Mystical Body of Christ, however implicitly and indeed mysteriously, is an essential condition for salvation.’ (Source)

thistle, you are contradicting the teaching of Pope John Paul II and you are misrepresenting the teaching that outside the Church, there is no salvation. For those who know of the Church, they have a moral obligation to enter the Church by baptism. To refuse to do so is objectively a mortal sin. But it might not be an actual mortal sin, if the person does not realize that the Catholic Church is the Ark of salvation, that Jesus is the Son of God, and that the Gospel is the truth of Divine Revelation.

A person who grows up in a Jewish or Muslim family and society, who is surrounded by persons who are non-Christian, might not realize that the Catholic Faith is the truest form of religion. Being fallen sinners in a fallen world, influenced by other sinners, it can easily happen that a Jew or Muslim or other believer does not realize that Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of the world. So they do not commit an actual mortal sin by rejecting Christ and His Church, and therefore they may still be saved.

They become mystical members of the Church by a Baptism of desire. They might not lose the state of grace provided by that Baptism by actual mortal sin. And so they can die in a state of grace and be saved.

By loving truth and justice and their neighbor, a non-Christian, even an atheist or agnostic, can attain to a state of grace and be saved, despite the objective mortal sin of rejecting religion or rejecting the Christian religion.

An act of love is sufficient for the adult to obtain sanctifying grace and to supply the lack of baptism.

If it were not for Christ their would be not Salvation to offer from the Catholic Church. Thats why other Christians are not in perfect communion but can still be saved because the main means of salvation is thru CHRIST. I do not agree that other non christian faiths, or cults that out right regect Christ can go to heaven just because the were baptised or because they have respect for the Catholic Church. That would contradict EVERYTHING Jesus says in the Bible. What would be the point? HELL is real. People need to accept that.

 

[gus]

Why did so many first century Jews become Christain.
Were they mistaken?

 

[fhansen]

Hello-

What does the Catholic faith teach about who the Jewish who do not accept Christ but according to the Bible are “Gods Chosen people”? Do the Jewish people get to go to heaven when they die without knowing Christ? Why do Christian faiths defend Isreal so much? Why do we defend them and not the muslims? Aren’t they the same? They both deny the trinity. Just asking. I keep hearing people talking about isreal being GOD’s chosen people?

No Jewish person automatically goes to heaven; they’re judged by God according to how they live their lives, just like the rest of us. The nation of Israel was chosen for a specific purpose; to bring the Savior of the world to mankind; that’s what their “chosenness” is for, other viewpoints notwithstanding, although they’ll always have a special place in Gods eyes according to scripture, and so they should in our eyes as well.