Gods Chosen People?

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Does the Catholic Church teach that the jews of today are still God’s “chose people” or has there been a “transference” to Christians?
 
The Church teaches that the Jews are still “God’s Chosen People”.
**4. As the sacred synod searches into the mystery of the Church, it remembers the bond that spiritually ties the people of the New Covenant to Abraham’s stock. **
**Thus the Church of Christ acknowledges that, according to God’s saving design, the beginnings of her faith and her election are found already among the Patriarchs, Moses and the prophets. She professes that all who believe in Christ-Abraham’s sons according to faith (6)-are included in the same Patriarch’s call, and likewise that the salvation of the Church is mysteriously foreshadowed by the chosen people’s exodus from the land of bondage. The Church, therefore, cannot forget that she received the revelation of the Old Testament through the people with whom God in His inexpressible mercy concluded the Ancient Covenant. Nor can she forget that she draws sustenance from the root of that well-cultivated olive tree onto which have been grafted the wild shoots, the Gentiles.(7) Indeed, the Church believes that by His cross Christ, Our Peace, reconciled Jews and Gentiles. making both one in Himself.(8) **

**The Church keeps ever in mind the words of the Apostle about his kinsmen: “theirs is the sonship and the glory and the covenants and the law and the worship and the promises; theirs are the fathers and from them is the Christ according to the flesh” (Rom. 9:4-5), the Son of the Virgin Mary. She also recalls that the Apostles, the Church’s main-stay and pillars, as well as most of the early disciples who proclaimed Christ’s Gospel to the world, sprang from the Jewish people. **

**As Holy Scripture testifies, Jerusalem did not recognize the time of her visitation,(9) nor did the Jews in large number, accept the Gospel; indeed not a few opposed its spreading.(10) Nevertheless, God holds the Jews most dear for the sake of their Fathers; He does not repent of the gifts He makes or of the calls He issues-such is the witness of the Apostle.(11) In company with the Prophets and the same Apostle, the Church awaits that day, known to God alone, on which all peoples will address the Lord in a single voice and “serve him shoulder to shoulder” (Soph. 3:9).(12) **

**Since the spiritual patrimony common to Christians and Jews is thus so great, this sacred synod wants to foster and recommend that mutual understanding and respect which is the fruit, above all, of biblical and theological studies as well as of fraternal dialogues. **

**True, the Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ;(13) still, what happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today. Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures. All should see to it, then, that in catechetical work or in the preaching of the word of God they do not teach anything that does not conform to the truth of the Gospel and the spirit of Christ. **

**Furthermore, in her rejection of every persecution against any man, the Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel’s spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone. **

Besides, as the Church has always held and holds now, Christ underwent His passion and death freely, because of the sins of men and out of infinite love, in order that all may reach salvation. It is, therefore, the burden of the Church’s preaching to proclaim the cross of Christ as the sign of God’s all-embracing love and as the fountain from which every grace flows.
NOSTRA AETATEhttp://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_...ts/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html
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They are still God’s chosen people. However, God does not reside in this time and space as we do. He sees in a different way. For example, he still sees his only son hanging on a cross.

Yes, they are the chosen people! The jews that are with us today have rejected him though. If we can help these jews see our point of view and consider Jesus as the savior, I believe God would be pleased. We would be reaching out to his first chosen people.

We have the better part of the debate too. The books of Daniel, Mica, and others predict the coming of the messiah. I have been told even the year can be deduced from these books of sacred scripture. I admit, I have not checked into this yet.

Supposedly, the Talmud admits to this point and laments the time of the messiah has passed. Perhaps getting a jewish friend to review this excerpt would be a starting point.
 
“the Church is the new people of God” Nostra Aetate

Christians are chosen:

1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen people, (Is 43.20)
a royal priesthood, a holy nation, (Ex 19.6)
a people for his own possession, (Ex 19.5)
that you may proclaim the excellencies of him
who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us
in him before the foundation of the world,
that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Revelation 17:14
These shall make war with the Lamb,
and the Lamb shall overcome them:
for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings:
and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

phrase ‘chosen people’ is only mentioned 2x in the OT (as far as I searched): in Is 43:20 and Dan 11:15
 
rskempf said:
Yes, they are the chosen people! The jews that are with us today have rejected him though. If we can help these jews see our point of view and consider Jesus as the savior, I believe God would be pleased. We would be reaching out to his first chosen people.

We have the better part of the debate too. The books of Daniel, Mica, and others predict the coming of the messiah. I have been told even the year can be deduced from these books of sacred scripture. I admit, I have not checked into this yet.

Supposedly, the Talmud admits to this point and laments the time of the messiah has passed. Perhaps getting a jewish friend to review this excerpt would be a starting point.
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Some people have interpreted the “weeks” in Daniel in ways that have given them particular “dates” for the coming of the Messiah, or for the Second Coming. But these are just human interpretations and are the sorts of things that leave people standing on hilltops waiting for the event that they were sure was last night. . . . Jesus said “no one knows the time.” I have not heard any reference to any statement of the Talmud about the time of the Messiah passing, and of course the Talmud is not considered inspired anyway so I don’t think reading such a passage would convict anyone, any more than we change our beliefs based on the musings of the Early Church Fathers about the Second Coming.
John7 said:
“the Church is the new people of God” Nostra Aetate

Christians are chosen:

phrase ‘chosen people’ is only mentioned 2x in the OT (as far as I searched): in Is 43:20 and Dan 11:15
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St. Paul explores this question at some length in Romans (chapters 9-11). Christians have been “grafted on” to the Chosen People - we are all now “children of Abraham.” The Old Covenant is not revoked, it is fulfilled (Matt. 5:17).
 
To NHInsider,

Jesus said no one would know the time of the second coming. I am referring to the first coming - the incarnation of our Lord.

Why did the Jews miss it?
  • most wanted a political king and savior;
  • many did not miss it and converted to the new convenant - christianity;
Today we only see the remnant that refuses to admit Jesus is the messiah. It has been almost 2000 years now. How long will they wait? Events in the O.T. moved faster than this afterall.
 
NHInsider said:
St. Paul explores this question at some length in Romans (chapters 9-11). Christians have been “grafted on” to the Chosen People - we are all now “children of Abraham.” The Old Covenant is not revoked, it is fulfilled (Matt. 5:17).
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Exactly 🙂

Blessings,

Brian
 
NHInsider said:
St. Paul explores this question at some length in Romans (chapters 9-11). Christians have been “grafted on” to the Chosen People - we are all now “children of Abraham.” The Old Covenant is not revoked, it is fulfilled (Matt. 5:17).
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“Gentiles” have been grafted on with the remnant of Israel(chosen people-believers of Jesus as the Son of God, etc.) and are one in Christ to make up the Church. And there will be a time coming when a number of hardened, broken off Israel will be saved when Jesus Christ comes back to Israel(Romans11:25-27).

All Christians are children of Abraham, but lets not forget about Isaac and Jacob also.
 
rskempf said:
To NHInsider,

Jesus said no one would know the time of the second coming. I am referring to the first coming - the incarnation of our Lord.

Why did the Jews miss it?
  • most wanted a political king and savior;
  • many did not miss it and converted to the new convenant - christianity;
Today we only see the remnant that refuses to admit Jesus is the messiah. It has been almost 2000 years now. How long will they wait? Events in the O.T. moved faster than this afterall.
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aish.com/atr/84010592.html

Y6K is the final date that the Moshiach can come.(about 240 years)!
 
Pwrlftr said:
What do you believe the status of the Old Covenant to be?
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sorry? Not sure I understand the question.

Jesus said He had come not to destroy the Law or the Prophets but to fulfill them. So, the Sacrifices of the Old Covenant are fulfilled in the One Sacrifice which they always pointed to and from which they attained the merits of forgiveness for the faithful (Hebrews 10). The commandments given by the hand of God on Sinai are fulfilled in those who live as the Living Word commanded. (Matt. 22:40). The cry of the prophets of the Old Covenant are echoed in the Beatitudes and the Matthew 25 Judgement scene.

The Old Covenant is not so much replaced as it is absorbed.

Does that clarify?
 
NHInsider said:
sorry? Not sure I understand the question.

Jesus said He had come not to destroy the Law or the Prophets but to fulfill them. So, the Sacrifices of the Old Covenant are fulfilled in the One Sacrifice which they always pointed to and from which they attained the merits of forgiveness for the faithful (Hebrews 10). The commandments given by the hand of God on Sinai are fulfilled in those who live as the Living Word commanded. (Matt. 22:40). The cry of the prophets of the Old Covenant are echoed in the Beatitudes and the Matthew 25 Judgement scene.

The Old Covenant is not so much replaced as it is absorbed.

Does that clarify?
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I suppose what I was trying to ask, and doing a poor job of it, is do you believe that Old Covenant (the Mosaic Covenant) still has any legal validity for the Jews or anyone else for that matter?
 
Why would God break a covenant? Why would anyone take his word seriously again if he was breaking his word all the time?
 
Pwrlftr said:
God didn’t break a covenant. Why do you ask about breaking a covenant?
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If the Jews were no longer the chosen people of your God, then he would have broken his word, by breaking his covenant. Since you agree he did not break a covenant, looks like the OP has his answer.
 
StrawberryJam said:
If the Jews were no longer the chosen people of your God, then he would have broken his word, by breaking his covenant. Since you agree he did not break a covenant, looks like the OP has his answer.
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First, I haven’t said anything one way or the other concerning what I believe about the chosen people.

Anyway, covenants can have terms and conditions. In this case, the Old Covenant was dependent upon Israel’s obedience. So, in short, God did not break the coveneant.
 
Pwrlftr said:
First, I haven’t said anything one way or the other concerning what I believe about the chosen people.

Anyway, covenants can have terms and conditions. In this case, the Old Covenant was dependent upon Israel’s obedience. So, in short, God did not break the coveneant.
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Wuh? What is the purpose of a covenant then? Just call it a contract.
 
Pwrlftr said:
Okay, call it a contract.
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Didn’t the Jews dissapoint him over and over again before the contract was even offered? He knew their number. Just like the mortgage companies who offered loans to people that they knew could not pay.
 
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