God's existence

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(I refuse to call them “theories” as I believe that would be demeaning to the word as it is used in good science.)
Correct, as I can testify as a scientist. Problem is, most atheists are quick to view anything as ‘scientific evidence’ that speaks to their preconceived biases.

(Boy, I really must have a grumpy day – but I am right.)
 
Well, two thoughts here. The first being that the physicist Lawrence Krauss has written a book (helpfully titled “A Universe from Nothing”) that discusses how the Universe could’ve come from nothing. He also has multiple lectures on youtube that are easy to find where he explains the ideas.
ASimon:

I have read a good portion of Krauss and watched probably all of his youtube lectures. He never loses the presupposition that “nothing = something.” I cannot think of a single instance where he gets the idea of real nothingness right. Therefore, he always argues against a straw man.
The second thought is that you can grant a Prime Mover deity who created the Universe, call him “God,” stipulate that this Prime Mover doesn’t need a cause for himself, if all that makes more sense to you than just a Universe from nothing.
You most certainly can. If there is a new piece of furniture in my living room, I may postulate with an extraordinary degree of certainty that either I put it there, or someone else put it there. I can most certainly come to the conclusion that it did not form itself.
But I won’t neglect to mention, the reason this is problematic for the Christian (or any theist), is that you have all your work still in front of you to find equally credible reasons to believe that this God knows you’re here, cares about you at all, has certain rules he’d like you to follow, and punishes/rewards people whether you do or not.
Interesting. I wonder how the Jews of 3,500 hundred years ago knew those things.
You need to presuppose a ton of conditions in order to get from a Prime Mover God to anything like the Christian God.
Not so. If it were, then primitive man could never have arrived at that conclusion. Particularly from primitive man’s total state of insipidness. 🙂
The fact is, deism isn’t that insane. It does appeal to our basic intuitions that something had to come from something.
That is precisely what the theist is talking about: that all of reality sprang from nothing is not intuitive.
There’s just as little evidence for a Prime Mover as there is for a Christian God, but the upside is, nothing about my life changes if the Prime Mover actually does exist.
Then you are probably well equipped to show us where the motion of immobile reality began. :whistle:

jd
 
To me the brain is a very strong argument for God. He made us in His image. Our brains are extremely complex, modern science has barely scratched the surface on all of it’s intricacies. In my opinion it’s not a evolutionary miracle to have the sophisticated brain that we do.
Be careful. This is a classic God of the Gap argument. Science cannot currently explain the brain therefore a god (presumably your god) must have made it. Lets give science a few more centuries before we dismiss it.
 
Be careful. This is a classic God of the Gap argument. Science cannot currently explain the brain therefore a god (presumably your god) must have made it. Lets give science a few more centuries before we dismiss it.
I don’t dismiss science, in fact I embrace it.
 
Be careful. This is a classic God of the Gap argument. Science cannot currently explain the brain therefore a god (presumably your god) must have made it. Lets give science a few more centuries before we dismiss it.
Sure, the brain evolved, and yes, claiming otherwise is a classic God of the Gap argument. I agree.
 
ASimon:

I have read a good portion of Krauss and watched probably all of his youtube lectures. He never loses the presupposition that “nothing = something.” I cannot think of a single instance where he gets the idea of real nothingness right. Therefore, he always argues against a straw man.

Then you are probably well equipped to show us where the motion of immobile reality began. :whistle:

jd
I second JD. After watching the video, it seems like he is trying to provide an illusion that what we presumed to be nothing is nothing when something much smaller or different than what we presumed to be matter is there. Where do laws of nature come from? Nothing is nothing…as in the absence of everything, including any form of ray, gravity, shape, and law…anything. You can’t have laws of nothing because that means that there are no laws…Laws are indeed something, as they dictate how things act and interact, so either the laws of nature are “formed” by this dark matter which also controls dark matter itself (kind of contradicting itself, I think), the laws are entirely random, or the laws existed before dark matter, which is presumed to be eternal(?) …which leads to another question.

So if the energy of the big bang formed from dark energy and matter, which is infinite, then infinity would have to expand, contract, or remain constant. Obviously it would have to remain constant, but then it would still have to make up 100% of the universe; not the 80 or 70 percent that he said in the video. Unless, of course, dark energy is constantly creating more of its infinite self. What I mean is: if you have infinity you can’t add or subtract from infinity and get rational or real number ( I haven’t taken calculus in a while, so I am not entirely sure if that was the rule), so if it was 100% of infinity, and then and additional 20 percent was created in the form of actual matter, did the dark energy create additional energy i.e. energy was created? Or did the new energy form from condensed dark energy i.e. infinity would contract. If there is a physicist here, feel free to correct me. I haven’t taken any advanced physics and am just using logic (which, I admit, could be faulty)

Also, I presume that it can’t still be 100% dark matter because if it were the experiment would pick it up instantaneously, so that can’t be it either ( I don’t think).

I am not trying to sound rude or anything; I am just discussing the video (sorry, I know it is a little bit off topic).

Last thing, if I understood his explanation of dark energy, it is the negative energy caused by gravity, which makes our system 0 energy, but then where did the positive energy come from before there was positive matter (which are the planets, stars etc.)? Was it entirely negative before it was positive? Where did energy come from? Or was there no energy before gravity? Okay, I think I am confusing myself now and making myself look like an idiot, so I am going to go and re-watch the video to make sure I understood it.
 
Science…father of the big bang theory, Jesuit Priest. Father of genetics, Jesuit Priest… The University system… try again. 👍
 
In addition, if life emerged elsewhere in the universe, that would indicate that life is a product of a mere chemical/physical process rather than one emerging from divine will. It wouldn’t counter the atheistic argument of cosmic luck at all; quite to the contrary, it would strengthen the atheistic argument more - it would indicate that the probabilities were higher than we esteemed it to be, and therefore we human beings aren’t so special as we like to believe we are, or as revelation scriptures purport to be.
Well, at least we can agree on something: we both will cheer when extraterrestial life is found. I expect this, see also my article on the origin of life by natural causes for the evolution website Talkorigins.org:

talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/originoflife.html

So if you think that that event would speak in favor of atheism, think twice. Unless you automatically conflate natural causes with “godless” causes. But this is a philosophical view, not a scientific one. Not just that, it is a highly debatable philosophical view.
 
I just noticed that I forgot to add my last point: space is not nothing. Space exists and therefore is something. Nothing, as in true nothingness, is nonexistence. Space, dark energy, dark matter, all exist, and therefore are something. So I guess Krauss really proves absolutely nothing, no pun intended. The real question they have to answer is how existence came from nonexistence. God is eternal, but the point remains that He is outside of material nature, and what they say has properties (energy) that all things have. So there is the question I propose: how did existence spring from nonexistence.
 
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