God's Foreknowledge

[joshrp]

Hi,

This is something that I’ve thought about for a while, I used to be obsessed with it, but have kind of put it in the back of my mind. Now that I’ve found Catholic Answers Forums, I thought I’d ask about it.

Does God foresee everything that we are going to do, and choose, and everything that is going to result from our actions? I’d assume He does, since He has perfect wisdom and knowledge. I don’t see this as conflicting with free will though. Even if God knows what I am going to do, it is still I who choose to do it. This is an argument from St. Augustine’s City of God. I mainly want to ask about this because I have a friend who is pretty much an atheist, who believes that everything is fated. He doesn’t understand prayer because He believes that if God did exist (which he doesn’t believe He does), then He already knows what He is going to do, or what we are going to do. I believe that there are some things that God does not do unless in answer to prayer.

Please pray for my atheist friend, whose name is Andrew, that he may come to know Jesus. I got him a Bible for his birthday a couple years ago. I don’t know if he has read it though. I haven’t been able to talk to him for awhile.

Joshua

 

[JohnDamian]

God does know every free choice we will make.

However; God’s knowlege does not cause us to make those choices; as there is no causal necessity. We make those choices freely.

We freely choose to pray; even if God knows in advance that we will pray. God does not cause us to pray; we cause ourselves to pray; and God knows of our prayers before we even say them.

 

[Robert_Sock]

God does know every free choice we will make.

However; God’s knowlege does not cause us to make those choices; as there is no causal necessity. We make those choices freely.

We freely choose to pray; even if God knows in advance that we will pray. God does not cause us to pray; we cause ourselves to pray; and God knows of our prayers before we even say them.

Did God know that Adam and Eve would sin before he created them?

Did God know that He would someday be sorry for His having created the world?

 

[JohnDamian]

Did God know that Adam and Eve would sin before he created them?

Yes.

Did God know that He would someday be sorry for His having created the world?

I don’t know if God is sorry for creating this world, has been sorry for creating this world or will be sorry for creating this world; so I cannot answer this. What I can say however is; if God was to be; has been; or is; sorry for creating this world; he would have known this before he created it.

 

[Scoobyshme]

Hi,

This is something that I’ve thought about for a while, I used to be obsessed with it, but have kind of put it in the back of my mind. Now that I’ve found Catholic Answers Forums, I thought I’d ask about it.

Does God foresee everything that we are going to do, and choose, and everything that is going to result from our actions? I’d assume He does, since He has perfect wisdom and knowledge. I don’t see this as conflicting with free will though. Even if God knows what I am going to do, it is still I who choose to do it. This is an argument from St. Augustine’s City of God. I mainly want to ask about this because I have a friend who is pretty much an atheist, who believes that everything is fated. He doesn’t understand prayer because He believes that if God did exist (which he doesn’t believe He does), then He already knows what He is going to do, or what we are going to do. I believe that there are some things that God does not do unless in answer to prayer.

Please pray for my atheist friend, whose name is Andrew, that he may come to know Jesus. I got him a Bible for his birthday a couple years ago. I don’t know if he has read it though. I haven’t been able to talk to him for awhile.

Joshua

It would probably be accurate to say that God does not “foresee” everything we do, but “sees” everything we do. He is outside of time and does not live “moment to moment” like we do. He is simultaneously in the past, present, and future, and sees all of it like we see the present moment. So, at this moment (our perspective) He sees our entire lives from conception to death. He sees every choice we make and the ramifications of all of it.

That does not, however, in any way, affect our free will choice. We still make the choices ourselves.

You may find Dr. Peter Kreeft’s talk on this interesting:

alabamacatholicresources.com/Downloads/peter-kreeft_fated-free.mp3

 

[AndyF]

Joshua:

I believe our choices can interrupt God’s prediction and this he wills for the betterment of the individual. He may foresee a choice of error, but allow for the odds to be tipped for a positive outcome. In this way a person can indeed change his mind and make a difference and choose God’s friendship. In this way pleasant surprises make for a good day for our Lord.

Our whole experience in our journey of Faith is filled with examples of attempts to persuade us to do the unlikely and to dare turn back from bad choices. To what extent would God persuade us to do something different.? He would even go has far has a public sacrifice of his only son for our redemption. This same son who time and again would persuade his Father to spare the axe one more time in hopes the tree will bare fruit.

We are invited to play the odds in our favor, to gamble on the sure thing, a friendship and trust in God wins the pot. He waits for pleasant surprises.

AndyF

 

[JDaniel]

Hi,

This is something that I’ve thought about for a while, I used to be obsessed with it, but have kind of put it in the back of my mind. Now that I’ve found Catholic Answers Forums, I thought I’d ask about it.

Does God foresee everything that we are going to do, and choose, and everything that is going to result from our actions? I’d assume He does, since He has perfect wisdom and knowledge. I don’t see this as conflicting with free will though. Even if God knows what I am going to do, it is still I who choose to do it. This is an argument from St. Augustine’s City of God. I mainly want to ask about this because I have a friend who is pretty much an atheist, who believes that everything is fated. He doesn’t understand prayer because He believes that if God did exist (which he doesn’t believe He does), then He already knows what He is going to do, or what we are going to do. I believe that there are some things that God does not do unless in answer to prayer.

Please pray for my atheist friend, whose name is Andrew, that he may come to know Jesus. I got him a Bible for his birthday a couple years ago. I don’t know if he has read it though. I haven’t been able to talk to him for awhile.

Joshua

Welcome, Joshua, to CAF!

What many seem to forget is that God’s so-called foreknowledge is the direct result of his NOT being in TIME His relationship with the universe is brief, where He is concerned, but ours is lengthy where we are concerned. Since he is not a part of time he can be seen to “see” EVERYTHING simultaneously, however, to us, it is still passing.

It is almost impossible to understand this. And, any and all analogies very poorly convey the matter. The process of coming-to-be for us is time-sequential, but, for God, it is a Now. The Point in time where we are right now is a segment, so to speak, of God’s Now. It’s not as though it has already happened and we’ve been left in the dust. If we are here and alive, we are still in a segment of God’s Now.

So, things are not fated, per se; and, our Free decisions are still apropos. They are FREE DECISIONS! We’d best not screw up! Also, I have decided to go to confession as often as possible (once a week) as I don’t really relish spending any more of my spiritual life than I have to in purgatory - getting rid of those pesky venial sins.

God bless,
jd

 

[JDaniel]

Did God know that Adam and Eve would sin before he created them?

Did God know that He would someday be sorry for His having created the world?

Robert:

Are you sure you’re Catholic? I don’t feel that you are - no insult intended. A Catholic would know that there is NO “before” for God.

God bless,
jd

 

[Robert_Sock]

Robert:

Are you sure you’re Catholic? I don’t feel that you are - no insult intended. A Catholic would know that there is NO “before” for God.

God bless,
jd

Are you saying that Adam and Eve were always created? Read my post again and show be where I implied that God has a beginning or end. Certainly you believe in the six days of creation!!!

 

[JDaniel]

Are you saying that Adam and Eve were always created? Read my post again and show be where I implied that God has a beginning or end. Certainly you believe in the six days of creation!!!

Robert:

Respectfully, here is the quote: “Did God know that Adam and Eve would sin before he created them?” (See bolded word.)

I believe in the 6 days of creation - FOR US. For God, it is simply the ongoing exercise of His Omnipotence.

God bless,
jd

 

[Robert_Sock]

Robert:

Respectfully, here is the quote: "Did God know that Adam and Eve would sin before he created them?" (See bolded word.)

I believe in the 6 days of creation - FOR US. For God, it is simply the ongoing exercise of His Omnipotence.

God bless,
jd

I honestly don’t see your point. Adam and Eve were created by God at some point in earthly time even though He is Omnipotent. I never meant to imply that God was not Omnipotent.

Let me rephrase it: Did God know that Adam and Eve would sin?

 

[JDaniel]

I honestly don’t see your point. Adam and Eve were created by God at some point in earthly time even though He is Omnipotent. I never meant to imply that God was not Omnipotent.

Let me rephrase it: Did God know that Adam and Eve would sin?

Robert:

“Simultaneously,” would be a somewhat better answer. (I told you this was tough to explain, not to mention, comprehend! )

I’m guessing you want to extrapolate on that question?

Whew! Sorry! It’s not as though God sat and ruminated about what would happen to Adam and Eve. That’s my point, I guess.

God bless,
jd