God's gift of sexuality - a curse to those who cannot use it?

[CarolAnnSFO]

No, no, I’m not flaming you. These are legitimate questions I know. Questions I struggle with every day.

I take it the SFO signifies that you have taken some sort of vow to a religious order? Priests, through the confessional, at least get a glimpse of the truths of married life. I would probably guess that if a priest ever feels like he’s made the wrong decision with celebacy - all he needs to do is hear confessions for an hour and that will cure him for the week!

Yes, the “SFO” stands for Secular Franciscan Order. This is an order of lay people, so you do not have to be single – many married people are professed. Of course, we all must practice chastity as appropriate to our state in life.

I would imagine a priest in the confessional has heard everything I can think of, and quite a few things I can’t imagine.

The priest has another advantage – the graces conferred by the sacrament of Ordination. Profession into a lay order is not a sacrament, but perhaps it comes with its own graces.

 

[PennitentMan]

(I hope it is OK to post this here! )

Thanks for the post, I’m sure it’s okay to post it there.

The book sounds great, but my biggest concern is who do I give it to my wife without causing a major fight?
I mean according to her, we have spoken about this at lenght, and nothing is the matter, all’s fine, so why are you buying me this book now?

I have to tread very lightly.

Still yearning, PM.

 

[cynic]

Cynic,

Attraction is one thing. Arousal is another. An umarried Catholic is not supposed to pretend that the opposite sex is repulsive or even neutral for that matter. What is wrong is feeding the imagination with fantasies.

and this is a great joke played by the Catholic Church on it’s members, you can have a sexuality, you just can’t have any sexual thoughts. You can be attracted, you just can’t think about the person you’re attracted to. This applies just a much to married people because the requirement is always to be completely ‘selfless’ with such things, and how can such thoughts when not in the presence of your spouse, (whether graphic or just hugging etc) ever be considered selfless?

 

[PennitentMan]

and this is a great joke played by the Catholic Church on it’s members, you can have a sexuality, you just can’t have any sexual thoughts. You can be attracted, you just can’t think about the person you’re attracted to. This applies just a much to married people because the requirement is always to be completely ‘selfless’ with such things, and how can such thoughts when not in the presence of your spouse, (whether graphic or just hugging etc) ever be considered selfless?

Hi Cynic.

I’m not too sure that “great joke” is the correct term, I’d say it’s more likely very, very high expectations from humanity that is very, very weak in this regard.
It is outlining the requirement for perfect living, which is pretty much impossible to attain, therefore we have to look at this requirement as something to strive to with all our might, together with the sacraments of Confession (for forgiveness) and Communion (for Grace).

But having said that, this goal we are striving to, appears to me to be something that is (for some people) extremely difficult to attain, myself included.
Most of the time I have to physically turn my body away from a female, just when she is walking by, for fear that I may look at her “as she walks away” so to speak.
Most of my time is spent double checking my actions to see if what I just did was a sin, or if I’m still okay. It’s a bit of paranoia.
Coupled to it that I’m always “on” from lack of… that it’s an extremely tough situation to be in!
How can I be completely selfless under such circumstances? I don’t know…

Some days it’s all I can do to “give up” you know? And I’m married!

PM

 

[sing]

Thanks for the post, I’m sure it’s okay to post it there.

The book sounds great, but my biggest concern is who do I give it to my wife without causing a major fight?
I mean according to her, we have spoken about this at lenght, and nothing is the matter, all’s fine, so why are you buying me this book now?

I have to tread very lightly.

Still yearning, PM.

Your wife is being a spoiled brat. Sorry, there’s no nice way to put it.I keep reading your posts, and I can’t hold my tongue any longer. You’re being unbelievably patient, and she’s ignoring your legitimate needs. It’s almost abusive.

 

[PennitentMan]

Your wife is being a spoiled brat. Sorry, there’s no nice way to put it.I keep reading your posts, and I can’t hold my tongue any longer. You’re being unbelievably patient, and she’s ignoring your legitimate needs. It’s almost abusive.

Well, maybe that needed to be said.

I just think she has a lot on her plate right now.

I did try again last night to get romantic, but she told me that it feels like a chore and that basically the only reason that she considers doing it, is to keep me fulfilled…

Now, that to me, is not being intimate. It may be good of her to consider me, but I’m not being intimate with her…

 

[sing]

Well, maybe that needed to be said.

I just think she has a lot on her plate right now.

I did try again last night to get romantic, but she told me that it feels like a chore and that basically the only reason that she considers doing it, is to keep me fulfilled…

Now, that to me, is not being intimate. It may be good of her to consider me, but I’m not being intimate with her…

but it’s not just about you either. if she’s not able to enjoy an important part of marriage, or doesn’t even have the desire for the act, then something is wrong with her.

 

[Jennifer_J]

PM,

While a lower sex drive (than her dh) is within the norm for women, I wonder if she has either hormonal issues or some phsycological block to sex. I would recommend a trip to the dr and a trip to a Priest or spiritual advisor or even a Catholic Therapist. Sex between married people shouldn’t be this hard.

Jennifer

 

[PennitentMan]

PM,

While a lower sex drive (than her dh) is within the norm for women, I wonder if she has either hormonal issues or some phsycological block to sex. I would recommend a trip to the dr and a trip to a Priest or spiritual advisor or even a Catholic Therapist. Sex between married people shouldn’t be this hard.

Jennifer

Thanks Jennifer.

Yeah, it’s very difficult right now. I’m climbing the walls inside my head right now

I’ll give it a while and propose this to her. as with all sensitive issues, I need to approach this just right, and at the right time so as not to cause any ill feelings.
I mean, I can’t just go to my wife and say, “Hey Honey, I thnik that your sex drive is too low, you have aproblem, and you need to go to a therapist”
Not gonna be pretty…especially after we had a long talk about this very recently and she said all is fine…it’s going to sound like a ploy from my side to get “it” more often…(Or in my case a ploy to get it, period)
Sorry, I’m in a bit of a sarcastic mood after last night…

Thanks for the suggstions, I’ll definately give it a try when the time is right.
PM

 

[Black_Jaque]

PM,

Now, that to me, is not being intimate. It may be good of her to consider me, but I’m not being intimate with her…

Aah. This might be a part of your male pride getting in the way. If she’s willing to, out of consideration for you, then do it. Acknowlege that her willingness is a “good thing” then build on top of that. Her reluctant willingness may only be a small good, but it is good. That’s just the seed from which a mighty oak can grow.

Not gonna be pretty…especially after we had a long talk about this very recently and she said all is fine…it’s going to sound like a ploy from my side to get “it” more often…(Or in my case a ploy to get it, period)

I’m sorry PM, but you need to get it through your head that marital intimacy is a good thing. That means that ploys to “do it” are good. When you use the phrase “get it” it shows that you think you are operating out of selfish desires. As if you’re the only one benefitting.

You darn right it won’t be pretty. If the consummation of wedding vows is holy and sacred, then it must be something very valuable. If it is valuable, then it is certainly worth a good hearty marital spat.

This is why it’s so important to get your vocabulary straightened out. If she hears you speaking of intimacy with phrases like “getting it” she will think you are using her for selfish pleasure. However if in your arguments you weed out all such talk and replace it with words like “consummating wedding vows” she’ll slowly realize your position. You aren’t fighting with her for selfish reasons but she’ll see that you are fighting with her on behalf of the marriage. And what is good for the marriage is good for her and her children. Therefore a husband can be totally self*less *when arguing with his wife for more marital relations.

 

[Black_Jaque]

and this is a great joke played by the Catholic Church on it’s members, you can have a sexuality, you just can’t have any sexual thoughts. You can be attracted, you just can’t think about the person you’re attracted to. This applies just a much to married people because the requirement is always to be completely ‘selfless’ with such things, and how can such thoughts when not in the presence of your spouse, (whether graphic or just hugging etc) ever be considered selfless?

Both you and PM seem to be poisoned with this logic.

Where does it say that thinking/imagining/fantasizing about an intimate encounter with your spouse is evil?

If you are married, and entertain a fantasy with your spouse, while that spouse is not around, you are not doing anything evil per se. If the fantasy is about something good, and leads you to do something good, then the fantasy is good.

If the fantasy is about something evil (unmarried sex or perverted sex) and leads you to do something evil (masterbate or be dissappointed in your own spouse) then the fantasy is evil.

See my above post about a husband arguing for more relations being selfless.

 

[PennitentMan]

Both you and PM seem to be poisoned with this logic.

Where does it say that thinking/imagining/fantasizing about an intimate encounter with your spouse is evil?

Actually, I was taught that even thinking about your spouse in a sexual way without here i.e. entertaining fantasies is evil.
Without being intimate and pondering those thoughts, you open the door to lust, and even lusting after your spouse is mortal sin.

PM

 

[cynic]

Isn’t that the mainstream position?

 

[PennitentMan]

That’s what I thought…