God's Love

[shawn38]

Which do you subscribe to?

Because God is love, He hates sin, but loves the sinner

or

Because God is just and loving, God hates sinners because of sin.

 

[svid]

The first one. God doesn’t hate us. God is love and loves his creatures. Does God still love the fallen angels? Good parents love their children no matter what…

 

[shawn38]

No. Because God is loving and just, He hates the sinner.

Psalm 5:6 Thou hatest all the workers of iniquity: Thou wilt destroy all that speak a lie. The bloody and the deceitful man the Lord will abhor.

Notice that God’s hatred is toward the worker.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Which do you subscribe to?

Because God is love, He hates sin, but loves the sinner

or

Because God is just and loving, God hates sinners because of sin.

I would subscribe to a mixture of both. God is Just and Love and God does hate sin yet, since we have free will, it is us who are responsible for our sin. It’s ours and as such, because He is Just, we will answer for it but God, “so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” Jn 3:16

God bless

 

[wmscott]

No. Because God is loving and just, He hates the sinner.

Psalm 5:6 Thou hatest all the workers of iniquity: Thou wilt destroy all that speak a lie. The bloody and the deceitful man the Lord will abhor.

Notice that God’s hatred is toward the worker.

From the Haydocks Catholic Commentary

Workers, (operantur) “who work,” (Haydock) and die impenitent. — Lie. All heretics, who kill their own and neighbours’ souls, (St. Jerome) and in general all seducers, (Calmet) who will be treated like those who have committed murder. (Eusebius) (Cæsar.)

 

[SunshineRose1]

Of the two choices, I’d tend to subscribe more to the first one than the second one. I believe that God loves us no matter what we do. In His justice, He sometimes has to punish us for our sins in order to teach us how to live more holy lives, but I think that punishment stems from love rather than from hatred. We are God’s creation, and He loves us more than any of us could possibly imagine.

I believe that the redemption God is willing to extend us all shows how He loves the sinner and hates the sin, rather than hating the sinner because of sin. After all, if He hated the sinner, He would not forgive the sinner. However, since He loves the sinner and hates the sin, He is willing to forgive sinners as long as those sinners are willing to go to the effort of trying to avoid sin in the future.

As for the Psalm quotation that states that God hates all workers of iniquity, which is everyone, I am interested in how one can reconcile the image of a God who hates everybody with the one who “so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.” (John 3:16). To me, the fact that God the Father extended redemption to us in the form of Jesus Christ tells us how much love He bears for us sinners. As far as I can see, redemption and salvation are possible only because of the love and not the hatred that God harbors for us sinners despite our sinfulness. After all, Christ Himself said that He didn’t come into the world for the righteous, but for the sinners, since it is the sick, not the healthy, who need a doctor. (Mark 2:17).

 

[shawn38]

“so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” Jn 3:16

God bless

That’s true, but Psalm 5 is also in the Bible and must be considered.

Psalm 5:5 Neither shall the wicked dwell near thee: nor shall the unjust abide before thy eyes. 6 Thou hatest all the workers of iniquity: Thou wilt destroy all that speak a lie. The bloody and the deceitful man the Lord will abhor.

Psalm 11:5 The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked,
And the one who loves violence His soul hates.

There’s others.

This is the flip side of God’s. God cannot be morally apethetic. God must hate because God is love.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

That’s true, but Psalm 5 is also in the Bible and must be considered.

Psalm 5:5 Neither shall the wicked dwell near thee: nor shall the unjust abide before thy eyes. 6 Thou hatest all the workers of iniquity: Thou wilt destroy all that speak a lie. The bloody and the deceitful man the Lord will abhor.

Psalm 11:5 The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked,
And the one who loves violence His soul hates.

There’s others.

This is the flip side of God’s. God cannot be morally apethetic. God must hate because God is love.

Oh I did take Ps 5 into consideration. I just continued reading it:

But I through the abundance of thy steadfast love will enter thy house

How could God have had “steadfast love” if he, like you contend, hates the sinner? All have sinned (Rom. 3:23) yet here we see, later in the very Psalm you have quoted, God with “steadfast love” for a sinner.

Remember, “God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good” Gen. 1:31. So what changed? Sin.

God bless

 

[shawn38]

Oh I did take Ps 5 into consideration. I just continued reading it:

How could God have had “steadfast love” if he, like you contend, hates the sinner? All have sinned (Rom. 3:23) yet here we see, later in the very Psalm you have quoted, God with “steadfast love” for a sinner.

Remember, “God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good” Gen. 1:31. So what changed? Sin.

God bless

Who does God show steadfast love toward? Toward those that love Him and keep His commandments. It’s a consistent theme.

Deut 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD your God is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations
Deut 5:10 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Ex 20:6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments

The only reference to “love” in Psalm 5 was the love the Israelites had toward God.

Psalm 5:11 But let all them be glad that hope in thee: they shall rejoice for ever, and thou shalt dwell in them. And all they that love thy name shall glory in thee:

God is steadfast in love. He’s also very restrained, storing up until that Day His wrath against those not in Christ.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Who does God show steadfast love toward?

One example is in the Psalm you keep quoting. He showed it to David, a sinner. How did God show His love for us?

But God shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. Rom. 5:8

Read that again. God showed His love for us while we were still sinners with Christ’s sacrifice. Later in the same chapter from Romans we get this:

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

We were enemies of God, through our sin, and what does our Lord tell us to do towards our enemies?

But I say to you, Love your enemies… Matt. 5:44

The only reference to “love” in Psalm 5 was the love the Israelites had toward God.

Not true read it again specifically verse 7.

God is steadfast in love. He’s also very restrained, storing up until that Day His wrath against those not in Christ.

Not sure how this would be in conflict with anything I have said. We have free will therefore we will to answer for our sins. God hating sin and it separating us from Him does not do away with the consequences of unrepented sin. I am not so much worried whether you believe God hates you or your sin, just so long you recognize that you are indeed a sinner in need of His forgiveness.

Instead of continuing with this, could you explain why the distinction is important to you? Whether God hates the sinner or the sin the person has still turned from God and separated himself from Him and His grace.

God bless

 

[fons_vitae]

No. Because God is loving and just, He hates the sinner.

Psalm 5:6 Thou hatest all the workers of iniquity: Thou wilt destroy all that speak a lie. The bloody and the deceitful man the Lord will abhor.

Notice that God’s hatred is toward the worker.

Ahem:
For Thou lovest all the things that are, and abhorrest nothing which Thou hast made: for never wouldest Thou have made any thing, if Thou hadst hated it. Wisdom 11:24

Granted, it’s not in the Protestant canon, but still .

 

[Jessup]

Isn’t God’s love conditional? does that fit this context. that is how I’ve always made the analysis

 

[Augsburg1530]

Isn’t God’s love conditional? does that fit this context. that is how I’ve always made the analysis

According to the Law, yes, God’s love toward man is conditioned upon perfect obedience to His commandments.

According to the Gospel, no, God’s love is unconditional toward the sinner because of the obedience of Christ to the commandments.

 

[shawn38]

According to the Law, yes, God’s love toward man is conditioned upon perfect obedience to His commandments.

According to the Gospel, no, God’s love is unconditional toward the sinner because of the obedience of Christ to the commandments.

God’s love/grace is not unconditional. You say so yourself. It’s not only conditional on belief in Jesus as the Christ and only begotten son of God, but various other things. The conditions (or test that you’re in Christ) are covered in 1 John.

 

[kozlosap]

#1 without reservation! God unconditionally loves all of his creations but hates the sins, not the sinners. If I thought otherwise, I certainly wouldn’t be RC!

 

[rinnie]

Which do you subscribe to?

Because God is love, He hates sin, but loves the sinner

or

Because God is just and loving, God hates sinners because of sin.

I will go with number l. God hates sin. God loves the sinner hates the sins. God never has hate for any of his Children.

He loves to see a sinner turn from his sin and come back home to him. God loves us all. Its just sad we all don’t love God.:

 

[JustaServant]

Which do you subscribe to?

Because God is love, He hates sin, but loves the sinner

or

Because God is just and loving, God hates sinners because of sin.

God’s love is not human love.
Human love is based on feelings and rooted in emotions. God’s is a love that operates apart from emotions. His love does not waver day by day. It is the total commitment of His Being to seek our highest and best, and to bring us to our fullest potential as humans.
He is Love, and He loves us because of who He is, not because of who we are.
He does not love what we do, but He is committed to us, pursuing us down every blind alley and path of foolishness. He will not let us go. His is a love that is not looking for what it can get out of us, but a committed love that searches for opportunities to give to us.

 

[Sufjon]

God’s love is not human love.
Human love is based on feelings and rooted in emotions. God’s is a love that operates apart from emotions. His love does not waver day by day. It is the total commitment of His Being to seek our highest and best, and to bring us to our fullest potential as humans.
He is Love, and He loves us because of who He is, not because of who we are.
He does not love what we do, but He is committed to us, pursuing us down every blind alley and path of foolishness. He will not let us go. His is a love that is not looking for what it can get out of us, but a committed love that searches for opportunities to give to us.

Beautifully put, JustaServant.

Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[Augsburg1530]

God’s love/grace is not unconditional. You say so yourself. It’s not only conditional on belief in Jesus as the Christ and only begotten son of God, but various other things. The conditions (or test that you’re in Christ) are covered in 1 John.

No, it is not conditioned on belief in Jesus Christ because belief in Jesus Christ is not a human work, but rather, a gift from God. God gives the faith in Christ that is necessary for justification. It is by His love and grace that we have faith, and that not of ourselves.