God's Mountain--Sermon, Transfiguration

[Seamus_Sully]

The only Biblical answer that I can discern is: Jesus went up God’s Mountain for the Sermon on the Mount and the Transfiguration.

It is from the Psalms.

The Psalms that come to my mind are 43, 3; 3, 5; 15, 1; 24, 3; 36, 7; 48, 2 and Isaiah 56, 7.

It is a real mountain. It is where God dwells. It is a literal mountain.

 

[Crumpy]

How about a little more context here. What point are you discussing?

 

[thistle]

The only Biblical answer that I can discern is: Jesus went up God’s Mountain for the Sermon on the Mount and the Transfiguration.

It is from the Psalms.

The Psalms that come to my mind are 43, 3; 3, 5; 15, 1; 24, 3; 36, 7; 48, 2 and Isaiah 56, 7.

It is a real mountain. It is where God dwells. It is a literal mountain.

God is EVERYWHERE and not just on a mountain!!

 

[Jerry-Jet]

I once heard a sermon about mountain-top experiences. As great as such experiences are we can’t go back to them.

Notice that Our Lord did not endorse Peter’s idea of erecting three booths for Jesus Moses and Elijah.

That’s not to say that erecting churches at religious sites is a bad thing–it’s just that we can’t go back to past spiritual experiences.

We must always seek after God and not the feeling of the experience.

The sermon was Protestant but I think many Catholics could agree with it.

Sometimes I wonder if some people involved in the Charismatic Catholic movement are not erroneously trying to erect booths like Peter did and not knowing what they’re really saying or doing.

 

[Seamus_Sully]

Concerning the context: the three areas are the Transfiguration, Sermon on the Mount and God’s Dwelling in the Psalms.

The Transfiguration is found in St. Matthew chapter 17, and St. Mark chapter 9.

Concerning the context of the Sermon on the Mount, it begins in the fifth chapter of St. Matthew’s Gospel.

Concerning God’s Dwellling in the Psalms, the primary text that I use is Psalm 43, 3.

Furthermore, I believe that the Mountain that is used is God’s Dwelling. I at this time do not know how to explain that. I believe it is joined to our hearts, that is, our hearts are now the Temple of the Holy Spirit. God dwells in our heart.

I am not a scholar. Therefore I do not know how to explain such loving mysteries. However, it is Biblically clear, God’s dwells on a mountain. Moreover, God now dwells in our hearts. We are now the Temples of the Holy Spirit. In addition, the saints are told to run to the mountains.

Concerning these points, there are many Biblical passages that are joined to these topics such as God’s love is poured into our hearts, God is my Cup and my Cup overflows. How to explain the connection, I do not know.

I am looking for further ideas.

HELP!!!

Again, I am not a scholar. I am an average student of the Most Holy Scripture, a serious student, a child of God.

 

[Evan]

I would guess that the phrase ‘Mountain top experience’ flow from the theophanie on Sinai with Moses encounter with God.

 

[NotWorthy]

Guys, a lot of things happened on mountains. There’s certainly something being conveyed. What? I don’t really know.
** 1. The Garden of Eden - **Genesis 2:10
** 2. Noah’s Ark rests on Mt. Ararat after the Great Flood - **Genesis 8:4
** 3. The substitutionary atonement of the ram in place of the sacrifice of Abraham’s son Isaac on Mt. Moriah - **Genesis 22:2
** 4. Sinai Covenant on Mt. Sinai/Horeb - **Exodus 19:12
** 5. The site of Solomon’s Temple on Mt. Moriah - **2 Chronicles 3:1
** 6. Elijah’s defeat of the prophets of Baal on Mt. Carmel “carmel” is a Hebrew word for “garden”] - 1 Kings 18
** 7. Jesus and the giving of the New Covenant law on the Mt. of Beatitudes - Matthew 5
** 8. Jesus’ official appointment of Peter as Vicar of the Church on the mountain at Caesarea Philippi - **Matthew 16:13-19; Mark 827-30; Luke 9:18-21;
** 9. Jesus prevailed over temptation on a mountain - **Matthew 4:8-11; Luke 4:1-13
** 10. The Mt. of Transfiguration when Jesus appeared in His glory - **Matthew 17 [Peter refers to this place as “the holy mountain” in 2 Peter 1:16-18]
** 11. Jesus is arrested in a garden on the Mt. of Olives; Jesus ascends to the Father from the Mt. of Olives - **Matthew 26:47ff; Mark 14:43ff; Luke 22:47ff; John 18:3ff; Acts 1:1-19
** 12. Golgotha, where Jesus was crucified was a lower elevation of Mt. Moriah - **Matthew 27:32-36; Mark 15:21-27; Luke 23:26-34; John 19:17-24

 

[Seamus_Sully]

NotWorthy

(I keep misreading your name as noteworthy)

NotWorthy:

How many of those mountains can be located?

Example, Mount Sinai cannot be located.

I think that some even think that Sinai means Mount Thorny or Thorn. I cannot help but think of Jesus’ explanation of thorns, worldly anxieties.

***“8. Jesus’ official appointment of Peter as Vicar of the Church on the mountain at Caesarea Philippi - Matthew 16:13-19; Mark 827-30; Luke 9:18-21;” ***

NotWorthy, Is this a mountain or a mountain in Caesarea Philippi?

Thanks!!!

Also, how do the Doctors and Fathers of the Church explain these mountains?

I hope that I made some sense.

 

[NotWorthy]

NotWorthy

(I keep misreading your name as noteworthy)

Please remember, I’m NOT Noteworthy!!!

NotWorthy:

How many of those mountains can be located?

Example, Mount Sinai cannot be located.

I think that some even think that Sinai means Mount Thorny or Thorn. I cannot help but think of Jesus’ explanation of thorns, worldly anxieties.

***“8. Jesus’ official appointment of Peter as Vicar of the Church on the mountain at Caesarea Philippi - Matthew 16:13-19; Mark 827-30; Luke 9:18-21;” ***

NotWorthy, Is this a mountain or a mountain in Caesarea Philippi?

Thanks!!!

Also, how do the Doctors and Fathers of the Church explain these mountains?

I hope that I made some sense.

I’ll see what I can do to find out.

 

[NotWorthy]

NotWorthy

(I keep misreading your name as noteworthy)

I got a kick last week, someone called me “Not-so-worthy”

NotWorthy:

How many of those mountains can be located?

Example, Mount Sinai cannot be located.

I think that some even think that Sinai means Mount Thorny or Thorn. I cannot help but think of Jesus’ explanation of thorns, worldly anxieties.

This is what I got from Agape Bible Study.

Yahweh leads them through the desert of the Red Sea /Sea of Reeds. The translation “Red Sea” was introduced into Scripture in the 3rd century BC Greek translation of Old Testament known as the Septuagint [in Greek Yam SuphErythra Thalassa, *Red Sea]. This mistake, if it is a mistake and not an interpretation from oral tradition, was picked up by the Latin Vulgate and became imbedded in most English translations. In Hebrew the word is *Yam Suph *[also written as “*suf”

], literally “sea reed”, or Sea of Reeds.

Bible scholars have not been able to determine the exact location of the Sea of Reeds. Some scholars have suggested either Lake Timash, a large lake halfway between the Mediterranean and the Red Sea, or the Bitter Lakes, a series of lakes just to the south of Timsha, or the Red Sea itself, specifically the Gulf of Suez. Both Timsha and the Bitter Lakes are bodies of water the people would have come across had they taken the central route across the Sinai. But there are problems with this route:

1. The middle of the Sinai is by far the most difficult route.

2. The mountains in the center of the peninsula are barely mountains…mostly large hills and Horeb/Sinai is described as a mountain.

3. The Biblical text says it took a little over a month to reach Sinai from the Yam Suph but the distance from the Bitter  Lakes to the mountains/hills in central Sinai is only a few hundred miles.

Other clues might be found in other passages of Scripture, for example in Numbers 21 where “Yam Suph” clearly indicates the Gulf of Aqaba, and the Bible records that King Solomon kept his fleet of ships at a port on the Yam Suph [1 Kings 9:26-27] which in this case is clearly the Gulf of Aqaba. It is possible that in ancient times the whole body of waters today know as the Red Sea, the Gulf of Suez and the Gulf of Aqaba were known as the Yam Suph and so either the crossing was at the Gulf of Aqaba, on the eastern side of the Sinai Peninsula or perhaps the Jewish scholars translating the Septuagint provided the interpretation that it was the more eastern body of water known as the Red Sea that the Israelites crossed.

It does seem more likely that the Children of Israel took the southern route across the Sinai. The Southern route offers a series of oases along the Gulf of Suez where the Israelites could have stopped on the journeyed eastward across the peninsula. The southern route also provides majestic mountains befitting the description of Mt. Sinai. There is more water in the south, which would make it easier to support a large population, but of course God did provide them with water in His own way. It is also colder in the southern desert and more difficult to survive, but Yahweh provided for the people in that hardship as well.

Since St. Helena’s visit to the Sinai in the 4th century in her attempt to locate the holy sites, pilgrims have been coming to the southern mountains of the Sinai believing they are visiting the holy Mountain of God.

 

[Seamus_Sully]

I believe that God is a Spirit.

I believe that God talked with Moses.

I believe that God spoke to Moses in Moses’ heart.

I believe that the relationship stayed more on God’s plane.

I believe that Moses’ heart was raised up to God, prayer.

When Moses was raised that high, the best physical word is mountain.

I think that this happens regularly in the Bible.

God’s promises ARE silver.

I believe that physical silver takes its name from God’s promises.

We understand the value of silver because it (silver) has lasting value like God’s promises.

God dwells on a mountain.

I believe that physical mountains take their name from God’s Mountain dwelling.

We understand mountians because they (mountains) are high and beautiful. I do not know how to explain this one, but I tried.

The primary analogate is God’s promise and dwelling. The secondary analogate is comprehended by the primary. I think that we often confuse the two. Silver and mountains are understood only when compared to God’s promises and dwelling.

Well, it is my thought as of now.

 

[Seamus_Sully]

Biblical fact: God dwells on a mountain Ps. 43, 3

Biblical fact: Oaks of justice Isaiah 61, 3

Biblical fact: Sun of justice Malachi 3, 30 (NAB)

Biblical fact: God is my Cup Ps. 16, 5

Biblical fact: My Cup overflows Ps. 23, 5

Biblical fact: God’s promises are silver Ps 12, 7

Biblical fact: Feed my sheep John 21, 20-23

Biblical fact: For wisdom will enter your HEART Proverbs 2, 10

Biblical fact: Keep thoughts of my heart before You Ps. 19, 5

Biblical fact: My “kidney” (conscience) admonishes me at night Ps 16, 7

Biblical fact: Speaking truth from the heart Ps. 15, 1

Biblical fact: From the heart come evil thoughts St. Mark7, 21

Biblical fact: God’s teaching is in their hearts Ps. 37, 31

Biblical fact: Your law is in my heart Ps 40, 9

Biblical fact: Blessed are the clean of heart St. Matthew 5, 8

Biblical fact: God is our Father.

God’s promises are silver. The physical silver was named after or from God’s promises. The physical silver’s nature is better understood when compared to God’s promises, and God’s promises are comprehended more fully when compared to physical silver.

God is our Father. The human father’s true nature is better understood when compared to God’s Fatherhood. God’s Fatherhood is comprehended more fully when compared to our fatherhood.

Jesus is the Son of God. The human “sonhood’s” nature is better understood when compared to Divine “Sonhood.” Also, the Divine “Sonhood” is more fully comprehended when compared to human “sonhood.”

We have a heart (soul). This heart can talk with God, and it does not need my physical a mouth. The physical mouth’s nature is better understood when compared to the heart’s mouth. Our heart’s mouth is comprehended better when compared to our physical mouth. With my heart’s mouth I can talk with God. With my physical mouth I can talk with my family.

Jesus is the Good Shepherd. The physical shepherd of animal lambs is better understood when compared to the Good Shepherd. The Good is comprehended more fully when compared to the physical shepherd.

Jesus is the Sun of Justice. Our physical sun takes it name after or from the Sun of Justice. Our physical sun’s nature is better understood when compared to the Sun of Justice. Also, our Sun of justice is comprehended better when compared to the physical sun.

The comparisons are real. The Bible’s comparisons are similar to normal literary comparisons. God’s promises are silver, fact. God’s promise is the first reality or term in the comparison. The physical silver is the secondary reality or term. To say it differently, God’s promises are the cardinal first reality or term. The physical silver is the cardinal second reality or term. This principle is used for many of the realities or terms.

A note about cardinal numbers: the cardinal number one in an automobile is the motor. It is the motor that makes the car an “auto”-mobile. The ordinal first part is the frame of the car.

Origen teaches that the Holy Bible uses homonyms for the heart/soul and the body’s parts. Thus he says that our heart (soul) has ears, eyes and womb. He says that the Holy Bible uses the same word for our heart’s parts as for our body’s parts. The words are the same but the meaning is different. One word is used for a part of the inner heart, and the other word is used for the physical body.

 

[Seamus_Sully]

Any ideas?

 

[NotWorthy]

The only idea I have is that I have no idea what you are talking about. Sorry.

 

[Seamus_Sully]

NoteWorthy

I want to thanks for you helpful answer.

I will think about how to say my ideas clearly.

I am sorry about the poor presentation.

Again, I thank you for your answer.

 

[NotWorthy]

You see, you lost me at first.

Biblical Fact: God dwells on a mountain - Psalm 43:3

God did dwell on a mountain. That mountain was where Jerusalem was, and more specifically, the Temple. God dwelt in the Temple at Jerusalem which was atop a mountain in the Mountain Range of Moriah.

This would have been the time that the 43rd Psalm was written.

BUT… God left the Temple shortly before the Babylonian exile. We read of the Shekinah Cloud leaving the Temple shortly before Jeremiah removed the Ark of the Covenant and hid it.

Seamus, I do know where you’re coming from. An idea is crystal clear in my head, and for someone it just doesn’t flow through my fingers into the keyboard very well. It often comes from me making the assumption that everyone has a clear idea of where I’m going and what I mean.

 

[thistle]

Any ideas?

Its somewhat hard to respond when we have no clue what you are talking about or what point you are trying to make.

 

[Seamus_Sully]

thistle

Sorry.

As I said to NoteWorthy, I will try to do a better job later.

I am not a scholar, but I am going to try to do a better job.

Obviously, there is lots of room for improvement.

Again, I am sorry for my poor presentation.

I want to thank you for your patience.

 

[dessert]

The only Biblical answer that I can discern is: Jesus went up God’s Mountain for the Sermon on the Mount and the Transfiguration.

It is from the Psalms.

The Psalms that come to my mind are 43, 3; 3, 5; 15, 1; 24, 3; 36, 7; 48, 2 and Isaiah 56, 7.

It is a real mountain. It is where God dwells. It is a literal mountain.

Mountain in the Hebrew is ‘har’ meaning range of hills
this is exclusive to the meaning in the OT
short form from ‘har har’ meaning loom up a mountain or hills, used only once that I see

The greek word for mountaiin in the NT is ‘oros’ put a little accent on the o’s seems to be only one meaning to rise above a plain or lifting itself above. Does not mean real mountain from what I understand.

Sorry made a mistake there two places where har har is referred
Psalm 30;7
Jer 17;3
and Psalm 36; 6 mountain(s)

dessert

 

[NotWorthy]

Sorry made a mistake there two places where har har is referred
Psalm 30;7
Jer 17;3
and Psalm 36; 6 mountain(s)

dessert

Are you saying ZZ-Tops La Grange is actually based on the Psalms and Jeremiah? Wow, I never knew that!!!

“Har, har, har, har”.