God's plan for salvation: And His name shall be on their forehead

  • Thread starter Thread starter Robert_Sock
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
R

Robert_Sock

Guest
Grasp unto the deep religious meaning in knowing that your innermost being is spiritual, and not physical. Think again about the story of creation, and take a closer look at the world around you! Imagine the humor (or horror, as may be for some sinners) in discovering that God is indeed the greatest of reality, and that our self, along with our world, was always mere fantasy! Such a day is not too far away!

*And they shall see His face, and His name shall be on their forehead.
-Revelation 22:4

I will put My law within them, and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, “Know the Lord,” for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them… for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.
-Jeremiah 31:33-34 *
 
Robert_Sock said:
Grasp unto the deep religious meaning in knowing that your innermost being is spiritual, and not physical. Think again about the story of creation, and take a closer look at the world around you! Imagine the humor (or horror, as may be for some sinners) in discovering that God is indeed the greatest of reality, and that our self, along with our world, was always mere fantasy! Such a day is not too far away!

*And they shall see His face, and His name shall be on their forehead.
-Revelation 22:4

I will put My law within them, and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, “Know the Lord,” for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them… for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.
-Jeremiah 31:33-34 *
Click to expand...
Mr. Sock, sir, correct me if it seems that I’ve misunderstood you …

I had similar thoughts for a brief time while at university. I would walk down the street thinking that the only reality was the spiritual reality. That the physical world I was in was of no real importance and that I was really dwelling in a spiritual world.
But God did not create a fantasy. He created a real, physical universe and created us humans. We are both body and soul.
We cannot consider this to be “mere fantasy”, at least not in the way your post struck me. Maybe I’m taking you too literally. After all, our ‘fantasy’ bodies will be resurrected for eternal life with God or eternal damnation. Even God himself has a physical human body in the Second Person of the Holy Trinity.

You are very right in saying that God is the greatest reality. This reality we live in now will pass away and be replaced by a new heaven and a new earth. Without end.

God be with you Robert!
 
The_Reginator said:
Mr. Sock, sir, correct me if it seems that I’ve misunderstood you …

I had similar thoughts for a brief time while at university. I would walk down the street thinking that the only reality was the spiritual reality. That the physical world I was in was of no real importance and that I was really dwelling in a spiritual world.
But God did not create a fantasy. He created a real, physical universe and created us humans. We are both body and soul.
We cannot consider this to be “mere fantasy”, at least not in the way your post struck me. Maybe I’m taking you too literally. After all, our ‘fantasy’ bodies will be resurrected for eternal life with God or eternal damnation. Even God himself has a physical human body in the Second Person of the Holy Trinity.

You are very right in saying that God is the greatest reality. This reality we live in now will pass away and be replaced by a new heaven and a new earth. Without end.

God be with you Robert!
Click to expand...
Viewing the ‘self’ as reflective consciousness one can pretty easily see how the self is an inner illusion. It does not exist! I’m not talking about the body, but the inner ‘self.’ I also view our world as a make-believe. A make-believe that we adults mistakenly call ‘reality.’

My main point is that we get so caught-up in ourselves and our world that they seem so real, but turn your attention to God and you will begin to see that it’s pure fantasy. Note again, I’m not calling the physical world as being non-existent, only the illusion that is projected into our minds as a false reality. God lives in us and will someday overshadow us. 🙂
 
This sounds dangerously close to Gnosticism. Humans are both body and soul. Why bother with a ressurection if only soul matters?
 
InJesusItrust said:
This sounds dangerously close to Gnosticism. Humans are both body and soul. Why bother with a ressurection if only soul matters?
Click to expand...
Yes, humans are body and soul, but these earthly bodies will give way to glorified bodies at the time of the resurrection in the World-to-Come, but in Heaven, there will be only our souls from what I understand. In Jewish mysticism there is also the idea of a World-to-Come, but afterwards our souls will be united with God.
 
Robert_Sock said:
Yes, humans are body and soul, but these earthly bodies will give way to glorified bodies at the time of the resurrection in the World-to-Come, but in Heaven, there will be only our souls from what I understand. In Jewish mysticism there is also the idea of a World-to-Come, but afterwards our souls will be united with God.
Click to expand...
Are you saying that there will be physical death/aging/sickness after the second coming?

Both the bodies of Jesus and Mary are in heaven. As I understand it the kingdom of heaven will come onto earth and God will dwell with us.
 
Robert_Sock said:
Yes, humans are body and soul, but these earthly bodies will give way to glorified bodies at the time of the resurrection in the World-to-Come, but in Heaven, there will be only our souls from what I understand. In Jewish mysticism there is also the idea of a World-to-Come, but afterwards our souls will be united with God.
Click to expand...
Careful Robert.

This is not Catholic doctrine. Remember the Apostles Creed? All (or most) Christians profess their belief in the resurrection of the body. Jesus Himself rose from the dead in His resurrected and glorified body. That same body ascended to heaven. The belief that our bodies will be resurrected either for eternity with God or for eternity in hell is not something we can choose whether or not to believe.

As for our souls being united with God, that is a thought from some eastern religions (Hinduism perhaps? I can’t remember as I studied Religion at university over 30 years ago.) We will never be “united” with God, as I take your meaning. We will be with Him in paradise but we will always be individuals. (Or is that what you mean by being united? My first reaction was that you were suggesting that we will become *part *of God. Forgive me if I misunderstand …)

Thanks for raising this topic. It is good to stop and think about our beliefs and try to explain them in our own words. A good learning experience for the glory of God.

Dominus tecum, Reg.
 
The_Reginator said:
Careful Robert.

This is not Catholic doctrine. Remember the Apostles Creed? All (or most) Christians profess their belief in the resurrection of the body. Jesus Himself rose from the dead in His resurrected and glorified body. That same body ascended to heaven. The belief that our bodies will be resurrected either for eternity with God or for eternity in hell is not something we can choose whether or not to believe.

As for our souls being united with God, that is a thought from some eastern religions (Hinduism perhaps? I can’t remember as I studied Religion at university over 30 years ago.) We will never be “united” with God, as I take your meaning. We will be with Him in paradise but we will always be individuals. (Or is that what you mean by being united? My first reaction was that you were suggesting that we will become *part *of God. Forgive me if I misunderstand …)

Thanks for raising this topic. It is good to stop and think about our beliefs and try to explain them in our own words. A good learning experience for the glory of God.

Dominus tecum, Reg.
Click to expand...
It’s my understanding that the soul goes to Heaven after we die and is reunited with a glorified body at the time of the resurrection. I believe that the ‘self’ is an illusion and God will be all that we are aware of during the World-to-Come. But I also believe that something will happen after the World-to-Come whereby our souls are more fully united with God. **Nothing exists except God. ** If we were to see God face-to-face we would become completely nullified. So, although we will never become a part of God, there will come a time when our souls are more fully united with God. Again, this is in accord with Jewish Mysticism, not Hinduism. 🙂
 
Robert_Sock said:
**Nothing exists except God. **
Click to expand...
So then evil and Satan is God deceiving Himself, convincing Himself that there is a being which rebelled but being deceived by his own mind-game. If nothing exists but God how can God condemn Himself to Hell?

This sounds really Gnostic/Hindu to me.
 
InJesusItrust said:
So then evil and Satan is God deceiving Himself, convincing Himself that there is a being which rebelled but being deceived by his own mind-game. If nothing exists but God how can God condemn Himself to Hell?

This sounds really Gnostic/Hindu to me.
Click to expand...
No, not Gnostic or Hindu, but Judaism. God is one and there exists nothing other than God. God alone created all things in the universe, and besides God, there is nothing.
 
I would recommend seeing a few lectures by Peter Kreeft. What you are holding is not a Catholic view. God is in all things, but not all things are God. This is Monism, the view that all separate minds is one consciousness.

This is what educated Hindus believe.
 
I really don’t understand what you are saying. If you merely said that God is immanent or sustains all things, I would understand. But it sounds like you are saying that individuals with freewill do not exist, like Satan, in which case hell is absurd. Why should God care about idolatry if what you are saying is true? Why should He care if we worship creation if creation is a part of Him? If nothing exists apart from Him if we worship a rock we are worshiping Him…
 
The_Reginator said:
After all, our ‘fantasy’ bodies will be resurrected for eternal life with God or eternal damnation.

This reality we live in now will pass away and be replaced by a new heaven and a new earth. Without end.
Click to expand...
I think you are more correct than you intend - although I’d shift the context just slightly and leave off the quotation marks around the word fantasy.

As for the second assertion above, what evidence is there for this, apart from the stories contained in ancient, prescientific (okay - maybe not entirely prescientific, since there’s little doubt that the Ancient Greeks and Romans, amongst others, did engage in what could legitimately be called science; but certainly in a time of less widespread scientific education and less likelihood that scientifically established facts made their way into popular discourse) texts? It might not have been deemed necessary at that time to elucidate precisely how and why the reality we presently experience will be replaced - but the time is ripe for some rigorous explanation…
 
Sair said:
I think you are more correct than you intend - although I’d shift the context just slightly and leave off the quotation marks around the word fantasy.

As for the second assertion above, what evidence is there for this, apart from the stories contained in ancient, prescientific (okay - maybe not entirely prescientific, since there’s little doubt that the Ancient Greeks and Romans, amongst others, did engage in what could legitimately be called science; but certainly in a time of less widespread scientific education and less likelihood that scientifically established facts made their way into popular discourse) texts? It might not have been deemed necessary at that time to elucidate precisely how and why the reality we presently experience will be replaced - but the time is ripe for some rigorous explanation…
Click to expand...
no point talking about science, it was not ancient science which told the story, it was divine revelation.
 
Sair said:
What good is divine revelation if it does not ring true with scientifically-discerned reality?
Click to expand...
Scientifically prove to me that love exists. Give me measurements please. Not just evidence that emotions exist, chemicals flow, nerves react–but point out love to me. Quantify love for me.

Now we might agree that there are force laws in physical reality, but what sustains the laws? Science can only study those laws and their actions, not the principles that sustain them. Do you really think that scientific laws can explain how Jesus walked on water or the Resurrection? Do you really think that the powers of nature have sway over the law-giver that He does not will?
 
Sair said:
I think you are more correct than you intend - although I’d shift the context just slightly and leave off the quotation marks around the word fantasy.

As for the second assertion above, what evidence is there for this, apart from the stories contained in ancient, prescientific (okay - maybe not entirely prescientific, since there’s little doubt that the Ancient Greeks and Romans, amongst others, did engage in what could legitimately be called science; but certainly in a time of less widespread scientific education and less likelihood that scientifically established facts made their way into popular discourse) texts? It might not have been deemed necessary at that time to elucidate precisely how and why the reality we presently experience will be replaced - but the time is ripe for some rigorous explanation…
Click to expand...
It is not me that is correct. It is the Holy Catholic Church. In other words it is the Holy Spirit Himself that tells us these things. Science has nothing to do with it and can say nothing about it.
These are things that our mere human minds cannot begin to come up with.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top