God's protects us, but allows suffering and death?

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Hello,

How do we understand the scriptures, especially the Psalms when they talk about God protecting us, but at the same time allows suffering and death?

I have also heard Blessed Mother Mary, the Angels, and Saints (in Heaven) can protect us through their intercession. How does this work, like do they somehow thwart the enemy and evil intentions of people through physically putting Loving thoughts in their head though the people still need to choose good?

Or do they somehow alter the world (natural laws that cannot be changed?) we live in some other way to protect us? Of course, this question applies to how God protects us too, and ultimately.

Thank you for your thoughts!
God Bless you!
 
GodHeals said:
Hello,

How do we understand the scriptures, especially the Psalms when they talk about God protecting us, but at the same time allows suffering and death?

I have also heard Blessed Mother Mary, the Angels, and Saints (in Heaven) can protect us through their intercession. How does this work, like do they somehow thwart the enemy and evil intentions of people through physically putting Loving thoughts in their head though the people still need to choose good?

Or do they somehow alter the world (natural laws that cannot be changed?) we live in some other way to protect us? Of course, this question applies to how God protects us too, and ultimately.

Thank you for your thoughts!
God Bless you!
Click to expand...
The Bible contradicts itself in so many places that it’s almost impossible to interpret without circular logic.

I’ll give you a rough remake of the original riddle of this:

If God is able to prevent evil, but not willing, he is malevolent.
If God is willing but not able, he is impotent.
If God is both willing and able, why does evil exist in the first place?
If God is neither willing nor able, why even call him a god?

I’m not trying to refute the Bible, mind you; it refutes itself.
 
The problem with this matter is one of “world view”.
Consider…
Are you a person with a soul or are you a soul with a person?

Silly question? Yes - perhaps. But it speaks to the world view of people struggling with these kinds of questions.
If I am an immortal soul - then God does not allow death…for I am immortal. The only thing that ends is the functioning of the body. The soul…that which I am…continues.

Suffering is a bit more tricky, since we feel so much pain while in our bodies - in this life - but again - if we think in terms of our immortality first, then the matters of bodily suffering can be more easily accepted as a transient thing that can benefit our soul and the souls of others.

Just some thoughts.

Peace
James
 
For me, suffering would be a memory of Our Lords Passion. What he went through for us creatures. It would be an honour to suffer for Our Lord.
 
Gaerteuth said:
The Bible contradicts itself in so many places that it’s almost impossible to interpret without circular logic.

I’ll give you a rough remake of the original riddle of this:

If God is able to prevent evil, but not willing, he is malevolent.
If God is willing but not able, he is impotent.
If God is both willing and able, why does evil exist in the first place?
If God is neither willing nor able, why even call him a god?

I’m not trying to refute the Bible, mind you; it refutes itself.
Click to expand...
You assume that there is no good to be gained from suffering. Look at it this way: a small child is taken for his vaccinations. The shots hurt and he is miserable afterwards. Since he is only 3, he doesn’t come up with the sophisticated analysis you have written here, but he could, right? He could say, this hurts, why are my parents not protecting me from this pain? They must be either malevolent or impotent!

But the parents allow the evil and suffering to enter the child’s life because there is a greater good: the small pain now will prevent the dangerous suffering that would otherwise be caused if the child got the disease(s) for which he is being vaccinated, right?

So the solution to your logic equation is that something is being left out.
 
ajecphotos said:
For me, suffering would be a memory of Our Lords Passion. What he went through for us creatures. It would be an honour to suffer for Our Lord.
Click to expand...
There was suffering before Jesus’ crucifixion, though.

So what was that suffering meant to portray?
 
St_Francis said:
You assume that there is no good to be gained from suffering. Look at it this way: a small child is taken for his vaccinations. The shots hurt and he is miserable afterwards. Since he is only 3, he doesn’t come up with the sophisticated analysis you have written here, but he could, right? He could say, this hurts, why are my parents not protecting me from this pain? They must be either malevolent or impotent!

But the parents allow the evil and suffering to enter the child’s life because there is a greater good: the small pain now will prevent the dangerous suffering that would otherwise be caused if the child got the disease(s) for which he is being vaccinated, right?

So the solution to your logic equation is that something is being left out.
Click to expand...
Pain and suffering are two different things.

The child feels pain to reap the benefit of the vaccination.

An example of when a child would be suffering would be eating so little that his body must live off of its own tissue, but he cannot die because the pirates that enslave him at gunpoint feed him juuust enough to prevent his death and keep him working.

He has nothing to gain from that, so it’s different than short term pain. Its suffering.
 
GodHeals said:
Hello,

How do we understand the scriptures, especially the Psalms when they talk about God protecting us, but at the same time allows suffering and death?

I have also heard Blessed Mother Mary, the Angels, and Saints (in Heaven) can protect us through their intercession. How does this work, like do they somehow thwart the enemy and evil intentions of people through physically putting Loving thoughts in their head though the people still need to choose good?

Or do they somehow alter the world (natural laws that cannot be changed?) we live in some other way to protect us? Of course, this question applies to how God protects us too, and ultimately.

Thank you for your thoughts!
God Bless you!
Click to expand...
Such involves long discussions of evil…of free will. Of sin. Of love. Of how God is outside of time all time is present before him (what is past present future for us). Miracles. How God includes our choices in things. Secondary causation. That God can change things that would otherwise occur. How he can bring good out of evil. How prayer is included. etc etc Many would be the works written on such…too long would be the discussion for a forum…
 
Do we profess that God protects us and pray for this? Yes. Do we profess that Our Lady and the Saints can pray for us for such? Yes.

Does such mean that we will have no suffering or danger in this life? no. But God can bring out of even such evils that may occur during this brief pilgrimage-- that which is good.

Let us pray and mediate on those Scriptures as a school of trust. Let us turn to God “who never allows us to fall from his hands” -to the Good Shepherd who loves us and accompanies us. Even carrying us upon is shoulders.

"Moreover, our radical belonging to Christ and the fact that “we are in him” must imbue in us an attitude of total trust and immense joy. In short, we must indeed exclaim with St Paul: “If God is for us, who is against us?” (Rom 8: 31). And the reply is that nothing and no one “will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom 8: 39). Our Christian life, therefore, stands on the soundest and safest rock one can imagine. And from it we draw all our energy, precisely as the Apostle wrote: “I can do all things in him who strengthens me” (Phil 4: 13).

Therefore, let us face our life with its joys and sorrows supported by these great sentiments that Paul offers to us. By having an experience of them we will realize how true are the words the Apostle himself wrote: “I know whom I have believed, and I am sure that he is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me”; in other words, until the Day (II Tm 1: 12) of our definitive meeting with Christ the Judge, Saviour of the world and our Saviour."

~ Pope Benedict XVI

Wednesday, 8 November 2006
 
Gaerteuth said:
If God is able to prevent evil, but not willing, he is malevolent.
Click to expand...
No, his not malevolent. He respects our decision to use his gift of free will as WE desire rather than how he desires. God is Love.

So which do you chose:
Let thy will be done
or
Let MY will be done.
 
Do we profess that God protects us and pray for this? Yes. Do we profess that Our Lady and the Saints can pray for us for such? Yes.

Does such mean that we will have no suffering or danger in this life? no. But God can bring out of even such evils that may occur during this brief pilgrimage-- that which is good.

Let us pray and mediate on those Scriptures as a school of trust. Let us turn to God “who never allows us to fall from his hands” -to the Good Shepherd who loves us and accompanies us. Even carrying us upon is shoulders.

“St Paul’s words on Christian life in general also apply to our prayers: “I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom 8:38-39).”

~Pope Benedict XVI Wednesday, 7 March 2012

“we can repeat with firm hope the words of Saint Paul: “Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will hardship, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? … No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us” (Rom 8:35,37).”

~Pope Benedict XVI Good Friday, 6 April 2012

"Moreover, our radical belonging to Christ and the fact that “we are in him” must imbue in us an attitude of total trust and immense joy. In short, we must indeed exclaim with St Paul: “If God is for us, who is against us?” (Rom 8: 31). And the reply is that nothing and no one “will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom 8: 39). Our Christian life, therefore, stands on the soundest and safest rock one can imagine. And from it we draw all our energy, precisely as the Apostle wrote: “I can do all things in him who strengthens me” (Phil 4: 13).

Therefore, let us face our life with its joys and sorrows supported by these great sentiments that Paul offers to us. By having an experience of them we will realize how true are the words the Apostle himself wrote: “I know whom I have believed, and I am sure that he is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me”; in other words, until the Day (II Tm 1: 12) of our definitive meeting with Christ the Judge, Saviour of the world and our Saviour."

~ Pope Benedict XVI

Wednesday, 8 November 2006
 
Suffering exists because the world is imperfect. It is imperfect as a result of Adam and Eves disobedience.

PS- There is absolutely zero suffering in Heaven.
 
Gaerteuth said:
Pain and suffering are two different things.

The child feels pain to reap the benefit of the vaccination.

An example of when a child would be suffering would be eating so little that his body must live off of its own tissue, but he cannot die because the pirates that enslave him at gunpoint feed him juuust enough to prevent his death and keep him working.

He has nothing to gain from that, so it’s different than short term pain. Its suffering.
Click to expand...
It’s an analogy meant to point the way to the answer, which is the himan suffering serves a purpose and thus God is neither malevolent nor impotent.

St Patrick, for instance, was captured by priates and sold as a slave in Ireland. This suffering caused him to turn to God and become a great saint.
 
St_Francis said:
It’s an analogy meant to point the way to the answer, which is the himan suffering serves a purpose and thus God is neither malevolent nor impotent.

St Patrick, for instance, was captured by priates and sold as a slave in Ireland. This suffering caused him to turn to God and become a great saint.
Click to expand...
…And all analogies will ultimately breakdown to failure, because they are flawed through man-made reasoning.

Back to the OP, it is very hard to understand the Bible due the many, many possible interpretations and “apparent” contradictions. That is why the Catholic Church emphasizes an authority to do the heavy lifting for you.

Most of the time, you will get the greater good or free will as standard defense to suffering in the world. I take the more direct approach. The most straight forward answer you can get is that God is God, and so he can do what he wants. In other words, when he chooses to intervene, he intervenes. When he chooses to hold back, for whatever reason, he holds back. Simple as that.
 
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