God's Soldiers Quote

[CatholicSpirit]

I found a quote that is probably supposed to be perceived as uplifting. However, some people have said that it is inaccurate and debatable.



Does anyone have thoughts or feelings about it?

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Who is Katie Schubert?

 

[reggieM]

I like it.
Maybe someone will say “it’s not in strength but weakness” - something like St. Paul said.
But a look at the lives of the saints …
Yes, that is the spiritual path. As we get stronger, God allows harder battles to come our way.
And the paradox is, the battles may actually seem harder for beginners because they don’t have the faith weapons built up. But classic Catholic teaching - God gives a lot of consolations to beginners to get them up and running, build confidence, teach them the joys awaiting.
Once you’re convinced, very solid in that belief - then the harder, dryer, darker times are allowed and you find you can handle them.
That’s where the merit is.

 

[FrDavid96]

Sayings like this can be cute…but

They’re very dangerous theologically speaking.

God does not “give” us burdens or battles. This kind of thinking leads one to think that God sits up there in heaven and says things like “I’m going to make that one unemployed today” or “I’m going to set that family’s house on fire” or “I’m going to give that one some terrible disease.” It’s a horrible way of thinking about God, when we follow it to the natural conclusion.

No, God does not give us battles or problems. Those things happen. Thinking that God imposes such problems on people is not only superstitious but it says that God is mean, unfair, capricious,…I could go on and on. It’s really a terrible way to think of how God interacts with His people.

These sayings are well-meaning and often very cute and appealing on the surface but they are a horrible way to think about God.

 

[DebChris]

I’ve read it before. It’s meant to be encouraging for those who are facing difficult times.
It’s like many posters, from “If life gives you lemons, make lemonade” meant to change attitude,even in the midst of a situation that may seem daunting.
Words always have limits. Jesus said, “Apart from me, you can do nothing, but with God all things are possible.” It can be read as being prepared for the battle front, as a soldier is prepared for war. That doesn’t mean that a soldier stops training. Prayer continues to be an important part of daily life. God is with us every step of the way.
It has been said that a martyr, which means witness, is prepared, for that path. Not all of us will give his life for the kingdom of God. There are daily struggles that prepare a person who has been so chosen.

I put it among the posters that say “Trust in God, but row for shore.” It’s a simple platitude to not give up.
As Fr. David reminds us, Jesus also said, “My yoke is easy and my burden light.”

 

[SJacob7]

Sayings like this can be cute…but

They’re very dangerous theologically speaking.

God does not “give” us burdens or battles. This kind of thinking leads one to think that God sits up there in heaven and says things like “I’m going to make that one unemployed today” or “I’m going to set that family’s house on fire” or “I’m going to give that one some terrible disease.” It’s a horrible way of thinking about God, when we follow it to the natural conclusion.

No, God does not give us battles or problems. Those things happen. Thinking that God imposes such problems on people is not only superstitious but it says that God is mean, unfair, capricious,…I could go on and on. It’s really a terrible way to think of how God interacts with His people.

These sayings are well-meaning and often very cute and appealing on the surface but they are a horrible way to think about God.

But God does test us. There are many examples of that. Some of those tests can be hard. In other situations He allows things to happen. Take a look at the book of Job!

 

[reggieM]

No, God does not give us battles or problems. Those things happen.

I see it differently.
Nothing “just happens”. If so, it would be as if God was not involved in His own creation.
God allows sufferings to come upon us. Just as happened to Our Lord. It wasn’t just a random accident.
Of course, God gives us a Cross to carry. Why would Jesus tell us if we don’t take our Cross we are not worthy of Him?
The Cross is given to us by God. The stronger we are, the heavier the Cross Our Dear Lord blesses us with!

 

[FrDavid96]

I see it differently.
Nothing “just happens”. If so, it would be as if God was not involved in His own creation.
God allows sufferings to come upon us. Just as happened to Our Lord. It wasn’t just a random accident.
Of course, God gives us a Cross to carry. Why would Jesus tell us if we don’t take our Cross we are not worthy of Him?
The Cross is given to us by God. The stronger we are, the heavier the Cross Our Dear Lord blesses us with!

No, God does not give us crosses to carry. The world gives us crosses (as metaphors for our problems and trials, of course), not God.

God allows suffering because this world is Fallen in sin. He does not impose suffering on us, certainly not as a consequence of our faith in Him.

I wish you could see that another way to phrase what you posted would be to say that the more faithful we are to God, the more He punishes us for that fidelity.

Suffering does not come from God. It is a consequence of Original Sin. Christ came to relieve our suffering.

So you not see how saying that suffering is imposed on us by God contradicts so much of what we believe?

 

[DebChris]

No, God does not give us crosses to carry. The world gives us crosses (as metaphors for our problems and trials, of course), not God.

God allows suffering because this world is Fallen in sin. He does not impose suffering on us, certainly not as a consequence of our faith in Him.

I wish you could see that another way to phrase what you posted would be to say that the more faithful we are to God, the more He punishes us for that fidelity.

Suffering does not come from God. It is a consequence of Original Sin. Christ came to relieve our suffering.

So you not see how saying that suffering is imposed on us by God contradicts so much of what we believe?

I don’t see God as punishing us. I do see Him preparing us for what lies ahead.

Bishop Curling helped Mother Theresa with the dark night of the soul that she felt during her lifetime. “Incense always goes upward.” Not everybody is called to work in the streets of Calcutta with the poorest of the poor. During her lifetime, she advised those who felt so called to first look in their own neighborhoods. If they could not endure the work necessary where they were, how could they endure Calcutta? Detroit and New York were just as in need.

At the closing of Mass, we are called to “go and serve the Lord”? In what capacity are we called? Are we called to the front lines, or to serve humbly in the rear? Not everybody is a prophet or leader. The job of the servant who sets out the chairs for a charismatic conference is just as important as the person who proclaims God’s Word from the altar. He just may not be as visible. A doctor in a hospital may diagnose what is wrong with a patient, but every person on the team contributes to helping the person become well again, including the patient. What caused the patient’s illness in the first place was lifestyle, an accident, or germ.

Some of us do face difficult spiritual battles.Does a commander send his soldier into battle unprepared? We have the rosary, and other prayers. We have the Mass, and the indelible marks of the Sacraments. We have the indwelling Spirit by virtue of Confirmation, and whatever gifts that God wishes to provide. He who is in us is greater than he who is in the world.
A soldier also follows lawful orders, and goes where commanded. I am not God, and need not be more than He calls me to be.

 

[FrDavid96]

I don’t see God as punishing us. I do see Him preparing us for what lies ahead.

Bishop Curling helped Mother Theresa with the dark night of the soul that she felt during her lifetime. “Incense always goes upward.” Not everybody is called to work in the streets of Calcutta with the poorest of the poor. During her lifetime, she advised those who felt so called to first look in their own neighborhoods. If they could not endure the work necessary where they were, how could they endure Calcutta? Detroit and New York were just as in need.

At the closing of Mass, we are called to “go and serve the Lord”? In what capacity are we called? Are we called to the front lines, or to serve humbly in the rear? Not everybody is a prophet or leader. The job of the servant who sets out the chairs for a charismatic conference is just as important as the person who proclaims God’s Word from the altar. He just may not be as visible. A doctor in a hospital may diagnose what is wrong with a patient, but every person on the team contributes to helping the person become well again, including the patient. What caused the patient’s illness in the first place was lifestyle, an accident, or germ.

Some of us do face difficult spiritual battles.Does a commander send his soldier into battle unprepared? We have the rosary, and other prayers. We have the Mass, and the indelible marks of the Sacraments. We have the indwelling Spirit by virtue of Confirmation, and whatever gifts that God wishes to provide. He who is in us is greater than he who is in the world.
A soldier also follows lawful orders, and goes where commanded. I am not God, and need not be more than He calls me to be.

What you aren’t seeing is this:

I am saying that God does not cause the suffering in the world.

What you are addressing is how we react to that suffering, as His people.

I am saying that God does not make one person sick so that another person (ie doctor) can do His work on earth. Neither does God look down and say “that person over there is very faithful to me, therefore I’m going to strike him with some terrible disease.”

 

[FrDavid96]

But God does test us. There are many examples of that. Some of those tests can be hard. In other situations He allows things to happen. Take a look at the book of Job!

Yes, do take a look at the book of Job.

Read it.

If you do, you’ll find that all of Jobs sufferings were inflicted upon him by the Tempter, not by God.

 

[reggieM]

No, God does not give us crosses to carry. The world gives us crosses (as metaphors for our problems and trials, of course), not God.

God allows suffering because this world is Fallen in sin. He does not impose suffering on us, certainly not as a consequence of our faith in Him.

I wish you could see that another way to phrase what you posted would be to say that the more faithful we are to God, the more He punishes us for that fidelity.

Suffering does not come from God. It is a consequence of Original Sin. Christ came to relieve our suffering.

So you not see how saying that suffering is imposed on us by God contradicts so much of what we believe?

Suffering is a blessing that we can offer to God for ourselves and for others.
No, I don’t see where suffering is necessarily evil. Our Lord taught us to embrace the Cross. If suffering was evil we would run from it.
Of course, Our Blessed Lord imposes suffering upon us due to our sins.
“God chastises those who He loves”.
We are all thankful that through suffering in Purgatory, we can be purified for heaven.
Suffering is the means that God gave us make to reparation for sin – what a gift!
Jesus lets us share in His Cross - if we are willing.

I wish you could see that another way to phrase what you posted would be to say that the more faithful we are to God, the more He punishes us for that fidelity.

You’re assuming that suffering is necessarily a punishment.
We can look at the saints - even the most innocent. Look at the martyrs.

Plus I’m going Way beyond what the slogan says.
It says “God gives his hardest Battles”.
it doesn’t even say suffering.
A battle is not necessarily an evil. It’s not necessarily even a suffering.

 

[DebChris]

What you aren’t seeing is this:

I am saying that God does not cause the suffering in the world.

What you are addressing is how we react to that suffering, as His people.

I am saying that God does not make one person sick so that another person (ie doctor) can do His work on earth. Neither does God look down and say “that person over there is very faithful to me, therefore I’m going to strike him with some terrible disease.”

I think that is precisely what I said.
The doctor doesn’t cause the illness. Neither does God.
He does give each of us different roles in life, different abilities, and different gifts.
The nurse is no less important than the doctor, who is no more important than the janitor who makes sure that the surgical area is kept clean.
Maximilian Kolbe did not simply one day ask to take the place of another prisoner in a Nazi prison camp. He was prepared to witness for Christ within the darkness of where he was. The attitude of the prisoners condemned with him throughout their ordeal confounded those who were there.

 

[FrDavid96]

Suffering is a blessing that we can offer to God for ourselves and for others.
No, I don’t see where suffering is necessarily evil. Our Lord taught us to embrace the Cross. If suffering was evil we would run from it.

We do! That’s exactly what we do in the Anointing of the Sick. We pray for God to deliver us from both sin and suffering, which go hand-in-hand.

Of course, Our Blessed Lord imposes suffering upon us due to our sins.
“God chastises those who He loves”.
We are all thankful that through suffering in Purgatory, we can be purified for heaven.
Suffering is the means that God gave us make to reparation for sin – what a gift!
Jesus lets us share in His Cross - if we are willing.

You’re assuming that suffering is necessarily a punishment.
We can look at the saints - even the most innocent. Look at the martyrs.

Plus I’m going Way beyond what the slogan says.
It says “God gives his hardest Battles”.
it doesn’t even say suffering.
A battle is not necessarily an evil. It’s not necessarily even a suffering.

I’m sorry to say this but your post expresses a fundamental misunderstanding the gift of the Incarnation.

Christ came to relieve our suffering, to free us from it. In no way, none whatsoever, does God cause us to suffer any afflictions.

Suffering is a consequence of Original Sin. It is not, repeat not, a “blessing” from God. It is quite the opposite.

Strength to overcome is a blessing from God. Perseverance is a blessing. Humility and a spirit of penance are blessings.

I suggest you read the words for the Sacrament of Anointing of the Sick. We do not pray thanking God for inflicting suffering on someone. Instead, we pray, and fervently at that, for relief from suffering.

It’s really disturbing that Catholics would think this way about suffering–that it’s some kind of blessing.

If suffering were a blessing, then the Gospels would be filled with examples of Christ going around inflicting pain and illnesses on people. Are you aware that in the Gospels, Christ always (yes, always) heals the sick and never inflicts sickness?

If what you say were true, we’d be reading in the Gospel the following events:

–Christ makes the man blind
–Christ makes the walker into a paralytic
–Christ kills the widow’s son
–Christ makes the woman bleed for years
–Christ tears off the servant’s ear
–Christ blesses Martha and Mary by putting their brother Lazarus into the grave
–Christ takes bread from poor people so that they can suffer more

Where are these events in the Gospel if suffering is a blessing?

Perhaps I’m familiar with a different version of the Gospels than the one you’re reading, because mine tell me the exact opposite. Christ healed people. He did it over and over again.

Are you not aware that in the Gospels Christ frees people from their suffering and illnesses? Really, have you never seen that?

Suffering is no blessing. It is a consequence of sin. Overcoming the suffering can be a blessing.

 

[DebChris]

What type of loving father wants his children to suffer?
Christ died once and for all for our sins. There’s no need to hang on to them. We have the Sacrament of Reconciliation.
Were we capable of our own Salvation, then there would have been no need for the incarnation.
Is there a Spiritual Battle? Of course.
It is written that the righteous man sin seven times a day. As Christians we have an Advocate fighting on our behalf.The battle is not ours alone.
If we think that we are in the battle unarmed, then the Cross was in vain.

It is not a matter of God not giving us more than we can handle. God doesn’t give us more than we can handle together. He who is within me is greater than he who is in the world.

 

[reggieM]

There is a Crossless Christianity that people want to proclaim but it’s not the true Faith. I know, it’s very popular for people to think that the Cross is something to avoid. As I said, Jesus warned we have to take up our Cross or we cannot be His disciples.

St. Paul in Philippians calls this:
For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.

We all have this tendency - I fight against it all the time. But it’s by embracing the Cross that we follow Jesus. We often want to be enemies of the Cross.

St. Paul teaches clearly, Hebrews 12

My son, neglect not the discipline of the Lord; neither be thou wearied whilst thou art rebuked by him.

6 For whom the Lord loveth, he chastiseth; and he scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7 Persevere under discipline. God dealeth with you as with his sons; for what son is there, whom the father doth not correct?

8 But** if you be without chastisement, whereof all are made partakers, then are you bastards, and not sons**.

9 Moreover we have had fathers of our flesh, for instructors, and we reverenced them: shall we not much more obey the Father of spirits, and live?

10 And they indeed for a few days, according to their own pleasure, instructed us: but he, for our profit, that we might receive his sanctification.

11 Now all chastisement for the present indeed seemeth not to bring with it joy, but sorrow: but afterwards it will yield, to them that are exercised by it, the most peaceable fruit of justice.

12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees,

13 And make straight steps with your feet: that no one, halting, may go out of the way; but rather be healed.

Our loving Father scourges and corrects us. What father would not correct his son? Suffering is required in this world if you want to achieve anything. If you want to learn - you have to suffer. If you want to get stronger, you have to suffer. If you want to do good works for others - you have to suffer. If you want a good marriage - you have to sacrifice and suffer for it.

The Cross is like a key - that opens up the door to greater joys.

 

[reggieM]

We do! That’s exactly what we do in the Anointing of the Sick. We pray for God to deliver us from both sin and suffering, which go hand-in-hand.

I understand your view here, but we need to be careful about identifying a person’s suffering with their own sin. But in any case, why would Satan cause a sinner to suffer? No - he wants the sinner to have joy in doing evil. Suffering is what can turn us away from sin - just as a good parent causes some hurt to the child by disciplining. That hurt prevents more evil in the future. This is pretty basic stuff.

If suffering were a blessing, then the Gospels would be filled with examples of Christ going around inflicting pain and illnesses on people. Are you aware that in the Gospels, Christ always (yes, always) heals the sick and never inflicts sickness?

You’re making a categorical error here in defining suffering as sickness.
Jesus, as far as the Gospels tell us, never got sick. So, you’re saying He never suffered?
Have you ever had someone insult you? Have you ever had someone humiliate you? Have you ever been rebuked for doing something wrong? If so, would you call those acts of suffering that you endured?

Are you not aware that in the Gospels Christ frees people from their suffering and illnesses? Really, have you never seen that?

Well, it’s pretty simple and yes, perhaps we’re reading different Gospels (and Epistles since you’ve seemed to miss Hebrews 12), but of course Our Lord caused people to suffer. That’s why they killed Him. Think about it.

Overcoming the suffering can be a blessing.

If you didn’t have the suffering, then you couldn’t overcome it, and so you wouldn’t have this blessing.
But I understand what you’re saying.
I guess we’ll just have to disagree.

 

[FrDavid96]

I understand your view here, but we need to be careful about identifying a person’s suffering with their own sin. But in any case, why would Satan cause a sinner to suffer? No - he wants the sinner to have joy in doing evil. Suffering is what can turn us away from sin - just as a good parent causes some hurt to the child by disciplining. That hurt prevents more evil in the future. This is pretty basic stuff.

You’re making a categorical error here in defining suffering as sickness.
Jesus, as far as the Gospels tell us, never got sick. So, you’re saying He never suffered?
Have you ever had someone insult you? Have you ever had someone humiliate you? Have you ever been rebuked for doing something wrong? If so, would you call those acts of suffering that you endured?

Well, it’s pretty simple and yes, perhaps we’re reading different Gospels (and Epistles since you’ve seemed to miss Hebrews 12), but of course Our Lord caused people to suffer. That’s why they killed Him. Think about it.

If you didn’t have the suffering, then you couldn’t overcome it, and so you wouldn’t have this blessing.
But I understand what you’re saying.
I guess we’ll just have to disagree.

The error in what you write is that you are conflating two different things.

You are confused because you don’t see the difference between

a–suffering
b–the Christian reaction to suffering.

That’s what you are misunderstanding. You are trying to take those 2 ideas and make them the same. They are not.

It is an important distinction which you are not making. Instead, you’re doing the opposite by equating the two.

Suffering is not a blessing. Instead, it is quite the opposite. It is part of the curse imposed on Adam, or to put that another way, the result of Original Sin. Christ came to free us from that, not to impose it upon us.

Suffering comes from sin, not from God.

 

[reggieM]

Suffering is not a blessing.

I can see that you didn’t want to address what I had to say.
Adam & Eve - O Felix culpa
God allowed a universe where there would be temptations and sufferings. As St. Thomas Aquinas explains, “so that greater good would come from it”.
God is all Justice. In allowing his children the possiblity of sin, God also created the possiblity that they would be separated from Him forever. That is the price of freedom - that is the risk that God took in giving humanity integrity and choice to love or not.

You have the mistaken belief that we must do everything we can to avoid suffering on this earth. This is totally false in the Catholic perspective. There are abundant examples among the lives of the saints. Someone mentioned St. Maximillian Kolbe. He was not required to put himself in a gas chamber. He chose suffering willingly - and did not run from it.

I don’t know your background. You sign yourself as “Fr” - that means little to me on an internet forum unless you want to give your name and diocese. I’ve had long discussions when men who claimed to be priests who were invalidly ordained schismatics … and other such things.
So, if you are a real priest (and even if not) - I think it would be best to re-frame your theology so that you bring an appreciation for the value of suffering into it, and get rid of the notion that suffering is universally something to avoid and run from.

Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you.** But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ**, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, **you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.
** 1 Peter 4:12

So they went on their way from the presence of the Council,** rejoicing **that they had been considered worthy to suffer shame for His name. Acts 5:41

and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ,** if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him**. Romans 8:17

that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; Philippians 3:10

and our hope for you is firmly grounded, knowing that as you are sharers of our sufferings, so also you are sharers of our comfort. 2 Corinthians 1:7

"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Matt 5:11

Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong. 2 Corinthians 12:10

a–suffering
b–the Christian reaction to suffering.

When I say you are blessed to suffer for Christ’s sake – that is a Christian reaction to suffering.

 

[FrDavid96]

I can see that you didn’t want to address what I had to say.
Adam & Eve - O Felix culpa
God allowed a universe where there would be temptations and sufferings. As St. Thomas Aquinas explains, “so that greater good would come from it”.
God is all Justice. In allowing his children the possiblity of sin, God also created the possiblity that they would be separated from Him forever. That is the price of freedom - that is the risk that God took in giving humanity integrity and choice to love or not.

You have the mistaken belief that we must do everything we can to avoid suffering on this earth. This is totally false in the Catholic perspective. There are abundant examples among the lives of the saints. Someone mentioned St. Maximillian Kolbe. He was not required to put himself in a gas chamber. He chose suffering willingly - and did not run from it.

I don’t know your background. You sign yourself as “Fr” - that means little to me on an internet forum unless you want to give your name and diocese. I’ve had long discussions when men who claimed to be priests who were invalidly ordained schismatics … and other such things.
So, if you are a real priest (and even if not) - I think it would be best to re-frame your theology so that you bring an appreciation for the value of suffering into it, and get rid of the notion that suffering is universally something to avoid and run from.

Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you.** But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ**, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, **you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.
** 1 Peter 4:12

So they went on their way from the presence of the Council,** rejoicing **that they had been considered worthy to suffer shame for His name. Acts 5:41

and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ,** if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him**. Romans 8:17

that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; Philippians 3:10

and our hope for you is firmly grounded, knowing that as you are sharers of our sufferings, so also you are sharers of our comfort. 2 Corinthians 1:7

"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Matt 5:11

Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong. 2 Corinthians 12:10

When I say you are blessed to suffer for Christ’s sake – that is a Christian reaction to suffering.

You are falsely characterizing what I am saying—greatly so.

Suffering is not a blessing from God. It is a consequence of Original Sin, which is one of the most basic and fundamental beliefs of the Christian faith. I suggest you read what the Catechism has to say and what the Church teaches elsewhere (such as the encyclicals of St John Paul II) about suffering.

Your ignorance of the subject is no excuse for you to insinuate that I am some kind of imposter priest. In fact, it shows that since you have nothing legitimate to say about what I’ve written, you’ll resort to personal attacks instead.

The suffering of the martyrs, such as St Maximillian Kolbe, was not a blessing given to them by God, it is instead a consequence of a fallen world, a result of the sin of others (ie the Nazis).

God did not send St Maximillian to the gas chamber, the Nazis did that!

God accepted the saint’s suffering. He did not impose it.

You have a very perverted and twisted notion of God if you think that He imposes suffering as a blessing.

You are failing to make an essential distinction:
**
You are confusing the fact that suffering may result in blessing with the perverted notion that suffering itself is a blessing.** The teaching of the Church is quite clear on this, as I’ve been saying all along. It is a consequence of Original Sin. God frees us from suffering, and it is the exact opposite of a blessing.