Gods view in homosexuality

[Seeker1961]

No, the word gay does mean you want to be accepted in the homosexual world because I wouldn’t say anything to define who you want to have sex with. Why do people need to know something that should be personal? Unless you want to be accepted in both worlds. I don’t tell people I am straight that is not who I am. I don’t say anything. You are defining yourself by your sexual preference. I am what God intended for me to be a human being, I don’t have to separate myself into a category other than knowing I am a male or female. My problems don’t define me, but my living a holy life does.

The reason why we Catholics should not use the word Gay is because it means the acceptance to the homosexual lifestyle. That is what the activists want you to say so your one of them. It sounds like it is a happy lifestyle and it is not. People who come here can figure out that it is not a put down to have said they are SSA if you explain why. That is what they have is it not an attraction to the same sex? But to define yourself GAY is the only word that is used for the world that thinks you are a practicing homosexual. Why would you want to tell them that? Is that a badge of honor for a Catholic to say this? If for some reason you lose your Same Sex Attraction and you have told everyone you know that you are Gay, then that is always how they are going to look at you. It is something to be proud of? That is why the word GAY is used to be proud of it. Why do you think they have GAY pride parades. Ever witness one? I wouldn’t want a young child to see the perversion that they display. Do you want to be part of this because you want to identify yourself as Gay? This push for being gay is pretty evident in this culture and we are not suppose to be in the world. We are supposed to follow Jesus. Try your best to live a holy life and set a good example. I don’t believe Jesus would want you to call yourself Gay to follow people that are obviously not looking out for your best interests. Just my thoughts
GB

I believe that what Jesus wants for ALL of us is to bring more people to Him. I use the terms that the world uses because the world is full of people that Jesus wants us to bring to Him. When I talk to another gay person about my life, and I tell them that I’m gay and Catholic-I get to start a dialogue. I get to explain how despite what they hear, God doesn’t hate them, and the Church doesn’t hate them. I get to tell them that my life is happier now than it ever was before-and I didn’t have to “turn straight” or define myself like I had a disease to get to that point. By using those words, I can reach young people, gay and straight, who have turned away from the Church because of what they think the Church is-based on the language they have heard. By using the terms of the world, I get to keep a door open that might otherwise have been closed. Who knows? Maybe a seed I plant may someday lead someone to change their life. Even if I make one person view the Church differently, I call that a win.

The world does not use the word “gay” in the way you use it. To those outside the church, “gay” means attracted to the same sex. It is only in religious circles that “gay” means a feather boa, multiple partners and all the other stereotypes. (BTW-I have actually been to the NYC gay pride parade and only the drag queens get on TV, the “boring” gay people who have regular lives aren’t interesting enough)

I ask this again and again here…what is the real goal? Is it to open the doors and bring people in? Or is it to keep those doors shut tight, and make anyone who dares to knock pass a test before entering?

 

[InSearchofGrace]

Rondeau might be expected critique the use of the term ‘gay’ as a political manoeuvre by gay activists but then he would because he is a conservative Christian writer who naturally opposes the political manoeuvres of gay activists… Therefore it’s perfectly reasonable to take his conclusions** as naturally biased by his own political outlook on life.**

I think it is remiss to discount the history and analysis as outlined in Rondreau’s scholarly paper, because he has a Christian bias, as you indicated above. I urge you to read it, if you have not, in its entirety with the end notes.

I don’t think it’s particularly respectful to implicitly accuse me of being biased, whether or not you preface your statement with “respectfully”.

My points are not biased one way or the other - this isn’t about being on ‘sides’ that accept or reject homosexual activism. This is about using language in such a way as it gets through to the people on the street corner.

…

Until you reacted negatively to my “implicit accusation” that you are being biased, I did not think it would be an issue as having a bias is not necessarily a bad thing. You took offense where none was intended. “Bias” means belief in one way or partiality.

We have an honest difference in opinion here. Btw, I also have a Christian bias, which I don’t disavow – I don’t use it to disadvantage anybody. When I buy Christmas cards to mail to friends and neighbors, I always pick the ones that say Merry Christmas, not Happy Holidays.

It could be bad where a judge is biased or partial on a material issue in a case on which he is to give a ruling, but it is not necessarily a bad thing in other business and social applications. My sister owns and runs a small French bistro. When her teen daughter asked to be a server in order to earn money, and a non-relative with more experience applied for the same job, she hired her daughter. Clear bias. A bad thing? No. It is like discrimination, which is more than not thrown around as an offense when it also has a favorable or neutral application. Unless one lives in very few societies where still accepted, people and the law for instance discriminate against a marriage between an adult male and a child bride, even if the child is purportedly willing to be his wife.

The Church thru its leadership refers to homosexual persons, not gays, for a reason. Authoritative bishops and priests have spoken and written about the position as well. Regardless of the success and widespread acceptance of the homosexual agenda’s promotion of the use of “gay” to include active and non-active or celibate homosexuals, the argument you and others make, in my opinion, only help perhaps unintentionally associated and oxymoronic concepts like gay ‘marriage.’ And claims that same sex pairs are capable of providing equivalent parenting that a child needs from a mother and father.

The thought that if we follow counsel by the leaders of our faith, not going along with the misguided laity, Catholics are being hateful or don’t like gays is not true. The misimpression needs correction, not validation.

The rest of your post is repetition of points to which counters have been made by me and others.
,

 

[DexUK]

The thought that if we follow counsel by the leaders of our faith, not going along with the misguided laity, Catholics are being hateful or don’t like gays is not true. The misimpression needs correction, not validation.

The rest of your post is repetition of points to which counters have been made by me and others.

My point, again (because nobody seems to have recognised it yet), is that we need to consider the pastoral application of our words in the real world.

I know what you mean by ‘gay’. I’m within the Church and very active in it indeed. I speak the language. The trouble comes when what we say is lost in translation or, worse, corrupted into something that’s perceived in a negative light when it’s not meant negatively.

It’s all very well saying we should educate people in the correct usage of the language, but that’s not a realistic prospect is it? There’s so much of our perception of the history of the subject that we’d have to get across at the same time that it can never now be a practical proposition to do so. And yet we, all of us, know how the world perceives and understands the language so why do we waste time fighting for the old meanings of the words? The world has upped and passed us by in that regard. No wonder we’re regularly accused of being out of date and out of touch! In fact I was having that same conversation with a friend just a few hours ago, totally independently of this debate here. If we want to be heard we have to talk in a way that is contemporary and relevant to people’s lives.

I’m more than capable of talking in old fashioned legalistic terms (no doubt to others’ intense boredom) but I recognise that I have to modify my language to suit my audience if I want them to understand me. That’s language, not views. My views remain the same. I honestly don’t know why others in this great Church of ours can’t get to grips with this. It smacks of pride combined with stubbornness to me. There’s so much we stand to win if we start talking and behaving in ways that people can understand better. Surely that prize is worth it?

 

[Kolbe300]

The charitable thing to do is to have a public conversation about the meanings of terms and the real effects of language on bullying, political manipulation, and other strong-arm tactics.

A public conversation about the meanings of terms? That’s the charitable thing to do right now? Is that really the most important thing right now? Have you seen the public conversations on CAF about these terms (like this one, for instance)? They don’t work.

Those [conversations] work both ways, which is what InSearchOfGrace and others have been asserting

.

They wouldn’t work both ways, not at all. Posters like yourself have made it clear what they “believe” the word gay does and should mean. And you’ve made it clear that it’s your way or the highway when it comes to the word gay. That’s not a two way conversation.

It is precisely communication that needs to be honed to get the truth across, without forsaking charity. Charity is not sentimentalism. It is not capitulation.

But that’s just it. Communication doesn’t need to be honed to get the truth across. All one needs to do is understand and accept the fact that many people use the word gay and homosexual who are not a part of any gay activism, nor sexually active. That is a FACT. If we realize that, we’ll stop making assumptions and we’ll be able to get to the heart of the matter, which has nothing at all to do with the definition of words.

As Christians, we have the duty to communicate the truth of what offends God as far as the thread is concerned.

And that can be done in a charitable way without ever demanding that both sides agree to your preferred definition of any word in the English language.

No, the word gay does mean you want to be accepted in the homosexual world because I wouldn’t say anything to define who you want to have sex with.

No, the word gay doesn’t always mean that. When I told my family and close friends about my sexual orientation, I used the word gay. I have never had a person assume I’m sexually active or a part of some agenda because of it. The real world understands the real world’s definition of the word. And that definition depends on the person using it. Again, this is a FACT.

Why do people need to know something that should be personal? Unless you want to be accepted in both worlds. I don’t tell people I am straight that is not who I am.

Have you ever wondered why it always seems to be heterosexual people that make the comment you just did? That’s because you’re likely never faced with a situation where you do need to specify your sexuality. Everyone just assumes you’re straight. Just like they assumed I was. While that won’t create a conflict for you, it does for me.

The reason why we Catholics should not use the word Gay is because it means the acceptance to the homosexual lifestyle.

No, the word gay does not always mean that. Again, that is a FACT.

The rest of your post is repetition of points to which counters have been made by me and others,

And your counters make no sense at all, unless your entire goal is to fight over a word. Dex has been spot on this entire thread. How what he says is hard to understand is simply beyond me.

'Round and 'Round we go, folks! Ya’ll drive me batty, but I love you anyways!

 

[Kolbe300]

My point, again (because nobody seems to have recognised it yet), is that we need to consider the pastoral application of our words in the real world.

Dex, for whatever it’s worth, I get your point. I completely get it. If others don’t get it, it’s not because you’ve done a poor job explaining it.

 

[DexUK]

No, it is the cowardly, pandering, ingratiating, and possibly even dishonest thing to do, unless it advances understanding (which in the instances cited it does not). The charitable thing to do is to have a public conversation about the meanings of terms and the real effects of language on bullying, political manipulation, and other strong-arm tactics. Those work both ways, which is what InSearchOfGrace and others have been asserting.

I’m in the education business, so I’m sorry, but you’re definitely barking up the wrong tree here. Every day I re-educate my students about true etymology vs. popular misuse or misunderstanding. I’ll keep re-educating; you can keep surrendering if you prefer to interpret that as “charity.” Some of my students encounter the word “gay” in classic literature when we read that together, and I instruct them in the correct definition of the word, each time, for which they always thank me. (Just one of many examples.) And no, these students are not in any kind of religious context, but a secular one. It’s my job to educate, not to pander.

To ‘ingratiate’ is to bring oneself into favour by pleasing a person.

Surely we please a person by giving them access to and understanding of the real fundamental loving truths of Christianity in a way that they understand?

With that in mind, I’m more than willing to ingratiate Christianity into the hearts and minds of others by using language in the way that they use it rather than the way I use it.

To whom am I causing harm by doing so?

You want to bring ordinary people over to Catholicism? You don’t shout at them “Christianismus est optimus rei cum divisa panem. Latine dictum, scire debes” - they wouldn’t gave a clue what you meant. We don’t talk to people in Latin and expect them to understand, so why do we use a version of English that they don’t understand? That we insist on doing so totally mystifies me.

 

[fix]

The terms are used to define reality in terms that can be use to communicate with others, just like other words.

You seem to assume this is entirely intentional.

They obfuscate reality. The words are political tools.

You don’t have to be buying what they are pushing to be bothered by hypocrisy, you don’t have to buy what they are saying to be sick of people complaining of how the world is being manipulated when what has happened is that the cracks in their rosy coloured view of the world are growing.

What bothers me most are moral hypocrisy and hubris.

Then look to those who push homosexual agendas because that is hypocrisy and hubris.

 

[fix]

By insisting “gay” is a term that has no different definition from “homosexual” or “same sex attraction,” people have unintentionally if not unwittingly given linguistic advantage to homosexual activists.
,

That is the point.

 

[fix]

There’s a solution for that.

The ordinary person on the streets, in the 21st century, more often than not is inaccurate in his or her use of language, understanding of classic definitions, and in the ability to apply logic and critical thinking in importing language, which is more often than not done sloppily and thoughtlessly.

Yes, but that does not fit the narrative.

 

[DexUK]

They obfuscate reality. The words are political tools.

When the world outside the Church - the very people we need to reach - has come to a consensus on language, then obfuscation or not, we don’t help ourselves by refusing to adopt the language of the people we wish to reach.

The Apostles were given the gift of Tongues. Why do we refuse to use the same gifts?

 

[Seeker1961]

When the world outside the Church - the very people we need to reach - has come to a consensus on language, then obfuscation or not, we don’t help ourselves by refusing to adopt the language of the people we wish to reach.

The Apostles were given the gift of Tongues. Why do we refuse to use the same gifts?

That’s the real question that nobody seems to want to address. What is the goal? Reading this thread, the goal is to keep “our” definition of a word even if it hinders us in reaching people for Christ.

Please someone refute that idea, because it would be really sad if I was right about it.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

That’s the real question that nobody seems to want to address. What is the goal? Reading this thread, the goal is to keep “our” definition of a word even if it hinders us in reaching people for Christ.

Please someone refute that idea, because it would be really sad if I was right about it.

What is even better is that the same people are clinging to a definition of wedding that didn’t exist originally and I can use wedded to refer to a relationship between two men. how about them apples?

 

[speakttruth]

I believe that what Jesus wants for ALL of us is to bring more people to Him. I use the terms that the world uses because the world is full of people that Jesus wants us to bring to Him. When I talk to another gay person about my life, and I tell them that I’m gay and Catholic-I get to start a dialog. I get to explain how despite what they hear, God doesn’t hate them, and the Church doesn’t hate them. I get to tell them that my life is happier now than it ever was before-and I didn’t have to “turn straight” or define myself like I had a disease to get to that point. By using those words, I can reach young people, gay and straight, who have turned away from the Church because of what they think the Church is-based on the language they have heard. By using the terms of the world, I get to keep a door open that might otherwise have been closed. Who knows? Maybe a seed I plant may someday lead someone to change their life. Even if I make one person view the Church differently, I call that a win.

The world does not use the word “gay” in the way you use it. To those outside the church, “gay” means attracted to the same sex. It is only in religious circles that “gay” means a feather boa, multiple partners and all the other stereotypes. (BTW-I have actually been to the NYC gay pride parade and only the drag queens get on TV, the “boring” gay people who have regular lives aren’t interesting enough)

I ask this again and again here…what is the real goal? Is it to open the doors and bring people in? Or is it to keep those doors shut tight, and make anyone who dares to knock pass a test before entering?

I am happy for your living a holy life but your wrong my son had to tell me first he thought he was bisexual, then gay and then he was telling me about PFLAG which is another organization that promotes the gay agenda. I don’t know what world your living in but Gay doesn’t not mean SSA, it means your a homosexual having sex. People don’t differentiate between that meaning when you say gay. In fact like your saying your upset to say you have a SSA. Why do you need to say anything? Your not a difference race. Gay is nothing to be proud of. Maybe people should call themselves adulators and fornicators too obviously nothing wrong with that in the world today. You are still identifying your self by your sexual preference which goes completely against the moral order. Why is that so important to preach to the mountain tops. How many children go on Face book and spread it all over like they are someone proud at coming out? I am part of the Encourage and this is what is happening to many of the parents.

The assumption and if you look at anything in politics or hollow wood. that is the term they use to identify with. So although you want to tell everyone how successful you are it seems you still want to be accepted in both worlds Saying you have a SSA is not saying you have a disease. So this is the excuse then why you want to be called gay because gay is a nice word. SSA means what it says, but GAY means you accept that lifestyle even though you aren’t living it as you say, I believe you want acceptance from the GAY world. Why say anything? And as Catholics we don’t want to encourage the lifestyle and you are by the very word your using. Some will think the church is changing it’s stance because of that one word. The pope doesn’t use it and you should n’'t either.

If you want the goal to bring people together you still tell them the truth, otherwise you could be enabling them to think it OK to be GAY.
Why don’t you check the Courage website the only accepted ministries by the Pontificate to help people who have a SSA. Your really doing a disservice to yourself if you are truly living a holy life. I m sorry but it’s a loaded word that was invented by the Homosexual Agenda to promote a homosexual lifestyle and you can tell people all day long but they will think your living it. Where do you see people say that they have a Same sex attraction when they aren’t living it? Unless your agreeable to it as someone who isn’t gay they use that term to refer to homosexuals. Look in California, I live in Mass and believe me it is promoted and it makes me sick because the schools push it are called GAY STRAIGHT ALLIANCE.
I don’t like to be called straight either. I am a human as I said , it just categorizes us. Since your not a different race by just your sexuality, why say anything. Try telling the world your a chaste gay see what the activists do.
God help us!

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Dex

**Well… since we don’t have the ability or facilities to re-educate the world, we need to adapt our language to theirs, rather than expect them to adapt to us.

It’s the charitable thing to do, surely?**

Then do you think St. Paul was wrong to use this kind of language?

I Corinthians 6:9-10 “Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.”

If you think St. Paul was wrong, does that make you more full of wisdom than St. Paul?

 

[DexUK]

I am happy for your living a holy life but your wrong my son had to tell me first he thought he was bisexual, then gay and then he was telling me about PFLAG which is another organization that promotes the gay agenda. I don’t know what world your living in but Gay doesn’t not mean SSA, it means your a homosexual having sex. People don’t differentiate between that meaning when you say gay. In fact like your saying your upset to say you have a SSA. Why do you need to say anything? Your not a difference race. Gay is nothing to be proud of. Maybe people should call themselves adulators and fornicators too obviously nothing wrong with that in the world today. You are still identifying your self by your sexual preference which goes completely against the moral order. Why is that so important to preach to the mountain tops. How many children go on Face book and spread it all over like they are someone proud at coming out? I am part of the Encourage and this is what is happening to many of the parents.

The assumption and if you look at anything in politics or hollow wood. that is the term they use to identify with. So although you want to tell everyone how successful you are it seems you still want to be accepted in both worlds Saying you have a SSA is not saying you have a disease. So this is the excuse then why you want to be called gay because gay is a nice word. SSA means what it says, but GAY means you accept that lifestyle even though you aren’t living it as you say, I believe you want acceptance from the GAY world. Why say anything? And as Catholics we don’t want to encourage the lifestyle and you are by the very word your using. Some will think the church is changing it’s stance because of that one word. The pope doesn’t use it and you should n’'t either.

If you want the goal to bring people together you still tell them the truth, otherwise you could be enabling them to think it OK to be GAY.
Why don’t you check the Courage website the only accepted ministries by the Pontificate to help people who have a SSA. Your really doing a disservice to yourself if you are truly living a holy life. I m sorry but it’s a loaded word that was invented by the Homosexual Agenda to promote a homosexual lifestyle and you can tell people all day long but they will think your living it. Where do you see people say that they have a Same sex attraction when they aren’t living it? Unless your agreeable to it as someone who isn’t gay they use that term to refer to homosexuals. Look in California, I live in Mass and believe me it is promoted and it makes me sick because the schools push it are called GAY STRAIGHT ALLIANCE.
I don’t like to be called straight either. I am a human as I said , it just categorizes us. Since your not a different race by just your sexuality, why say anything. Try telling the world your a chaste gay see what the activists do.
God help us!

If a person calls himself ‘gay’ and states that he is chaste, then it does not behove you to tell him that he means something different from that which he said. That is called “giving him the lie” - it is, fairly explicitly, telling someone that you believe them to be a liar.

And whether or not you believe the word “gay” is “loaded” and “invented” by an “Agenda” (can ‘agendas’ do things like that? That seems a peculiar use of the word) - the plain and brutal fact is that the rest of the world does not accept the premise of your statement.

I honestly don’t care if there are people within the ranks of the Catholic Church who are upset by the use of the word changing. Because in objecting to that change they simply continue to look inwards and reject any notion of speaking love and truth to the world.

The world doesn’t understand us.

How many different ways do I have to say that we need to speak the world’s language?!

 

[Monkey1976]

That’s the real question that nobody seems to want to address. What is the goal? Reading this thread, the goal is to keep “our” definition of a word even if it hinders us in reaching people for Christ.

Please someone refute that idea, because it would be really sad if I was right about it.

Our goal is that of the Church - the salvation of souls. When Our Lord spoke to those who were living in sin - prostitutes, tax collectors, etc. - He didn’t say, “Your life is just fine. No need to change what you’re doing.”, He said, “Your sins are forgiven. Go, and sin no more”.

You identify as Catholic. Have you ever heard of the Spiritual Works of Mercy? We’re not out to condemn people, or drive them away from Our Lord and His Church. What we’re trying to do through these posts are two of the Spiritual Works of Mercy:

• Instruct the ignorant
• Admonish the sinner

Truth without love is wrong, but equally wrong is love without truth. Without love, truth is oppressive and legalistic. Without truth, love is sentimentality that can never actually help a person.
The consistent teaching of the Church regarding homosexual activity is clear: It is a sin. This is obvious in Scripture, the writings of the Early Fathers, and the Catechism. To claim otherwise is twisting the Gospel to fit one’s preconceived notions. God isn’t calling us to make the Gospel conform to our life, He wants us to conform our lives to the Gospel. That isn’t an easy thing to do, and is impossible to do on our own. I know. Ask Jesus for the strength to live according to His Word, and He will give it. He never said that our life in this world would be easy. In fact, quite the opposite. He asks us to take up our cross and follow Him, not claim that our cross doesn’t exist. We are to embrace it and see it for what it is in the light of His Teaching, as proclaimed by His Church. Once we see it clearly, we take it up and join the suffering from carrying it to His, because He will give us the strength to keep going.

All we have to do is follow the same directions he gave to every sinner: “Go, and sin no more”.

 

[DexUK]

Dex

**Well… since we don’t have the ability or facilities to re-educate the world, we need to adapt our language to theirs, rather than expect them to adapt to us.

It’s the charitable thing to do, surely?**

Then do you think St. Paul was wrong to use this kind of language?

I Corinthians 6:9-10 “Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.”

If you think St. Paul was wrong, does that make you more full of wisdom than St. Paul?

No. I don’t say St Paul was wrong.

I say WE are wrong when we don’t talk to people in ways that they can understand.

In fact, St Paul is a perfect example of my argument - all his letters to the various Christian communities he helped found are excellent evidence of him understanding the cultures local to these communities at the time! I recommend some reading and approved commentary on his writings!

 

[Seeker1961]

I am happy for your living a holy life but your wrong my son had to tell me first he thought he was bisexual, then gay and then he was telling me about PFLAG which is another organization that promotes the gay agenda. I don’t know what world your living in but Gay doesn’t not mean SSA, it means your a homosexual having sex. People don’t differentiate between that meaning when you say gay. In fact like your saying your upset to say you have a SSA. Why do you need to say anything? Your not a difference race. Gay is nothing to be proud of. Maybe people should call themselves adulators and fornicators too obviously nothing wrong with that in the world today. You are still identifying your self by your sexual preference which goes completely against the moral order. Why is that so important to preach to the mountain tops. How many children go on Face book and spread it all over like they are someone proud at coming out? I am part of the Encourage and this is what is happening to many of the parents.

The assumption and if you look at anything in politics or hollow wood. that is the term they use to identify with. So although you want to tell everyone how successful you are it seems you still want to be accepted in both worlds Saying you have a SSA is not saying you have a disease. So this is the excuse then why you want to be called gay because gay is a nice word. SSA means what it says, but GAY means you accept that lifestyle even though you aren’t living it as you say, I believe you want acceptance from the GAY world. Why say anything? And as Catholics we don’t want to encourage the lifestyle and you are by the very word your using. Some will think the church is changing it’s stance because of that one word. The pope doesn’t use it and you should n’'t either.

If you want the goal to bring people together you still tell them the truth, otherwise you could be enabling them to think it OK to be GAY.
Why don’t you check the Courage website the only accepted ministries by the Pontificate to help people who have a SSA. Your really doing a disservice to yourself if you are truly living a holy life. I m sorry but it’s a loaded word that was invented by the Homosexual Agenda to promote a homosexual lifestyle and you can tell people all day long but they will think your living it. Where do you see people say that they have a Same sex attraction when they aren’t living it? Unless your agreeable to it as someone who isn’t gay they use that term to refer to homosexuals. Look in California, I live in Mass and believe me it is promoted and it makes me sick because the schools push it are called GAY STRAIGHT ALLIANCE.
I don’t like to be called straight either. I am a human as I said , it just categorizes us. Since your not a different race by just your sexuality, why say anything. Try telling the world your a chaste gay see what the activists do.
God help us!

I have not only “checked the Courage website”, when I first made my choice to go back to the Church, I joined. It was NOT the experience that people here believe that it is. I went to the group meetings and listened to people talk about how miserable they were because they were alone, and if they weren’t wallowing in their victimhood, they were talking about the temptation they just dodged. I’m sorry, but breathlessly describing the “hot barista boy” who fixed your coffee and how everything about him was so amazing-yet you didn’t ask him for his number-really doesn’t help me. I don’t think it helps anyone. It was the same thing on the forums. “oh poor me, I’m so lonely and miserable” or “I saw the hottest guy at work today!!”

I went to Courage looking for coping skills, looking to find out how to be happy AND live a life according to Church teaching. I didn’t find that. Now, before you say I just went to the wrong group, my ex went to one 1000 miles away and had the same experience.

And I don’t tell “everyone” I’m gay. I only say anything when someone asks about my life. It’s pretty rare that I talk about it at all. I discuss it here because frankly, I think this place needs to hear from actual gay people to dispel some of the myths that surround us. And frankly, you don’t have to tell anyone you’re straight-it’s assumed. That’s one of the benefits of being part of the majority.

I don’t need acceptance from any “world”, I have acceptance from God. That’s all I need. But I do WANT an open door to my gay friends and co-workers who might someday ask me about my life and why I’m happier without a partner and why I belong to a Church that they think hates them.

 

[DexUK]

Our goal is that of the Church - the salvation of souls. When Our Lord spoke to those who were living in sin - prostitutes, tax collectors, etc. - He didn’t say, “Your life is just fine. No need to change what you’re doing.”, He said, “Your sins are forgiven. Go, and sin no more”.

You identify as Catholic. Have you ever heard of the Spiritual Works of Mercy? We’re not out to condemn people, or drive them away from Our Lord and His Church. What we’re trying to do through these posts are two of the Spiritual Works of Mercy:

• Instruct the ignorant
• Admonish the sinner

Truth without love is wrong, but equally wrong is love without truth. Without love, truth is oppressive and legalistic. Without truth, love is sentimentality that can never actually help a person.
The consistent teaching of the Church regarding homosexual activity is clear: It is a sin. This is obvious in Scripture, the writings of the Early Fathers, and the Catechism. To claim otherwise is twisting the Gospel to fit one’s preconceived notions. God isn’t calling us to make the Gospel conform to our life, He wants us to conform our lives to the Gospel. That isn’t an easy thing to do, and is impossible to do on our own. I know. Ask Jesus for the strength to live according to His Word, and He will give it. He never said that our life in this world would be easy. In fact, quite the opposite. He asks us to take up our cross and follow Him, not claim that our cross doesn’t exist. We are to embrace it and see it for what it is in the light of His Teaching, as proclaimed by His Church. Once we see it clearly, we take it up and join the suffering from carrying it to His, because He will give us the strength to keep going.

All we have to do is follow the same directions he gave to every sinner: “Go, and sin no more”.

I wouldn’t disagree with a word of that.

The only thing is that when we hear people talking about “being gay” as being sinful, then I get annoyed, because of the message the rest of the world hears. Those who say such things do so because they believe “being gay” means “being a homosexual fornicator”. The rest of the world hears us saying that “being homosexually inclined” is sinful because they don’t ascribe anything more than just the inclination to the word “gay”. And therefore, the rest of the world hears us tell them that any same-sex-attracted person is instantly sinful, no matter what they do or don’t do… (Which would be wrong, but that’s how it’s understood)

Is that clear now?

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Dex

**No. I don’t say St Paul was wrong.

I say WE are wrong when we don’t talk to people in ways that they can understand. **

I think St. Paul was talking to people in ways they can understand. When you say WE are wrong to talk in the way he talked, I think you are saying St. Paul was also wrong. People don’t change … not even in two thousand years. What changes is what people would like to hear rather than what they should hear. We are in an age that despises the truth, and Orwellian age that wants to turn the language upside down to conform to its poverty of truth.