Going back to male servers?

[paperwight66]

Whether the girls, or their parents, would feel resentful of a trip only for boys would depend on how it was presented.

If in terms of ‘We are taking the altar boys to see where they would go eventually if they decided they would like to be a priest’ - no problem.

On the other hand, if the trip were descibed as ‘Hey, boys, we are going to look round the seminary, and afterwards we will have a slap-up tea and a swim in their pool (or similar treat) and a trip to MacDonald’s on the way home’, then problem.

Having said that, i have never heard of any trip like that organised for the altar servers in our parish anyway, because, as the previous poster says, they tend to be young. As a priest said to me, ‘We are not in the business of snaring little boys - it has to be a mature decision made by mature young men’.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

If these feminists were anti Catholic, why would any attempt have been made to appease them? Sinister? Lets not look for conspiracies in everything.
It would appear that some would want the celebration of mass to be an ‘old boys’ club’ and women to be silent observers. This is not directed at you specifically and is a general comment.

I don’t think THAT is true, either. Female altar servers? Traditionally altar boys were one place where the ranks of the priesthood grew.

You could definitely see this as an attempt to push female priesthood, which will never be valid.

 

[Corki]

Whether the girls, or their parents, would feel resentful of a trip only for boys would depend on how it was presented.

If in terms of ‘We are taking the altar boys to see where they would go eventually if they decided they would like to be a priest’ - no problem.

**On the other hand, if the trip were descibed as ‘Hey, boys, we are going to look round the seminary, and afterwards we will have a slap-up tea and a swim in their pool (or similar treat) and a trip to MacDonald’s on the way home’, then problem.**Having said that, i have never heard of any trip like that organised for the altar servers in our parish anyway, because, as the previous poster says, they tend to be young. As a priest said to me, ‘We are not in the business of snaring little boys - it has to be a mature decision made by mature young men’.

Why would such an outing be a problem - what is the objection? The swim, the meal at McDonald’s? (I don’t know what a slap-up tea is )

The “problem” trip is exactly what is called for in RS.

It is altogether laudable to maintain the noble custom by which boys or youths, customarily termed servers, provide service of the altar after the manner of acolytes, and receive catechesis regarding their function in accordance with their power of comprehension.[119] Nor should it be forgotten that a great number of sacred ministers over the course of the centuries have come from among boys such as these.[120] Associations for them, including also the participation and assistance of their parents, should be established or promoted, and in such a way greater pastoral care will be provided for the ministers.

And therein lies the problem. How do you form an association for just the boys on an altar serving team without someone’s feminist hackles rising? No one wants to “snare” boys. But the world is full of messages telling them why they should not be priests. The Church has an obligation to make sure that some of that “noise” is countered by good.

 

[Kit15]

And therein lies the problem. How do you form an association for just the boys on an altar serving team without someone’s feminist hackles rising?

Maybe the girls could take a field trip to a convent on the same day with skating and Burger King?

As for feminist hackles raising, this is a catachesis problem. Any woman that would have their hackles raised over a boys field trip to the seminary probably has a bone to pick with the idea of a male priesthood in general. The moms and the girls that understand and accept male priesthood should have no objection with such a field trip.

I think paperwight66’s point was that it becomes a problem if the boys are going to event after event after event without the girls and the girls are not taking similar, but appropriate, trips of their own. Obviously the girls don’t need to go on the seminary trip. But if the boys are also going on a baseball trip, or a bowling trip for some male camaraderie…then yes perhaps the girls should be off doing some camaraderie thing of their own.

 

[Tsuwano]

I don’t think THAT is true, either. Female altar servers? Traditionally altar boys were one place where the ranks of the priesthood grew.

You could definitely see this as an attempt to push female priesthood, which will never be valid.

Seeing female altar servers as an attempt to push a female priesthood makes as much sense as seeing a celibate priesthood as an attempt to do away with the Sacrament of Matrimony. I guess one could see it in such a light, but then, they would be seeing it completely wrong.

 

[Corki]

Maybe the girls could take a field trip to a convent on the same day with skating and Burger King?

As for feminist hackles raising, this is a catachesis problem. Any woman that would have their hackles raised over a boys field trip to the seminary probably has a bone to pick with the idea of a male priesthood in general. The moms and the girls that understand and accept male priesthood should have no objection with such a field trip.

I think paperwight66’s point was that it becomes a problem if the boys are going to event after event after event without the girls and the girls are not taking similar, but appropriate, trips of their own. Obviously the girls don’t need to go on the seminary trip. But if the boys are also going on a baseball trip, or a bowling trip for some male camaraderie…then yes perhaps the girls should be off doing some camaraderie thing of their own.

Why do the girls need a trip too? It’s not about the girls. It’s not just about male comaraderie either. And yes, if you really want to increase awareness of pristly vocations, there should be multiple events (“event after event”) activities for the boys, and the boys alone. If someone wants to do something for the girls, then the Catholic Daughters or the youth ministry can arrange something for them but it shouldn’t be any part of the altar serving program.

Take a look at post #354 in this other thread on the same topic. These are great activities for the boys in that parish that springboard from the altar serving group.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=8355399#post8355399

 

[severus68]

I don’t think THAT is true, either. Female altar servers? Traditionally altar boys were one place where the ranks of the priesthood grew.

You could definitely see this as an attempt to push female priesthood, which will never be valid.

Having female altar servers an attempt to push female priesthood? That would be absolute nonsense. Or are you saying my comments are so? If you are saying that, than perhaps you should be careful about making a comment like that. If I was pushing for the ordination of women, I would not do it on CAF.

 

[Corki]

Having female altar servers an attempt to push female priesthood? That would be absolute nonsense.

While it may be an exageration, it’s not absolute nonsense.

The vast majority of girls who serve at the altar aren’t going to have any aspiration to be a women-priest. Nor are most of the boys who serve going to ever have a vocation. But when you read the interviews with those women who have attempted to be ordained, the topic of being or wanting to be an altar server is not uncommonly mentioned. I am not sure what can be done about that but it isn’t so incredibly far-fetched to be considered non-sense.

The womenpriests website has many pages dedicated to pushing for more female altar servers. It seems that they see a link, whether we do or not.

 

[Kit15]

Why do the girls need a trip too? It’s not about the girls. It’s not just about male comaraderie either. And yes, if you really want to increase awareness of pristly vocations, there should be multiple events (“event after event”) activities for the boys, and the boys alone. If someone wants to do something for the girls, then the Catholic Daughters or the youth ministry can arrange something for them but it shouldn’t be any part of the altar serving program.

You know…girls have possible religious vocations of their own that we could be encouraging them to pursue.

 

[TimothyH]

I don’t think anyone is doing that. What the diocese in the OP is saying is that, since altar serving has a long tradition of encouraging the priesthood, why block that way? If we need more priests we should pursue lots of different ways to encourage vocations, this is just one of them.

Didn’t read my whole post, did you?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8380440&postcount=221

Nothing is blocking vocations to the priesthood more than Catholics using contraception.

Stop blaming girls for what we have done to our boys.

If Catholics stopped using contraception, vocations to the priesthood would skyrocket.

-Tim-

 

[Corki]

Didn’t read my whole post, did you?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8380440&postcount=221

Nothing is blocking vocations to the priesthood more than Catholics using contraception.

Stop blaming girls for what we have done to our boys.

If Catholics stopped using contraception, vocations to the priesthood would skyrocket.

-Tim-

Yes, I did read your whole post. But I don’t think we can afford to neglect any avenue to increasing vocations. It is not as easy as telling everyone to stop contracepting. However, it is fairly easy to start encouraging the boys that are at Mass to at least think about the priesthood. You don’t have to pick just one thing.

And I am not blaming the girls.

 

[Corki]

You know…girls have possible religious vocations of their own that we could be encouraging them to pursue.

Absolutely. And there are many excellent programs that do just that. Co-ed activities with boys are highly unlikely to encourage religious vocations for women.

 

[severus68]

While it may be an exageration, it’s not absolute nonsense.

The vast majority of girls who serve at the altar aren’t going to have any aspiration to be a women-priest. Nor are most of the boys who serve going to ever have a vocation. But when you read the interviews with those women who have attempted to be ordained, the topic of being or wanting to be an altar server is not uncommonly mentioned. I am not sure what can be done about that but it isn’t so incredibly far-fetched to be considered non-sense.

One has nothing to do with the other. A person who is adamant about women priests will break away from the Church eventually. An altar server ‘serves’ the priest and that position would never satisfy such a person.

 

[Catholicguy100]

Would they have to put shoes on, stop cooking supper, AND leave the kitchen to be an altar server??

If so then I am definitely against it!

 

[felsguy]

Absolutely. And there are many excellent programs that do just that. ** Co-ed activities with boys are highly unlikely to encourage religious vocations for women**.

Conversely, are you suggesting that they would be highly likely to discourage religious vocations for women? That would be insulting to the thousands of young women who, having had healthy interactions with young men, chose to enter and remain in religious life.

Likewise it would be insulting to say the same about priests and brothers. I would even go so far as to say that not having such healthy coed activities with the opposite sex is what has led to many of the problems in the recent past.

 

[Corki]

One has nothing to do with the other. A person who is adamant about women priests will break away from the Church eventually. An altar server ‘serves’ the priest and that position would never satisfy such a person.

I agree that they are not necesarily related. Most of the women who attempt ordination at least claim to have been brought up as practicing Catholics.

Most people, it seems, are neutral about altar servers. I was just pointing out that one of the groups that is championing all-male altar serving is also working hard to encourage more men to the priesthood while one of the groups championing girl altar servers is also working hard to encourage women in the priesthood.

 

[Corki]

Absolutely. And there are many excellent programs that do just that. Co-ed activities with boys are highly unlikely to encourage religious vocations for women.

Conversely, are you suggesting that they would be highly likely to discourage religious vocations for women?

No, what you are proposing is the logical fallacy called Affirming the Consequent. I’m not falling for that one.

 

[kozlosap]

Didn’t read my whole post, did you?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8380440&postcount=221

Nothing is blocking vocations to the priesthood more than Catholics using contraception.

Stop blaming girls for what we have done to our boys.

If Catholics stopped using contraception, vocations to the priesthood would skyrocket.

-Tim-

Contraception AND a much more highly educated society (ie, you don’t have to become a priest to go to college anymore). Blaming contraception gets us nowhere in this argument because the fact is that, at least in the modern world, we are not going to go back to 1957 and stay there. Instead of throwing out old, and quite frankly, trite, excuses, let’s find a way to encourage young men to serve in this time period. Girl alter servers are not the reason that young men are not entering seminaries.

 

[Kit15]

Absolutely. And there are many excellent programs that do just that. Co-ed activities with boys are highly unlikely to encourage religious vocations for women.

You asked why girls need a trip too. I’m saying it’s the same reason the boys apparently need a trip: to help encourage vocations.

 

[Corki]

You asked why girls need a trip too. I’m saying it’s the same reason the boys apparently need a trip: to help encourage vocations.

ok. And as I said, it would be great if someone organized a trip or activity for them. I’m sorry but it sounded like your were saying that since the boys got a trip the girls deserved one too - an equivalency issue. I would have a problem with that.