Going back to male servers?

[Bluegoat]

Contraception is the root cause of the culture of recreational sex. Widespread availablity and use of contraception is what allows society to see recreational sex as a right like freedom of speech, and as something inherent to our happiness.

And it is the culture of recrational sex on demand which has created a whole host of ills, including porn addiction, aids, fashionable homosexuality, 40% of all children in the US and 70% of black children in the US born into houses without fathers, teen pregnancy, sex on TV, etc. And the culture of recreational sex in the western world, enabled through contraception, is what has caused the demand for abortion to skyrocket.

The Anglican Church began teaching that contraception was not sinful in 1930 and all other Protestant denominations followed suit. The generation which learned that contraception was not a sin grew up and their demand for contraception made it widely available in the 1950’s. The generation that grew up with freely available contraceptives began the “Sexual revoltion” in the 60’s and they in turn demanded abortions and made it legal in the 1970’s. The drop in priestly vocations of which the decline in cultural morals is but a symptom, is inversely proportional to the increase in use of contraception since the 1930’s.

Boys now grow up with freely available porn on the internet. As soon as they are old enough to click a mouse, they see naked women and women in Bikini’s all over the place. They see it on TV too, characters on Nicelodeon and Disney, boys with absolutely no hobbies other than crushing on girls and girls who’s primary concern in life is kissing boys. Mrs Beaver and Ralph Cramden’s wife used to be the ideal. They were hot! Now it has to be Pamela Anderson and bikini babes on Survivor and high school girst walk around the halls with 70% of their bodies exposed. We can’t even get our girls to wear proper clothing at Mass!!!

And boys grow up with this. 25% of American males are addicted to porn. I was one. By the time a boy matures to the point where he may begin feeling a call to discern a vocation to the priesthood, he has been saturated with sex. Addicted probably. Their father’s are likely the same way. And thier uncles and cousins. They have no role models. And priests are guys they see in funny clothes only on Sunday. And priests are all pedophiles anyway, or at least that is what they are told.

The culture of recreational sex has them. The devil owns our young boys. And it is all caused by, facilitated by, contraception. Their father’s have vasectomies. Their mother’s get pills at the gynecologist. Condoms, spermicidal foam and KY jelly is on display at Walmart. They have no extended families, and no one in their lives who are priests, let alone good role models. And even if they do, it likely wont do any good because the devil, through the culture of recreational sex, has a strong hold on them.

How can they be priests!!!??? How can they even begin to feel the call to the priesthood???
They can’t. Girl altar servers my foot! Boys today are saturated with sex. And the only way to end sexual saturation is to stop using contraceptives. Catholics who ought to know better bear not only the brunt of the blame but the moral responsiblity to lead the world in repentance as well.

You all can say that I’m dreaming. You all can say that I’m in fantasy world and that it will never happen. Call me reactionary or stupid or an idiot. I don’t care. I have too much faith in God to care about what you all think of me. God corrected Isreal many times. God killed the nations who sacrificed their children to the god Molech. God demanded the lives of 1.2 million Jews in 70 AD - Jews who did not accept his Son’s teaching. God demanded 622,000 human lives in the US Civil War so that we could end slavery. God can end it. God can do it. One day he is going to become fed up with all the contraception and abortion, and its not gonna be fun for most of us.

I just hope we become like the city of Ninevah before then.

-Tim-

While I wouldn’t put it this strongly, I think there is some truth to this. But I think the values of individualism and corporatism are also part of the issue. One reason our culture encourages small families is so both parents can work, increasing the GDP and so on. Sex and money are both powerful forces.

 

[felsguy]

Keep in mind that the previous pastor did not say daily Mass, did not hear Confessions (not even by appointment), had moved the tabernacle to a corner, did not use bells or incense ever and was “personally in favor” of women priests. I happen to live in a neighborhood that is equal distance from my parish and another parish. All of those reasons were given to me by neighbors who left my parish to attend the other one. The big one was Confession. The former priest, who was very likeable personally, had convinced everyone that Confession was old-fashioned. New pastor not only re-instituted regular Confession times but he would work into his homilies why it was important to go to Confession. That really upset those who loved the former pastor.

**My point **is that, just because there are people that complain about something, even if its a large percentage, that doesn’t make it wrong.

I certainly agree with your point.

And I agree that your former pastor had some very unusual views and practices.:sad_yes:

 

[severus68]

Contraception is the root cause of the culture of recreational sex. Widespread availablity and use of contraception is what allows society to see recreational sex as a right like freedom of speech, and as something inherent to our happiness.

And it is the culture of recrational sex on demand which has created a whole host of ills, including porn addiction, aids, fashionable homosexuality, 40% of all children in the US and 70% of black children in the US born into houses without fathers, teen pregnancy, sex on TV, etc. And the culture of recreational sex in the western world, enabled through contraception, is what has caused the demand for abortion to skyrocket.

The Anglican Church began teaching that contraception was not sinful in 1930 and all other Protestant denominations followed suit. The generation which learned that contraception was not a sin grew up and their demand for contraception made it widely available in the 1950’s. The generation that grew up with freely available contraceptives began the “Sexual revoltion” in the 60’s and they in turn demanded abortions and made it legal in the 1970’s. The drop in priestly vocations of which the decline in cultural morals is but a symptom, is inversely proportional to the increase in use of contraception since the 1930’s.

Boys now grow up with freely available porn on the internet. As soon as they are old enough to click a mouse, they see naked women and women in Bikini’s all over the place. They see it on TV too, characters on Nicelodeon and Disney, boys with absolutely no hobbies other than crushing on girls and girls who’s primary concern in life is kissing boys. Mrs Beaver and Ralph Cramden’s wife used to be the ideal. They were hot! Now it has to be Pamela Anderson and bikini babes on Survivor and high school girst walk around the halls with 70% of their bodies exposed. We can’t even get our girls to wear proper clothing at Mass!!!

And boys grow up with this. 25% of American males are addicted to porn. I was one. By the time a boy matures to the point where he may begin feeling a call to discern a vocation to the priesthood, he has been saturated with sex. Addicted probably. Their father’s are likely the same way. And thier uncles and cousins. They have no role models. And priests are guys they see in funny clothes only on Sunday. And priests are all pedophiles anyway, or at least that is what they are told.

The culture of recreational sex has them. The devil owns our young boys. And it is all caused by, facilitated by, contraception. Their father’s have vasectomies. Their mother’s get pills at the gynecologist. Condoms, spermicidal foam and KY jelly is on display at Walmart. They have no extended families, and no one in their lives who are priests, let alone good role models. And even if they do, it likely wont do any good because the devil, through the culture of recreational sex, has a strong hold on them.

How can they be priests!!!??? How can they even begin to feel the call to the priesthood???
They can’t. Girl altar servers my foot! Boys today are saturated with sex. And the only way to end sexual saturation is to stop using contraceptives. Catholics who ought to know better bear not only the brunt of the blame but the moral responsiblity to lead the world in repentance as well.

You all can say that I’m dreaming. You all can say that I’m in fantasy world and that it will never happen. Call me reactionary or stupid or an idiot. I don’t care. I have too much faith in God to care about what you all think of me. God corrected Isreal many times. God killed the nations who sacrificed their children to the god Molech. God demanded the lives of 1.2 million Jews in 70 AD - Jews who did not accept his Son’s teaching. God demanded 622,000 human lives in the US Civil War so that we could end slavery. God can end it. God can do it. One day he is going to become fed up with all the contraception and abortion, and its not gonna be fun for most of us.

I just hope we become like the city of Ninevah before then.

-Tim-

Firstly, I would appreciate that you keep negative race based stats out of this discussion.

There is a great and signigicant difference between availability and use. Before the pill and modern contraceptive devices were invented, people did resort to other methods to avoid pregnancy. The pill, condoms and such are things. People choose to use them.

The fact that the pill etc are freely available have given those who want to, to have unmarried sex without “consequences”… So these people only refrained refrained from unmarried sex only because of the fear of pregnancy. Refraining from unmarried sex out of fear does not make people in the past, good, holy and pure. Sin has been here from the time of the Fall.

I would think that the drop in religious vocations is due to various factors including the fact that in the past, it was a matter of fact and expected that one son would become a priest, the scandal and horror of sexual abuse is widely known etc.

 

[stayinthelight]

Let’s face it, the current fad of girl altar servers only came in vogue in the ‘90s as as a cave-in to liberals’ demands. The cry of “it’s not fair” and “you’re sexist” is straight-out liberal “equality” type thinking.

Instead of being firstly concerned about the good of the Church, which in this case entails ensuring that we foster vocations to the male priesthood by following Christ’s example, liberals whine about hurt feelings and expect the Church to indulge subjective wants rather than tending to the common good of the Church.

Girl altar servers is a completely liberal and misguided idea which is a vocation killer to the priesthood. Why? Where’s the proof, liberals demand? Very simple answer - common sense will tell you that only a certain number of altar servers will choose a vocation to the priesthood. Instead of four boys serving at the altar, if two are now girls, you’ve automatically cut the odds of vocations way down. If three are girls, now it’s even lower.

I agree 100%.

In hindsight, the decision to allow girl altar servers appears worse now than it did back then, but even as a kid, that decision felt wrong.

It was not because I didn’t like girls or wanted to “oppress” them or thought they were inferior. Even though I was just a kid, I felt like the decision was influenced by political correctness – but I never would have put it into words that way. I don’t think I had ever even heard the term “political correctness”.

I truly believe liberalism is evil; empty, flowery rhetoric that ends up destroying anything it touches. And then they call it “progress”.

 

[ColNY]

If these feminists were anti Catholic, why would any attempt have been made to appease them? Sinister? Lets not look for conspiracies in everything.
It would appear that some would want the celebration of mass to be an ‘old boys’ club’ and women to be silent observers. This is not directed at you specifically and is a general comment.

EXACTLY:thumbsup: That’s what I feel they are attempting, too.

 

[ColNY]

Both of my daughters are altar servers, as am I. I am proud of them.

I have a picture of my older daughter (14) from the front page of our diocesean newspaper serving at a Mass with 1100 people present and eleven priests. She was one of only two servers that day and the priests were all coming up to both girls telling them what a wonderful job they did. Not a single boy volunteered.

Every time I see my youngest daughter (10) serve, with either boys or girls of any age, she is kneeling upright, hands in the correct position, paying attention in case the priest needs something, bowing her head at the name of Jesus, uniting herself to the priest by crossing herself when he crosses himself and sitting and standing when he sits and stand while the rest of the kids look around and pick their noses.

It’s nonsense that boys shy away from serving when girls a present. Boys are shying away because their mother’s are bringing them to Mass without their fathers, who are off in the woods during hunting season or too busy riding their new mountain bike to bother being spiritual fathers to their children. My daughter’s serve because their father serves and that speaks to the point made by SVP and Contra Mundum. Arimathean Ministries are a great way to serve the parish and set a wonderful example.

I’m super proud of my two altar servers. It is my hope one day that the three of us can serve at a Mass as a family. How cool would that be?

-Tim-

You hit the nail on the head Tim! I see way more moms with their kids in church than entire family units. My husband travels all week but he’s home on the weekends and Mass as a family takes priority over everything else. In fact, there was a period of time in which he was trying to start a side biz with a friend and they met on Sunday mornings so he went to an earlier Mass. That lasted exactly three weeks before I pitched a fit the size of Texas and he got his priorities straight (at least with Mass—took him a bit to give up on the foolish biz idea). Since then, never been an issue. It’s important for children to see their parents go to Mass together as often as possible. And by the way–my 14 year old daughter is an altar server and I’m thrilled to say that because she has no desire to stop until she makes her confirmation and can then serve as a Eucharistic Minister like her dad and I do. And my son will be joining the altar server program hopefully soon. I hope to say that Christmas Eve Mass, we may be able to have both children, along with myself, my husband and my parents all serving Mass together.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Firstly, I would appreciate that you keep negative race based stats out of this discussion.

What does that even mean?

 

[YoungTradCath]

You hit the nail on the head Tim! I see way more moms with their kids in church than entire family units. My husband travels all week but he’s home on the weekends and Mass as a family takes priority over everything else. In fact, there was a period of time in which he was trying to start a side biz with a friend and they met on Sunday mornings so he went to an earlier Mass. That lasted exactly three weeks before I pitched a fit the size of Texas and he got his priorities straight (at least with Mass—took him a bit to give up on the foolish biz idea). Since then, never been an issue. It’s important for children to see their parents go to Mass together as often as possible. And by the way–my 14 year old daughter is an altar server and I’m thrilled to say that because she has no desire to stop until she makes her confirmation and can then serve as a Eucharistic Minister like her dad and I do. And my son will be joining the altar server program hopefully soon. I hope to say that Christmas Eve Mass, we may be able to have both children, along with myself, my husband and my parents all serving Mass together.

There is no such thing as a “Eucharistic Minister.” That doesn’t exist.

What does that even mean?

I’m confused too.

 

[Corki]

There is no such thing as a “Eucharistic Minister.” That doesn’t exist.

Sure there is. Priests and Bishops are ministers of the Eucharist. What there is “no such thing” is a husband and wife pair of Eucharistic Ministers or a 14 year old one.

 

[TimothyH]

Firstly, I would appreciate that you keep negative race based stats out of this discussion.

What does that even mean?

Probably the citation of the statistic that 70% of all black children in the USA are born into homes without a father. I also cited the fact that 40% of all chidren (all races) in the USA are born into homes without a father.

It’s a fact, easily verified and widely accepted.

It is also a travesty caused by contraception and the culture of recreational sex. It is destroying a whole generation and the black race is bearing the brunt. That’s my point.

-Tim-

 

[YoungTradCath]

Sure there is. Priests and Bishops are ministers of the Eucharist. What there is “no such thing” is a husband and wife pair of Eucharistic Ministers or a 14 year old one.

I was toying with the language. I was deciding whether I should make known the distinction between an “Ordinary” Minister of the Eucharist and an “Extraordinary” Minister of the Eucharist. I just decided to leave that language out.

 

[Corki]

I was toying with the language. I was deciding whether I should make known the distinction between an “Ordinary” Minister of the Eucharist and an “Extraordinary” Minister of the Eucharist. I just decided to leave that language out.

Well, if you want to be precise, there is no such thing as an “Extraordinary Minister of the Eucharist”. There are Ministers of the Eucharist (priests and bishops), Ordinary Ministers of Holy Communion (priests, bishops and deacons) and then there are EMHCs which are lay persons who help to distribute Communion in extraordinary circumstances.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Well, if you want to be precise, there is no such thing as an “Extraordinary Minister of the Eucharist”. There are Ministers of the Eucharist (priests and bishops), Ordinary Ministers of Holy Communion (priests, bishops and deacons) and then there are EMHCs which are lay persons who help to distribute Communion in extraordinary circumstances.

Yeah, I messed that one up too. My mind isn’t working today.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Probably the citation of the statistic that 70% of all black children in the USA are born into homes without a father. I also cited the fact that 40% of all chidren (all races) in the USA are born into homes without a father.

It’s a fact, easily verified and widely accepted.

It is also a travesty caused by contraception and the culture of recreational sex. It is destroying a whole generation and the black race is bearing the brunt. That’s my point.

-Tim-

And you make a good one.

Why is it ‘racist’ to speak the truth, but not racist that the state has done such things to black families?

 

[YoungTradCath]

And you make a good one.

Why is it ‘racist’ to speak the truth, but not racist that the state has done such things to black families?

Because people are too lazy to think and are thus ignorant.

 

[Melchior_1]

Probably the citation of the statistic that 70% of all black children in the USA are born into homes without a father. I also cited the fact that 40% of all chidren (all races) in the USA are born into homes without a father.

It’s a fact, easily verified and widely accepted.

It is also a travesty caused by contraception and the culture of recreational sex. It is destroying a whole generation and the black race is bearing the brunt. That’s my point.

-Tim-

Tangent; ironically the solution people think of is, you guessed it, more contraceptives!

 

[Walking_Home]

Sailor Kenshin:

And you make a good one.

Why is it ‘racist’ to speak the truth, but not racist that the state has done such things to black families?

Because people are too lazy to think and are thus ignorant.

---

Or maybe it was just a misunderstanding — and there really was no need for you to call severus68 lazy and ignorant.

 

[severus68]

---

Or maybe it was just a misunderstanding — and there really was no need for you to call severus68 lazy and ignorant.

Those who have an inability to discuss properly resort to insults which just reflects poorly on them.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Or maybe it was just a misunderstanding — and there really was no need for you to call severus68 lazy and ignorant.

I was thinking more about this pervading mode of thinking by society as a whole, but alright, I’ll concede.

 

[severus68]

Probably the citation of the statistic that 70% of all black children in the USA are born into homes without a father. I also cited the fact that 40% of all chidren (all races) in the USA are born into homes without a father.

It’s a fact, easily verified and widely accepted.

It is also a travesty caused by contraception and the culture of recreational sex. It is destroying a whole generation and the black race is bearing the brunt. That’s my point.

-Tim-

Perhaps blacks may not appreciate being singled out and it being stated in a public forum that the majority of them indulge in recreational sex? Whatever the facts, whether or not it is widely accepted in the US, such matters should be left for those dealing with such problems to discuss.