Going Camping not to Mass

[palmas85]

This thread definately makes me want to become a Protestant. What a bunch of constricting, constraining nonesense. I know, though, that these extreme views are probably NOT representative of mainstream Catholic thought. It can’t be that camping with one’s family in the wilderness is a sin. It just can’t be.

No, it isn’t. Deliberately choosing to miss Mass on a Sunday however, is indeed a sin. Attending Mass on** ALL** Sundays and **ALL **Holy Days of Obligation is one of the precepts of the Church. In fact it is the first of the five. It is a requirement and is not optional. Sorry, but that rule has been around for a long long time.Since you seem to think this is unfair and not the view of mainstream Catholicism and maybe coming from some fringe element traditionalist or something. I will quote you from the Catechism. No not the Baltimore but the current version .

2041 The precepts of the Church are set in the context of a moral life bound to and nourished by liturgical life. The obligatory character of these positive laws decreed by the pastoral authorities is meant to guarantee to the faithful the indispensable minimum in the spirit of prayer and moral effort, in the growth in love of God and neighbor:

2042 The first precept **(“You shall attend Mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation.”) requires the faithful to participate in the Eucharistic celebration when the Christian community gathers together on the day commemorating the Resurrection of the Lord.[82] **

Note the word SHALL. That indicates that the faithful have to do it except in rare circumstances. I would have to consider a camping trip to be just a bit on the frivilous side as a reason for missing Mass.

Just my opinion and remember I have a reputation for being uncharitable and mean spirited as well as uncircumsized of heart and ears.

I truly hope and pray that you come to realize what a great gift attending the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is and how utterly insignificant many other things are in relation to it.

 

[daeve]

Camping with your family isn’t a sin. Neither is sleeping in, unless it causes you to miss Mass.

If you get a dispensation, swell. I don’t think I realized that was an option before this discussion. It doesn’t seem to be in the spirit of the law, so to speak, to miss Mass for a vacation of any sort.

These are my opinions and the way I choose to behave. Each of us has to do what he thinks is right. To me, Mass is not optional. Missing Mass requires a serious reason, and camping or any other kind of trip doesn’t fit into my definition of serious reason. If a priest is willing to give you a dispensation, that’s fine with me. I’m not going to second guess or contradict a priest. He knows a lot more about this than I do.

 

[japhy]

On Thanksgiving weekend my family is going to go to the desert for the weekend. If I join them I will not be able to go to Mass. Is it a sin to choose going Camping for the weekend where I can’t go to mass over staying home where I can go to mass on Sunday?

The desert is a pretty biblical place. Bring a Bible with you, and have spiritual communion.

 

[az_4_faith]

Not an accusation at all. It always amazes me that people will look for ways to escape the confines of the minimum obligations that the Church places upon us. I think it wise to remember that God has historically, all through scriptures had some pretty high expectations for us, his creations. Belief in God does not end with saying I believe. No it entails a good bit more than that

Attending Mass is one of those things. True, God does not say in scripture you will come to Mass every Sunday. He does however say to remember the sabbath and to keep it holy. That was interpreted by the Church to mean in part, getting to Mass on Sundays.

Attending Mass on Sundays is an obligation to God and to the Church whether we want to do it or have other plans or not. To choose another activity, such as camping, over attending the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass on a Sunday to me shows a disregard for the precepts of the faith and a cavalier attitude towards the faith itself that sadly way too many people have…

You are way out of line.

You don’t know me or my family or the reasons in which dispensation has been granted.

That is between my priest and my family.

I own a business. I have not taken a vacation in over ten years. I can’t take off Monday or Friday to extend a normal weekend. I can’t fly out of town or drive more than two hours away. Camping is our only outlet. My priest understands this. Twice a year, we are granted dispensation for the long holiday weekends. If you read my previous post, we organize a prayer service, using the readings for that Sunday. We don’t ignore God or his Commandments.

Think twice about making generalizations.

 

[az_4_faith]

No, it isn’t. Deliberately choosing to miss Mass on a Sunday however, is indeed a sin. Attending Mass on** ALL** Sundays and **ALL **Holy Days of Obligation is one of the precepts of the Church. In fact it is the first of the five. It is a requirement and is not optional. Sorry, but that rule has been around for a long long time.Since you seem to think this is unfair and not the view of mainstream Catholicism and maybe coming from some fringe element traditionalist or something. I will quote you from the Catechism. No not the Baltimore but the current version .

2041 The precepts of the Church are set in the context of a moral life bound to and nourished by liturgical life. The obligatory character of these positive laws decreed by the pastoral authorities is meant to guarantee to the faithful the indispensable minimum in the spirit of prayer and moral effort, in the growth in love of God and neighbor:

2042 The first precept **(“You shall attend Mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation.”) requires the faithful to participate in the Eucharistic celebration when the Christian community gathers together on the day commemorating the Resurrection of the Lord.[82] **

Note the word SHALL. That indicates that the faithful have to do it except in rare circumstances. I would have to consider a camping trip to be just a bit on the frivilous side as a reason for missing Mass.

Just my opinion and remember I have a reputation for being uncharitable and mean spirited as well as uncircumsized of heart and ears.

I truly hope and pray that you come to realize what a great gift attending the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is and how utterly insignificant many other things are in relation to it.

Don’t stop the Catechism there.

You forgot this one:

See the Catechism:

2181 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) **or dispensed by their own pastor.**119] Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.

 

[Em_in_FL]

I believe that receiving dispensation from a Priest to miss Mass is something to be used for extreme circumstances not for a camping trip which is really kind of trivial in the scheme of things.

You are way out of line.

You don’t know me or my family or the reasons in which dispensation has been granted.

That is between my priest and my family.

I own a business. I have not taken a vacation in over ten years. I can’t take off Monday or Friday to extend a normal weekend. I can’t fly out of town or drive more than two hours away. Camping is our only outlet. My priest understands this. Twice a year, we are granted dispensation for the long holiday weekends. If you read my previous post, we organize a prayer service, using the readings for that Sunday. We don’t ignore God or his Commandments.

Think twice about making generalizations.

Don’t stop the Catechism there.

You forgot this one:

See the Catechism:

2181 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) **or dispensed by their own pastor.**119] Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.

I don’t think palmas85 was making generalizations…
Clearly you fall under those extreme circumstances that he mentioned above…

I think his general response was towards the original poster…

 

[drifting_away]

I think it’s ridiculous to have to ask a busy priest for permission to go camping. It’s absurd that we can’t be trusted to make this decision on our own. With all the troubles in the world, we need to ask to be excused from Mass to go on a camping trip with our family? This is such a turn off, I can’t tell you.

 

[DallasCatholic]

I think it’s ridiculous to have to ask a busy priest for permission to go camping. It’s absurd that we can’t be trusted to make this decision on our own. With all the troubles in the world, we need to ask to be excused from Mass to go on a camping trip with our family? This is such a turn off, I can’t tell you.

No one is requiring you to ask permission to go camping (or the OP for that matter). The issue is missing Mass on Sunday. At that, no one is requiring that you ask a Priest for a dispensation to miss Mass on Sunday. You are obligated to have a fully formed conscience and then to follow that fully formed conscience. The fact of the matter is that missing Mass on Sunday is a grave matter. The degree of sin depends on many factors and your Priest can help you sort through those factors and determine the proper course of action…in other words your Priest can help you in the formation of your conscience. Your Priest can give you a dispensation, in effect a determination that your missing Mass on Sunday would not constitute a mortal sin…or he can deny that dispensation. You could of course just choose to go camping and take your chances…not a course I would recommend.

 

[RobNY]

I think it’s ridiculous to have to ask a busy priest for permission to go camping. It’s absurd that we can’t be trusted to make this decision on our own. With all the troubles in the world, we need to ask to be excused from Mass to go on a camping trip with our family? This is such a turn off, I can’t tell you.

Well, one can be judicious as to when one asks the priest. For instance, two or three or more weeks before your plan to go away, catch the priest after mass, as priests usually stand and greet after mass, and ask him for the dispensation. There-- no time lost.

But in any case, it is the priest’s duty to care for his flock, and even this, no matter how trivial it seems, is part of it. Over the course of many weeks-- and it seems that this is being planned far in advance-- it seems more than reasonable that the priest would have some time to tend to his flock.

However, I think it must best be approached in this way. As Christians we are expected to be obedient to God always. God Himself says, “he who hears you, hears me, and he who rejects you, rejects me”-- speaking to the Apostles. Being a Christian consists in trying to obey God’s will as best we know it, especially as the Church teaches us. It is not silly, or a turn off, but rather, beautiful, that people are so concerned with following God’s will completely that they would ask their priest for a dispensation, for God’s will is manifested to us through the Church. It would be a turn off if they had an unreasonable view-- of going through the motions-- but trying to be obedient to God’s will at all times is the most beautiful thing a soul can do, and really the essence of the Christian vocation.

Drifting away, I understand that from your perspective that this is a turnoff. But once one starts to throw oneself into the faith, and tries to grow in their interior life, these many, ‘obligations’ cease being obligations and start to be done as acts of love. I can’t say why, but God has slowly done this to me-- when I was younger it used to pain me to sit through Mass, but now I’m coming back for daily Masses! It is difficult, but I pray that we all should try to follow God’s will always.

-Rob

 

[joecap]

OK, I just HAVE to chime in on this one, at the risk of coming off as a heretic…

I go to Mass because I want to, not because of any rule.
I go on Sundays, and I go on weekdays if I get a chance, and I wish I was retired so I could go every day.

I love my God, I long for Him, and I love going to Mass.

If a special trip came up for me, or went on a remote vacation that caused me to miss Mass, I would not consider that a grave sin.

I make every effort to go to Mass (again, because I want to, not have to), and in my opinion, an extenuating circumstance, such as a sick child, dangerously terrible weather, or being in a remote wilderness (which, being a nature boy, makes me glorify God) does not mean I am willfully turning away from God.

Of course I would confess it, but it is not what I would see as a Mortal Sin, no deliberate attempt to defy God.

 

[palmas85]

You are way out of line.

You don’t know me or my family or the reasons in which dispensation has been granted.

That is between my priest and my family.

I own a business. I have not taken a vacation in over ten years. I can’t take off Monday or Friday to extend a normal weekend. I can’t fly out of town or drive more than two hours away. Camping is our only outlet. My priest understands this. Twice a year, we are granted dispensation for the long holiday weekends. If you read my previous post, we organize a prayer service, using the readings for that Sunday. We don’t ignore God or his Commandments.

Think twice about making generalizations.

I didn’t make a generalization. I pointed out something that many people on this forum don’t seem to know, that attending Mass is not optional it is mandatory except for emergencies… If you feel offended I’m sorry. Prayer services are not the same as a Mass no matter how ecumenically minded you are and camping trips are not emergencies.

If the shoe doesn’t fit why get upset? After many many years in law enforcement I have learned several things about human nature. People who get extremely defensive when confronted with something do so often because they feel guilty deep down inside. It is in fact one of the things that we look for during interviews… It does not always prove guilt, not in any way, but it does enough times to be useful.

Just a question though if you don’t mind. If you can’t drive more than two hours away, whats the fuss? Drive in go to mass and drive back. Sounds pretty easy to me.

 

[az_4_faith]

I didn’t make a generalization. I pointed out something that many people on this forum don’t seem to know, that attending Mass is not optional it is mandatory except for emergencies… If you feel offended I’m sorry. Prayer services are not the same as a Mass no matter how ecumenically minded you are and camping trips are not emergencies.

If the shoe doesn’t fit why get upset? After many many years in law enforcement I have learned several things about human nature. People who get extremely defensive when confronted with something do so often because they feel guilty deep down inside. It is in fact one of the things that we look for during interviews… It does not always prove guilt, not in any way, but it does enough times to be useful.

Just a question though if you don’t mind. If you can’t drive more than two hours away, whats the fuss? Drive in go to mass and drive back. Sounds pretty easy to me.

Did you again miss the paragraph from the Catechism about dispensations?

Why do you feel the need to supercede the good judgment of my pastor?

 

[palmas85]

Did you again miss the paragraph from the Catechism about dispensations?

Why do you feel the need to supercede the good judgment of my pastor?

I am not superceding anything. I am offering an opinion. The fact that your pastor is obviously a very kind and understanding man, and apparently values feelings over principles in this case is between you him and God. You will never convince me that the desire for a three day getaway to go camping is a valid emergency that justifies missing Mass. I really can’t fathom why the camping trip is more important to you than attending Mass is.

 

[Toni]

Of course you can go camping! But wouldn’t you check first with your spouse about your intention? What if it was on a weekday; wouldn’t you check it first with your boss?
Isn’t God so much more important than one’s spouse or job commitments?
P.S. And I hope your priest wouldn’t be annoyed by something this “trivial”.

I agree! I have students that tell me that they never go to Mass when they are on vacation. We camped with 10 children in our family, every year for two weeks and never missed a Sunday Mass. Why is it that people think when they are on vacation they can forget about Mass?
I do understand that if there is no way to go dispensation can and should be given by a priest. NO PRIEST IS TO BUSY TO GIVE IT!

 

[Toni]

I think it’s ridiculous to have to ask a busy priest for permission to go camping. It’s absurd that we can’t be trusted to make this decision on our own. With all the troubles in the world, we need to ask to be excused from Mass to go on a camping trip with our family? This is such a turn off, I can’t tell you.

Does a child decide to drink beer or milk or do his parents make that decision? If we slide on missing Mass why don’t we just slide a little further uh lets see ex: I lie in my bed and tell God all my sins instead of going to confession. We can’t be cafeteria Catholics and pick and chose everything we like or dislike. Be a Catholic all the way. Not because it is law but because we love Christ and the Church!

 

[Sir_Knight]

If a special trip came up for me, or went on a remote vacation that caused me to miss Mass, I would not consider that a grave sin.

You are placing something before God. That is a grave matter.

I make every effort to go to Mass (again, because I want to, not have to), and in my opinion, an extenuating circumstance, such as a sick child, dangerously terrible weather, or being in a remote wilderness (which, being a nature boy, makes me glorify God) does not mean I am willfully turning away from God.

Caring for the sick, bad weather, etc.; is not the same thing as going on a vacation away from God.

Of course I would confess it, but it is not what I would see as a Mortal Sin, no deliberate attempt to defy God.

Why do you think that it is not a mortal sin when the church says that it is? Isn’t the church the final authority on these matters?

 

[Sir_Knight]

It’s absurd that we can’t be trusted to make this decision on our own.

We CAN make our own decisions but only the church can bind and loosen – not we.

With all the troubles in the world, we need to ask to be excused from Mass to go on a camping trip with our family?

If we wish to avoid a mortal sin which will land us in hell … the answer is ‘yes’.

This is such a turn off, I can’t tell you.

Nobody ever said that being a Catholic was easy – just that if we remain faithful to it’s teachings, we will make it to heaven.

 

[BobP123]

My priest gave my family and other families in our camping group (all faithful Catholics), a dispensation. No one was trying to “get out” of Mass.

He is within his authority to do so. He asked, he obliged.

Of course, we would not have gone had he not granted the dispensation.

See the Catechism:

2181 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor.[119] Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.

Still, one would think he would have AT LEAST asked you to say a few prayers together. I can’t see how that would be a problem.

 

[BobP123]

Did you again miss the paragraph from the Catechism about dispensations?

Why do you feel the need to supercede the good judgment of my pastor?

I’m starting to question your intentions of bringing all this up. Are you bragging that you got special dispensation or what? How are your ramblings and defensive measures going to help us get to heaven? How are you setting a good example? If I be you, I’d count my blessings and just move on.

Meet St. Ignore.

 

[drifting_away]

All I can say is, WOW